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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55 |
I assume I'm not the first person to have asked for this... I am a longtime BB user (more upgrader than user), since long before the DAW plugin was born. I upgrade each year, tempted by the new features. Each year I try the DAW plugin again... and every year I give up, either because it refuses to work, lacks the useful songwriting features I like in the main program (especially Ctrl + Enter to insert the last chord played on your MIDI keyboard) or because it's so clunky that songwriting inspiration grinds to a halt in technical frustration. So I give up with the plugin for another year because, for me thus far, it is a guaranteed workflow killer! Now, I do know that the plugin works for other users and I would like it to work for me too. So I am asking for a video tutorial of all its functions for the CURRENT latest version. I am astonished that PG doesn't provide a new version of this each year, when the features are upgraded and their implementation is changed (e.g. multiriffs). Surely, every BB purchaser will use the plugin for a first time - and they will be using the latest version they have just bought. My current DAW is Studio One. I can watch a video made in 2019 of the very basics of using the DAW plugin in that version. I can watch a series of new features videos for different years, many of whose 'new' features have been replaced by newer ways of doing things... Who can be bothered to sift through all that outdated information to try to piece together all the current features? Not me. Especially when I have to wade through demos of the latest jazz and oompah styles. I know there are many BB users who use the program for backing tracks to practise guitar or other instruments. But what attracted me to BB was its potential for use in songwriting. I think PG could better address the songwriter market, especially with annually updated video (and written) tutorials of both the main BB program and the DAW plugin. I would particularly like to see this in the form of an accessible songwriting workflow. (There are some videos on Youtube which attempt to do this but these are on outdated versions and are often rambling and time-wasting. I want to assimilate the workflow quickly and spend more of my time writing songs than sifting through unsatisfcatory videos.) The multiple functions of BB and the DAW plugin all make sense to the PG staff who have developed them over the years. And to the people who live on this forum and have assimilated every new feature on its arrival over the decades. But, from the outside, most of the features under the hood are hidden and trying to find them - and get them to work - will bring the song you're working on to a screeching halt (in my experience). Using the main BB program alongside Studio One, open at the same time, has its own problems with tedious driver conflicts so I would much prefer to work within my DAW and the BB plugin. BB for songwriters now has a lot more competition out there, from the likes of Scaler 2 and EZ Keys 2 (launched today). Like BIAB, Scaler's many features can seem impenetrable to the outsider but they have recently released a very comprehensive and accessible video course. The launch of EZ Keys 2 was preceded by a series of excellent, accessible video tutorials, including its many songwriting features. I suggest PG takes a look at how the competition does it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMtEI9cW3dk&list=PLo2KHWmTuFk41LFpNbobyR_I3z1fJn4mb&index=5&t=2shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0K13pzuHe8&t=14shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M044QqUvwuY&t=43shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMxfeMJg66Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjKMAkI0hvMSo... please make a full tutorial for the latest version of the DAW plugin and another for the main program, focusing on songwriting workflow. And please make a new version every year. Surely PG has new customers every year (or at leasts wants them) in addition to the old timers who upgrade annually and already know everything? Thank you.
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,359
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+1 supporting the request to annually produce a how-to-use DAW PlugIn video tutorial of all its functions for the CURRENT latest version.
I don't remember many requests for PlugIn video tutorials so I'm very glad to support that part of your suggestion.
The part about biasing the tutorial to feature using the DAW PlugIn while songwriting I'm not so sure about. I don't want to assume everyone uses BiaB and the PlugIn in the same manner while songwriting.
I also disagree with using Scaler and EZKeys 2 as examples although the comparison is often made in forum conversations. I believe their workflow is so simple because both programs rely on midi patterns. BiaB's use of RealTrack audio phrases add a layer of complexity neither program can match at this time.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1113) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55 |
Thanks Jim.
My reference to Scaler 2 and EZ Keys 2 was for the clarity of their (always up to date) tutorial videos which make their features easily accessible so they can be incorporated into a writing workflow.
I do feel that the potential of BIAB for songwriting is not fully exploited by PG. As I mentioned above, I know that plenty of BIAB users have it for making backing tracks to play along to on guitar.
But one of the problems I have with existing tutorials is when they get to the point of entering your chords on the chord sheet... and voila, they're instantly there! That's OK when you're copying in chords from an existing song to develop your guitar chops but, in songwriting, you are working out a chord progression through trial and error. That's what I have always used BIAB for. The main program allows me to experiment with different styles and chords without rendering and using up hard drive space.
