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Eddie - for piano Open Biab, click on Country Classic (249) scroll down the centre list until you hit ACBALLAD.STY. That is where the midi styles start - from there on down you will find lots of piano. Highlight one style at a time. Lots of midi piano. Ian 
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What i do eddie, is once the song is needing a good piano track, i go in the style picker and look for styles that are targeted at certain types of music, like country that suggests the style of music i want, and i change the style to that. In RB it won't regenerate the song, but allow you to generate a new track of Piano.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
What i do eddie, is once the song is needing a good piano track, i go in the style picker and look for styles that are targeted at certain types of music, like country that suggests the style of music i want, and i change the style to that. In RB it won't regenerate the song, but allow you to generate a new track of Piano.
When you go from that angle Rob, do you then switch BACK to the style you were using? I have this one set for a country shuffle kind of style and it is perfect (the project is I Fall To Pieces and I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You intertwined into one song). I just don't have a lot of Real Track piano options.
Now with Ian's reply, I don't understand why I would open BIAB. Does it work in tandem where I can find instruments in BIAB and use them in RB? My perceptions is that BIAB and RB are two different processes and only related by marriage...
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Hi Eddie
Using BIAB is the workflow I've developed since before RB existed.
BIAB is my sketch pad.
I just find it easier to preview styles in BIAB with my own chords entered.
It's the same style sheet - I was trying to draw your attention to the fact that the all midi styles have great piano rhythm tracks. Do it in RB or BIAB? Whichever is easier for you.
Yes they are meant to work in tandem - can't say for sure, but generally as I read, people set their song up in BIAB and then export it to RB to do heavy editing and mixing - at least that's how I use it. Primarily because the Chord View window is so powerful in BIAB.
Ian
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So Ian, you do the framework in BIAB and then move it to RB? Is that correct?
This thing last night was the 2nd or 3rd time I have started with a blank canvas in RB so it is still a little sketchy for me about what I can and can't do.
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Re-read my previous post - I tried to clarify things.
But yes I do my framework in the BIAB Chord Window. Search for a style first then I put in the chords.
Adjust tempo, choose RTs - very powerful the Chord Window in BIAB.
Starting with a blank canvas in BIAB is probably easier - at least from my point of view.
Ian
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Ian, who cares? If you’d like a piano in the piece then use it!
I know that you are trying to emulate today’s country sound but my thoughts are that if it sounds good then it is good regardless of instrumentation. I think some of your songs would sound great with a little Floyd Cramer in there.
PS – I had a very busy day yesterday. Thus I didn’t get to your song. I’ll probably get to it Tuesday.
When I was young I was poor. But after years of hard, honest, and painstaking work I am no longer young.
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No need to change the style back unless you need to regenerate something you do not have finished. RB does not follow the style unless you tell it to.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Quote:
Ian, who cares? If you’d like a piano in the piece then use it!
I know that you are trying to emulate today’s country sound but my thoughts are that if it sounds good then it is good regardless of instrumentation. I think some of your songs would sound great with a little Floyd Cramer in there.
PS – I had a very busy day yesterday. Thus I didn’t get to your song. I’ll probably get to it Tuesday.
Ditto trust your ear . . . when it comes to instrumentation, especially just one i.e. a paino, my bet is that it will be a lot better than most of your audience.
Later,
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Quote:
Guess maybe the piano doesn't have the edge for today's country rock. Whereas I can hear where the Hammond might - edginess, power.
Ian
Ian:
The only instrument I play is the piano, but I haven't played an acoustic piano for some time - just digital. So I'll make a few comments as to why I think the piano isn't used and what might rectify it.
1) For a group to use a piano, they likely need a regular pianist, and most groups do some traveling.
2) Many (most) venues don't have a suitable acoustic piano (the real kind); the venues often tend to be arenas. In fact I've never seen a piano in an arena anywhere near where I live.
3) Traveling with an acoustic piano is close to impossible for a mobile group - it's heavy and the constant moving requires constant tuning which means a technician is required on a regular basis. This isn't going to happen.
4) The remaining option is a digital piano, and frankly the onboard sounds of a digital are not where it's at to use an old-fashioned term. They not only don't sound realistic at all, it's very difficult to get a piano sound that will cut through the mix without being too loud.
