I have all of Professor Pat Patison's lecture videos from his Songwriting Course at Berkeley College of Music that he encouraged us to share liberally.
If Peter and moderators approve, I'll be happy to link to them.
I like the gift and craft song concept. We all need to move to Nashville though to be near the industry, so don't know if that is going to happen
When he was finishing up I half expected him to mention biab instead of Toontrack, felt like shouting at the monitor "you left out the best software of the lot"...lol
It would make for a good discussion though, what we all want from our song writing efforts, especially since a lot of us are not young, fame money, someone else to record our songs, or just doing it for the fun of doing so.
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Excellent stuff! Personally, I had only a couple of tunes that came out of nowhere and were instant #1s in Indie Radio as well as one of the sites that I frequent. One of them, I provided the lyrics with the music, the other, I just provided the music with a title of the song.
It is difficult to come up with something that 'mainstream' radio would consider worthy of airplay. Nonetheless, I am happy with my success (no too much money made, but that's not what it's all about!).
Some people force themselves to write good lyrics and they turn out not so good. I had one, I thought was a sure winner, and was turned down by one of my favorite singers in the UK - Maria Daines. The Lady who did finally do the song, was just fine. Notice the last two words?
Sometimes, a song lyric might be not really what the audience wants to hear. But, I tell you, folks: the way it's delivered by the vocalist makes ALL the difference in the world! So - don't forget about delivery of one of your projects you may think might not be worthy.
Cheers, Mike
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Forcing ones self to write lyrics is a good thing. I think that's the whole point of this February songwriting month thing that many folks do.
Let's equate song writing to anything else you want to do at a professional level. You can't just study and work your craft when you feel like it or when the muse hits. You will never be more than mediocre if you approach it like that. The very same principles apply to songwriting. Yet so many writers of songs take that very approach. They turn out one song a year and have a few that they started but never finished.
I guess it all depends on the goals you set for yourself. How badly do you want it?
Every professional songwriter I have ever met who had chart topping songs said that they set down to write every single day....and work at it for 6 to 8 hours. One of those guys had (at that time) around a dozen #1 songs and the other I'm referring to had 24 #1 country songs to his credit. Both said they have to push through the dry spells and force themselves to write.
Not only do you have to be writing, and writing a lot, you have to be learning and studying and working with other writers to sharpen your skills and hone your craft.
For many of us, we don't have the luxury or the option to spend several days and many hours writing songs. I'm one of those. I run a business and simply do not have the time. That's where my choices in life have taken me. I'm not complaining, because life is good. But writing songs to me is a fun hobby and a great release from the sometimes hectic pace of my daily life.
That said.... there's still an imperative that I operate under. I want to write music and lyrics to the best of my ability. I want to record the songs so they sound professional, again to the best of my ability. I want to help others by sharing what I have learned over the years. And if any of my music is ever received by the public as worthy to listen too, well that, my friends, is the icing on the proverbial cake.
As some of you are aware, some of the music I have written is being used in film & TV. While it's not exactly the same as having a country superstar belting out my song to millions of fans, it's still quite cool and quite a nice accomplishment. Set your goals, aim for the stars, and if you simply end up flying above the clouds for a time, it sure beats standing on the ground wondering what could have been.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I think the salient point Mr. Powell made was the proximity point. If you seek the brass ring, you must be where the brass rings are. NYC, L.A. Or Nashville.
Being a big fish in a little pond has it's charms, but true success can only come from jumping in the big pond and competing with the really big fish. Anything else is just delusion.
His "image ladder" would be a beneficial technique for even a-few-songs-a-year writers.
The fact that he - and his co-writers are now using loops (or whatever available tools) to write is interesting - part of the current trends... And that they sometimes find their way into the record...
Brilliant and heartfelt. Powerful look into his world. A couple of months ago I actually wrote a book and a bottle of gin line for a song that is in progress. Recently fj helped me flesh out that line with better imagery. It seems that these upper tier writers do, indeed, think alike!
Bud
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So here is a question I have. I know there are several schools of thought of lyrics. I think it depends on the song and the audience.
I mean, in pop, there are songs that have been HUGE hits (and not from 1 hit wonders) that don't even make sense!
Anyway, I think this may be where the craft side comes in a bit as well. Knowing when to use what.
Imagery, as with the examples he gave can be fantastic!
You can also loose relatability to your audience! You have to know what you are trying to do, no doubt.
As an example (very simple without very much imaginary), if you had lyrics that say...
"Do you remember when I held your hand down by the Duckabush River"
It is specific but may take the listener a bit out of the song because they lost you on the river having a specific name.
It would relate to people who maybe had the experience by that river. Pretty specific!
If you were to say instead...
"Do you remember when I held your hand down by the river"
It relates to anyone who held hands down by ANY river!
