|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
OK, new thread. As you recall in our last episode, the following exchange was made: Quote:
Quote:
... and the water goes a different direction when you flush the toilet, ...
Actually, the direction that water spins when going down a drain is up to chance. It can take either clockwise or counterclockwise direction, independent of whether or not you happen to be in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/scitech/mysteries/coriolis.html
--Mac
I think the key point in the article was this:
Quote:
It all depends upon how the water was introduced and the geometric structure of the drain.
All that means is that specific physical considerations can override the coreolis effect, which is weak. But I contend that in the absence of assignable cause, the rule is generally true as stated.
So here's a test: I'm asking everybody to notice which way the water flows next time you flush the toilet. Then report back to this thread. Due to the existence of design elements that can influence the direction, we won't have 100% consistency... but I'm looking for a trend. True randomness should produce a 50-50 result.
but results skewed in one direction or the other, even if not 100%, would indicate there's something at work overriding randomness..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296 |
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.htmlYou're likely going to need a few thousand tests to get any significant statistical results. In any event, even the slightest non-symmetrical shape or the slightest unobservable convection currents in the water will determine how the water moves - think of the "butterfly effect". I guess what I'm saying is (I'm an applied scientist - structural engineer), and while I firmly believe the theory is correct, a hands on test that is not strictly controlled in a lab but done in one's bathroom or kitchen sink DOES NOT adhere to good scientific protocol for testing, and may be even more meaningless than many of the tests done by the pharmaceutical industry these days to prove their drugs are effective and safe. OK, I've opened up another even larger can of worms, but can anyone NOT think of a recent class action lawsuit against a pharmaceutical company? The first one I recall was against thalidomide (mid sixties). Glenn
Last edited by Glenn Kolot; 10/07/11 09:31 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Awww, you're no fun Glenn
I think the complexity of pharmaceutical studies where innumerable physiological variants and genetic predispositons come into play with the chemicals is not a good comparison to the toilet flush (where the variables are toilet shape/flow, gravity, water)
I recall a statistical experiment from school in which 10 dimes were tossed 100 times, and the results (how many heads, how many tails) were charted on a graph. Well before the 100 tosses were complete, the bell shaped curve began to form. Subsequent tosses only made the same results into a larger bell.
Sinks are clearly influenced by all sorts of shapes and configurations... but toilets are pretty generic. My toilet drains in a counter clockwise direction when flushed. Every time. Brand is Kohler. (different brands may have different shapes which could influence the flow)
humor me. Which direction does your toilet drain, and what brand is it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,345
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,345 |
I've done the test, several times. The direction of flow is DOWN.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,705 |
Pat you have way toooooo much time on their hands.  Later,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,095 |
I will bite, Patt, I have always thought that they went clockwise here, but this morning i noticed it to be counter-clockwise, for both of our bathrooms.
That was with nothing in them, i will report back the result with, well let's say obstructions!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Any reports here would not be enough of a sample to be statistaclly significant.
And this has actually been done before, including thousands if not hundreds of thousands of reports.
That particular survey only proved what I originally stated.
The water can rotate in either direction and the statistical results indicate the situation to be more one of random chance than any other phenomenon.
As for mentioning the strength of a particular force that might or might not be affecting the water circulation direction, well, water is a rather dense chunk of matter and it would take quite a lot of energy to actually change its direction...
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,818
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,818 |
But if the tube the water comes out of is pitched, the weight will be heavier on one side and influence the direction of flow. Being in construction, if the water went clockwise I would want to know if the toilet was out of level with the right side lower than the left.. and vice versa. As Pat mentioned, I also think brand (and model) would be a factor. American Standard here (2) both clockwise when viewed from above. I'll have to get out the level later. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,095
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,095 |
After a weekend of family reunion type meals there can be some rather powerful forces involved there Macster!
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
But if the tube the water comes out of is pitched, the weight will be heavier on one side and influence the direction of flow.