On Monday last, we went out for family birthday dinner, and there was a pretty good singer accompanied by a pretty darn good jazz pianist. Sadly the poor sucker was using a keyboard with Roland's famous thin artificial sound (insert Yamaha, Korg, whatever as you wish - I happen to have a Roland). I gave up on the onboard sounds of digital piano several years ago and use a physically modeled piano. At my disposal are so many sounds that it would make a digital piano run away in shame; and the sounds kick butt. The next version is going to turn some heads and make conversions (it's due out soon).
A frequent question is "how can I get the piano to cut through the mix?" In a few minutes, I can tweak a sound that will cut through a steel door and then save it as a drop-down preset. There are also dozens of ready-to-go presets including electrics, marimba, vibes, etc. (all percussion).
Every preset is available with one mouse click, and any two presets are visible and available onscreen.
The setup for traveling requires a reasonably good laptop, and any decent keyboard. Today's upper end laptops are being used extensively for gigs (you all know this), and appear to be quite stable (not going to start a Windows/Apple debate here - they both work).
The footprint on my seven year old dual core HDD is 24.81 MB (not GB as in samples), and it will easily keep up with only 7 ms of latency. Since the program resides in RAM, HDD speed isn't a factor.
I can't say for sure why piano isn't used more in modern country, but lack of knowledge about the options that are now available may be part of it. In the past, the "standard" for computer piano sounds has been recorded samples, (the latest Ivory II requires 77 GB just to contain the samples and requires a fast HDD). Also, one can't tweak the sound very much with samples. With my "piano", I can change tunings in an instant for example.
If you have a midi file you would like to hear rendered to a particular sound, let me know. I can convert it to a wave track in a few minutes and post it on my box.net account.
Glenn
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Thanks Glenn for the input - good assessment. Nashville tends to be streaky or formulaic if you prefer - guess piano is on the down-turn right now. Even though piano could be well mixed in the recording studio, re-creating a "sound" on stage is not always easy. But what the heck, does the audience really know the difference in a digital piano "riff" or a true wooden upright. Mario, Danny - I agree - my songs, my "sound". What I am aiming at as a member of Taxi.com, is making sure that my tunes sound like what the song listings are asking for . . . . usually they specify wanting the song style to sound like OR a la whoever artist. Otherwise the song gets rejected because its sound is not on target. It's all hit and miss, but if the song is not on target, submitting a song becomes an exercise in futility . . . and with the creeping years, can I afford futility??   Enjoy your weekend. Ian
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Quote:
Thanks Glenn for the input - good assessment.
Nashville tends to be streaky or formulaic if you prefer - guess piano is on the down-turn
right now. Even though piano could be well mixed in the recording studio, re-creating a "sound"
on stage is not always easy. But what the heck, does the audience really know the difference
in a digital piano "riff" or a true wooden upright.
Enjoy your weekend. Ian
Ian:
The audience may not know the difference between a digital or acoustic piano sound, but the piano sound must be able to cut through in the mix without being overbearing.
Perhaps some of the others here that are more involved and experienced than I with mixing and keeping the instruments separate, can offer some constructive comments.
Glenn
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I know it to be the case that a modern MIDI sampled piano can do a much better job of fitting into the amplified band mix than attempts to use an acoustic piano, which is pretty much going to be a Helpinstill pickup, a flyswatter or nothing. Hexk, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of what we hear even from studio recordings these days may just be coming from the same source. Relax, while the prominence of piano in country music may not be as prolific as at one time, there are still pianos to be heard on the country stations. This thread got me to turn and listen for a bit. Onstage, today's digital pianos can certainly hold their own in these settings, actually, the sampled piano often is an easier mixfit from house to house. We're not talking world-class classical pianists here. Anyway, what I heard on the local country FM station in about an hour's time: Toby Keith -- A Little Less Talk - and Toby seems to use the piano in quite a few of his numbers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXaz7oGwcXo Sara Evans -- I Get a Little Bit Stronger - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m8GSnIkxPM Brooks and Dunn -- Who, by he way, auctioned off the Kurzweil 88 used on their last tour on ebay, complete with a road-damaged corner and their autographs on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw4lRXL_nXE Brad Paisley still shows up with a pianist, typically running TWO or more MIDI decks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MapIaiWbOk&feature=related And I heard LOTS of simply awesome Hammond organ work on the songs that didn't have the piano up front. While the piano style has evolved, it has certainly not been neglected. And in live performances, the digital keyboard is the new king of the hill. --Mac
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Finally found use of a real live acoustic grand onstage with a country act. Martina McBride -- Don't Stop Believin' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v81JWh-50fk Sounds like her pianist got to enjoy a Yamaha C1 with the prerequisite Helpinstill stereo pickup in it. A distinctive sound if you have ever gotten to know it. But is that country or is that rock? Gettin' hard to delineate, these days... --Mac
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Well on this one, since it is a Journey cover, this one is rock. Martina is one of the real crossover artists anyway.