The main BIAB program is very good at this, especially with its Ctrl + Enter to insert the last chord you played on your MIDI keyboard. I often don't know what that chord is and BB very kindly tells me. I have asked for that function to be included in the plugin but I don't think it's there yet.
As I understand it, the plugin should be very helpful in enabling you to develop a chord progression and arrangement within your DAW. My previous attempts using it having always run into problems where it proves clunky and inferior to the main program so I give up with it for another year. I am sure it has great features, which make perfect sense to the PG boffins and forum regulars but they could be made more accessible to the rest of us.
Workflow is everything in song creation.
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,359
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Lazarus, Thank you for your response. I don't claim to be a songwriter so please forgive my ignorance and questions. Workflow is everything in song creation. Assuming your statement is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) one question that immediately came to mind is why muddy the song creation workflow by using two tools, Studio One DAW and Band-in-a-Box PlugIn, when you can use a single tool, Band-in-a-Box? PG Music has stated the PlugIn will ALWAYS have a limited feature set as compared to the main program. That's why I agree with you that an annual video demonstrating all the PlugIn features available for a specific year is a good idea. The feature set, though limited, changes every year. I believe a video tutorial demonstrating all features for each year is doable considering the PlugIn has a limited set of features. I hope you will share an overview of your song creation workflow and perhaps mention how each of the tools you've already mentioned fit into your workflow. As I understand it, the plugin should be very helpful in enabling you to develop a chord progression and arrangement within your DAW. I suspect your belief maybe more of a hope and not grounded in fact. (I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm responding to your comment). PG Music has compared using the PlugIn to supplement an existing arrangement with backing tracks when session musicians may not be available (like during the weekend or after the session musician have left. I'm not aware of PG Music stating the PlugIn is VERY helpful (my emphasis) to develop a chord progression and arrangement in the DAW. My understanding is the song should be relatively stable by the time you're using the PlugIn in a DAW.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1113) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 55 |
Hello Jim,
In answer to your question about workflow and why I don't use just BIAB without a a DAW...
I generally like to work out a chord progression as the starting point for a song but that may be a just a verse or chorus first before starting to add lyrics and melody. So I'm going back later to work out the chords for the bridge, probably after the lyric, chords and melody for verses and chorus (and probably pre-chorus) are on tracks in my DAW.
I'm also experimenting with different styles. BIAB is good for experimenting with chords and styles. Not for vocals which need to be recorded and edited in my DAW (with Melodyne Studio and various FX). I also supplement the arrangement with other instruments in the DAW. The new EZ Keys 2 (just out) is very user-friendly for a songwriter. I use many other UJAM, Toontrack and Kontakt instruments.
Even when I have chords and basic backing tracks for all sections of the song, I often need to change tempo and sometimes key (for vocals). If I'm using audio dragged in from BIAB, that means I need to redo tempo/key in BIAB and drag it in again. This is a drag because by then I will have edited the BB audio tracks (e.g. muting sections and automating volume changes).
It would be so much easier if BIAB (as I like to use it) was inside my DAW (as I assumed the DAW plugin was supposed to be). Editing as you go would provide a better workflow.
All the vocal comping, editing, mixing and mastering needs to be done in the DAW with plugins like Melodyne and Ozone. So I can't dispense with my DAW. Using BIAB and my DAW side by side often leads to driver problems, which are another workflow killer. Going back and forth between the two is not convenient.
I find all the rendering in the plugin really tiresome compared to the BIAB program which doesn't need it. The highlighted chords in the plugin are out of sync with the dragged in audio tracks and I waste time trying to sort that out. The DAW plugin seems to be a neutered version of the real thing.
I had assumed this was because I have not yet fathomed all the features of the plugin. But you may be right that its actual functionality is too limited for songwriting. I haven't even been able to use it for multiriffs or adding a single realtrack. Maybe with an up to date tutorial video of the latest version, I could at least do that.
I still feel that, after all these years, PG does not make BIAB as user-friendly for songwriters as it could be. I wonder if there are any songwriters on the PG team who could share their workflow, especially with the DAW plugin?
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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I definitely endorse this request.
The samples you referred to are high-class and very focused. Concise, clear examples of each feature.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I want a video that shows me how to ....
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,359 |
Lazarus,
Thanks for your responses. As mentioned earlier I think the idea of an annual video demonstrating all the plugin features is a great idea.
I hope your second response about your workflow will provide PG Music with some useful feedback.
Jim Fogle - 2024 BiaB (1113) RB (5) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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