If you were to say instead...
"Do you remember when I held your hand down by the water"
It relates to anyone who held hands by a river, lake, ocean, lagoon, puddle...you name it.
It relates to A LOT more people!
And the thing is, people tend to fill in THEIR own imagery and really make the song their own. When the singer sings "Do you remember when I held your hand down by the water" the audience more than likely isn't think of the singer and their significant other down by the water. They are thinking of themselves! That can be very powerful!
If you are telling a story, imagery can be whatever you want it to be.
If you are trying to relate, sometimes "vague specifics" work well.
If you are writing pop, sometimes the right vowel sound is enough! Sad, but true!
So which is "right?" It all depends.
Just my thoughts, I would be curious every one else?
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Floyd or the video. I am agreeing! There are also other techniques.
Man, I feel I'm going to get jumped on for this post!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 02/02/1606:53 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
"Do you remember when I held your hand down by the river"
It relates to anyone who held hands down by ANY river!
If you were to say instead...
"Do you remember when I held your hand down by the water"
It relates to anyone who held hands by a river, lake, ocean, lagoon, puddle...you name it.
It relates to A LOT more people!
And the thing is, people tend to fill in THEIR own imagery and really make the song their own. When the singer sings "Do you remember when I held your hand down by the water" the audience more than likely isn't think of the singer and their significant other down by the water. They are thinking of themselves! That can be very powerful!
If you are telling a story, imagery can be whatever you want it to be.
If you are trying to relate, sometimes "vague specifics" work well.
If you are writing pop, sometimes the right vowel sound is enough! Sad, but true!
So which is "right?" It all depends.
Just my thoughts, I would be curious every one else?
To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Floyd or the video. I am agreeing! There are also other techniques.
Man, I feel I'm going to get jumped on for this post!
"water" will mean nothing to most people, whereas a river can conjure up a lot more imaginary, a living dynamic fast moving, full of life, dangerous, you name it entity in my opinion.
"Way down upon the Swanee River" Old Folks at Home the song in question I believe.
Originally Posted By: 90 dB
Being a big fish in a little pond has it's charms, but true success can only come from jumping in the big pond and competing with the really big fish. Anything else is just delusion.
Probably comes a time in a persons life when its safer to stay in small pond at least for me, who wants aiming for the big time or taking big risks or chances when nearing sixty?
Windows 10 (64bit) M-Audio Fast Track Pro, Band in a Box 2025, Cubase 14, Cakewalk and far too many VST plugins that I probably don't need or will ever use
If you are telling a story, imagery can be whatever you want it to be.
If you are trying to relate, sometimes "vague specifics" work well.
Universal Lyrics.... that's what they're called. They tell a story but they omit any specifics that lock the song into a narrow area, whether it's a person or geographic in nature.
" I met Linda down by the Swanee river..." might be a great line in your song and mean something to you, but Betty, Carol, and Susan might have a harder time relating to it as well as their boyfriends.
Writing specifics is OK for artists.... Chesney wrote quite a few songs about Mary. Buffett wrote about a specific town called Margarittaville.... well maybe that one was in his head..... or bottle as the case might be.
But...getting back to Universal lyrics.... if you are writing for film and TV you absolutely must be writing using universal lyrics. Being specific with names of people, towns, places, cars, stores, whatever, immediately limits your song to a very, very narrow possibility of ever being used. If you're singing about Mary, and the leading lady in the film is Joan, nope... can't use that song about Mary. If you're writing about how great a town New York City is, sorry, the movie is set in Dallas Texas and that song won't work.
Universal lyrics, when properly written, can easily conjure up a personal story in the listener's mind which allows him or her to insert themselves into that song's story line.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with being very specific in a song. Hit songs are written and sung that fit that form all the time.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
John Prine seemed to do well with specifics. Of course he could do well with anything he wrote being one of the all time greatest writers.
"And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County"
"Well, sometimes we'd travel right down the Green River To the abandoned old prison down by Airdrie Hill"
(Lines are from Paradise for any reader who just entered our solar system)
I remember folks frequently musing over the meaning of "Airdrie." Some folks sung it as "a grey hill."
FWIW and IMHO, I think the name of the county, the name of the river and the name of the hill added to lyric. But who the heck am I, a mere mortal, to critique a Prine tune
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
A financially successful (read very wealthy) commercial artist friend said "It is more in what you do NOT paint (say)!" He cited Charles Schultz, Peanuts, where he doesn't even connect the lines. In songwriting, it may be prudent to not underestimate the powers of the human imagination. I'm certainly not downplaying the importance of imagery, just adding another way to view it. Cognizance IS reality!
Reading British Folk singer, Kate Rusby's bio moments ago, she's noted for beautifully interpreting the unwritten and unwriteable nuances of a song. Very few have that gift.
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