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Eddie, you were asking about style usage in RB. One of the most overlooked parts of RB is the use of the styles. First, RB only generates what you specifically tell it to do, it doesn't regenerate every time you hit play like Biab does. Second, you can use a hundred different styles on ten different places on ten different tracks. As long as you don't tell RB to generate something new on one of those tracks, it will stay forever or until your HD dies. That is the really big deal about RB. Say you only want some piano backing to start on bar 42 through 60. Pick the style, highlight those bars, right click on the track, click the midi instrument "piano". It's done in like two seconds. Go down that same track to the next place you want some piano and do it again but maybe try some different styles. I've auditioned 4 or 5 styles on the same track that way. Or, since it goes so fast anyway and you have 48 tracks to play with do the piano for an entire track, then go to the next track down and so on until you're tired of creating new piano tracks with different styles. It still only takes a few seconds even for an entire track. Play the song with all but one of those piano tracks muted and then play with muting/unmuting them until you finally hear something you like in different sections of your song. Midi generates so fast, who cares and you just go up to the Track menu and delete the data if you don't want to look at what you decided not to use.
This is where RB has it all over Biab. Biab can't touch this functionality.
Bob
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Quote:
Say you only want some piano backing to start on bar 42 through 60. Pick the style, highlight those bars, right click on the track, click the midi instrument "piano". It's done in like two seconds. Go down that same track to the next place you want some piano and do it again but maybe try some different styles. I've auditioned 4 or 5 styles on the same track that way. Or, since it goes so fast anyway and you have 48 tracks to play with do the piano for an entire track, then go to the next track down and so on until you're tired of creating new piano tracks with different styles. It still only takes a few seconds even for an entire track. Play the song with all but one of those piano tracks muted and then play with muting/unmuting them until you finally hear something you like in different sections of your song. Midi generates so fast, who cares and you just go up to the Track menu and delete the data if you don't want to look at what you decided not to use.
Different STYLE or different REAL TRACK?
If my style is set to BOBSCNTRYSHUF and all my instruments are there but I don't like the piano, you want me to change STYLE or REAL TRACK for that one track?
My original issue was that the pianos are such slim pickin's. There is some god awful Rhodes stuff and a few tinkle pianos when I look at the options for instrument selection when I say "GENERATE TRACK." And they are all named like "pop accompany" or "dreamy jazz". When I go through them, there is not much to choose from. Then Iam posted about BIAB even though I use RB amd that made me even more confused. Are the Real Track sounds not availble to both programs or will I find more pianos in BIAB than RT?
The thing for me is I would like to have a piano that the only way to describe it is "kickass like Roadhouse Blues" that I can create a solo from.
One of my songs I wanted some mild piano background and I ended up playing it in myself because none of the Real Tracks gave me anything I could use.
I also note you said "click the MIDI instrument piano", but I want audio tracks so I don't have to mess with soft synths at all. Did I read what you said and interpret it wrong?
Edit to ask you this question. You said
Quote:
Go down that same track to the next place you want some piano and do it again but maybe try some different styles.
but if I change the style won't it change my drums and everything, or will it apply multiple styles to different tracks in teh same song depending on what style I select PER TRACK?
Last edited by eddie1261; 09/05/11 05:29 PM.
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Eddie - I have never tried to use RB the way Bob suggests but I will. Did you ever start with BIAB, Eddie? Have you used it at all? Quote:
Are the Real Track sounds not available to both programs or will I find more pianos in BIAB than RT?
Yes RT sounds and Styles with RTs are available to both programs.
You will not find RT Pianos to do what you want with the Piano - the RTs have not been created yet.
But if you turn to the "All Midi" styles which have only use Midi voices (usually designated M1 in the info about the style sheet) you will probably find a suitable Midi track.
- but you will have to convert it to audio.
Set up a test SEQ and do what Bob suggests with differing midi styles. If you create a good Midi piano track then RB allows you to convert Midi to Audio.
Quote:
but if I change the style won't it change my drums and everything, or will it apply multiple styles to different tracks in teh same song depending on what style I select PER TRACK?
This is what worries me because I have not tried it. I'm not sure whether or not you have to go and change all BB tracks to normal tracks. Bob?
Do you want to start a new thread, Eddie? Getting kinda long.
Cheers - Ian
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Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
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