Being in construction, if the water went clockwise I would want to know if the toilet was out of level with the right side lower than the left.. and vice versa.
As Pat mentioned, I also think brand (and model) would be a factor. American Standard here (2) both clockwise when viewed from above. I'll have to get out the level later.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The symmetry of toilets is such that I think there would be very little vaning effect from the surface, and even minimal from the water flowing into the bowl.
However, two things I'd expect to make a notable difference are :
1) the level of the toilet (If it aint level, then the water exits at some angle)
Thanks Bob, for pointing that out. That's an easy one to check.
2) and the random direction the plumber chose to orient the trap. Water molecules are cohesive, so if the water takes a turn anywhere in the process of exiting the premises, the molecular cohesion could exert an influence on everything coming behind it.
Now I'm tempted to tear out the ceiling under the bathrooms to see if the orientation of the trap coincides with the rotation of the water in that toilet.
(apparently I *DO* have too much time on my hands... but hey, its Saturday)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
I've done the test, several times. The direction of flow is DOWN.
heh heh... OK, you win the award for most unexpected but most appropriate reply.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Is this from that famous book "I Have WAY Too Much Time On My Hands"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
Any reports here would not be enough of a sample to be statistaclly significant.
And this has actually been done before, including thousands if not hundreds of thousands of reports.
That particular survey only proved what I originally stated.
The water can rotate in either direction and the statistical results indicate the situation to be more one of random chance than any other phenomenon.
As for mentioning the strength of a particular force that might or might not be affecting the water circulation direction, well, water is a rather dense chunk of matter and it would take quite a lot of energy to actually change its direction...
--Mac
Mac,
you're preaching to the choir. I already knew that all toilets in a hemisphere don't really flush the same direction. I expect nearly everybody who's spent much time online knows, as that information gets circulated by email quite often. I reference it in a forum of friends not for the purpose of making an empirically correct statement, but because internet truisms are amusing (especially when I figure everybody else already gets the joke)
For future reference, when what I'm saying comes across as the words of a pompous know-it-all who's just wrong, you can bet its spoken with tongue planted firmly in cheek. It's my nature to kick goofy ideas around for fun.
I'm just curious to hear how the evidence manifests in a random cross section of toilets around the world. I know it doesn't meet the requirements of a statistically valid test. I just want to see how the results shake down.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,818
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,818 |
I don't know about your toilet, but here the water is already started to cascade down the side of the toilet in the direction it will spin before it fills enough to let go, so I doubt the exit path comes in to play.. I'm sticking with manufacturer/model and whether the bowl/tank are level as my hunches.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 297
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 297 |
I have a policy of never, ever looking.
- Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 349 |
Probably depends on whether your toilet is right handed or left handed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
Quote:
I have a policy of never, ever looking.
I'll bet whoever cleans the floor around your toilet really hates that job
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,074 |
OK, my wife thinks I'm nuts as I go to each bathroom and waste water watching what happens with each flush.
Best ones for comparison are two toilets on opposite sides of a partition. One flushes in a clockwise direction, the other in a counter clockwise direction.
Neither toilet is level... but they are both slanted in the same direction, which doesn't account for the water exiting in opposite directions.
The ceiling under the bathrooms is the suspended type with removable panels. I opened 'er up to check out the pipes.
A main line comes between them, and an angled leg shoots off to each toilet (opposite directions from the trunk)
The water exits both toilets in the direction that is heading toward the angled drain pipe's opening.
However
the water that gets squirted into the bowl *IS* coming in at an angle, and in both cases the water swirls in that direction.
So in my mind the conclusion is crystal clear.
Spooks.
What else could it be?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,039
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,039 |
Counter-clockwise here when "free" enough to drain properly. That plunger has been a lifesaver! Trax 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2024 Italian for Mac is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Mac Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK & 7, Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Mac® is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6 & 7, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, et bien plus encore!
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums65
Topics83,127
Posts753,970
Members39,011
| |
Most Online2,537
Jan 19th, 2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean