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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 191
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 191 |
Hi everyone, A quick post here for now. I teach piano and singing and your son will definitely benefit and improve with a weighted touch keyboard. At least 76 but preferably 88.(and most importantly a teacher who will relate to your son and the music he likes to play) The lighter keyboards are a way for parents to see if their kids are going to keep on with piano lessons without having to outlay a lot but they really don't help with technique etc and they run out of keys really fast. But if you want a good keyboard that will last it's going to cost. I bought myself a Roland 300GX digital piano on sale a couple of years ago for $2000.(it was $3000!).It's 88 keys,weighted but needs speakers.(Roland Cubes).It has USB connection, MIDI in and out and a built in MIDI file and wav player. Best of all I can load my BIAB backing tracks on a USB stick for myself or piano students to play along with and have BIAB backing tracks for my singers to sing along with. I love it! I'd check out music stores for sales or look out for a good used keyboard. Yamaha, Roland, Casio, they're getting better all the time. I have also heard good things about the Privia but haven't checked one out for myself. (I'm just an old Roland person from the D50 days). All the best of luck! 
yjoh
[i]Music...a joy for life.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 708
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
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I encountered three problem when choosing an inexpensive keyboard that has weighted keys.
Firstly there is no standard for the terminology that the various manufactures use. A weighted feel can be achieved by an electro mechanical means (like the Yamaha CP series graded hammer keyboards) or by a purely electronic means and they are all described as weighted.
Secondly it can be difficult to really test a keyboard and tell immediately what the feel is like. You can convince yourself that a certain model is better but I found it hard to retain a measure of feel when moving from one demo to the next. Only when I got a keyboard home and played for an hour did I really understand the feel. It would be even harder for a beginner who cannot play at all. A professional would no doubt be able to tell much quicker but then they don't need this forum's advice.
Thirdly some people, seem to be perfectly happy with a less than true weighted keyboard but you need to measure their advice against your own situation. If you have learned on an acoustic piano or you may want to play one in the future or if you want to play the keyboard like a piano rather then playing chords on a synth then you will definitely be disappointed with anything less than true weighted.
As a crude screening method, I suggest that if you want a true weighted experience then be suspicious of any new 88 note keyboard that costs much less than $1000 and weighs less than 40lb. You will also need to sacrifice lots of fancy features and multi sounds that you will probably never use and the keyboard may not have speakers because, in my opinion, feel is by far the most important feature of a keyboard.
Tony
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,334 |
I am not a keyboardist or pianist...
But, what about the "M-Audio ProKeys 88" - 88-Key Graded Hammer-Action Premium Stage Piano? It is cheap, I think.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 311
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 311 |
I would also recommend Casio PX330 or PX3 as excellent choice as they both have fully weighted hammer action keyboards. I am a professional pianist brought up on real acoustic pianos and can say that these reasonably-priced Casio models are surprisingly good to play and close to a genuine grand piano action. The Casio WK7500 (I think that's the correct model number) is fantastic with excellent sounds and features but it does not have a keyboard action for serious piano playing. The PX-3 is more of a stage piano and does not have built-in speakers or auto-accompaniment features. The PX330, on the other hand, does have built-in speakers and can do auto-accompaniments. The acoustic pianos sounds are excellent and electric pianos pretty good although some of the many other sounds included are variable. The speakers on the PX330 are small and amplification is quite basic so it sounds much better through larger speakers.
I have a PX-3 and it is brilliant to have a fine gigging piano with proper 88-note hammer action keyboard which you can pick up and carry under one arm!! Casio keybaords are very easy to link up to a computer and you do not need to download or install any drivers for either PC or Apple.
Anyway good luck with your searches.
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I've also been impressed with the Casio's lately. Not the cheap ones at wallieworld, but some of the nicer ones have a decent feel. Used to be that Technics were a good brand too (for feel/price) but they fell by the wayside.
Personally, I like a weighted board for acoustic piano sound. That's it. I prefer the synth feel for most sounds. I have one Roland weighted action board (stage piano type board) and the rest I own are regular synth feel. I actually prefer a synth feel with polyphonic aftertouch, but that's just my view, and that 'polyphonic' aftertouch isn't so common anymore in reality..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Journeyman
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Quote:
I have a PX-3 and it is brilliant to have a fine gigging piano with proper 88-note hammer action keyboard which you can pick up and carry under one arm!! Casio keybaords are very easy to link up to a computer and you do not need to download or install any drivers for either PC or Apple.
Exactly! I have been playing classical music and jazz on real grand pianos since about six years old, and I strongly agree with the above about how nice the action is on the PX-3. I previously played a Roland A-80 midi controller, which is sort of the long-time standard studio device, but heavy. The new PX-30 is only about 26 pounds, and is a great value, and most importantly, fun for the fingers. Of course, you will need an amp or speaker(s). Good luck.... lots of choices.
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You folks have all been wonderful, I am taking lots of notes. Still have not approached wify, but with all this great input, when I do, I will be loaded and ready to hunt bear, she won't know what hit her 
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Joined: Jan 2002
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I have a Korg PA80 and a Yamaha P80 for sale. I was hoping to get $1500, for the pair, but I think, right now, I'd be happy with about $1,200 or so. This will include a Korg PA 80 Professional Arranger, 61 keys, synth weighted, a Yamaha P-80 88 key weighted keyboard...it does feel like a piano, and a two tier rack. Buyer pays the shipping, which will probably be expensive. Demos of both keyboards can be heard at: http://www.catsmeowcafe.com/Music/PA80.mp3It's a LARGE file, 32 megs. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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So here is what I have ID'ed. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Casio+-+Priv...e=30-11256768-2In my budget with the essential features for a beginner piano player. Of course I will listen to any final words of wisdom - but sale is this weekend! One big question in my mind, is it Touch Sensitive keys - to me that means if you hit them light the sound is soft and if you hit them hard it gets load. Our current kekboard has only on/off.  The specs don't state "touch sensitive"??? Any one know??? Dad
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I can't recall any weighted board I've seen not having it.
Actually, if you click the specifications tab, it says touch sensitive - yes
Last edited by rharv; 11/24/11 07:03 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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What would I do without you guys... Thanks Rharv
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Quote:
One big question in my mind, is it Touch Sensitive keys - to me that means if you hit them light the sound is soft and if you hit them hard it gets load. Our current kekboard has only on/off. The specs don't state "touch sensitive"??? Any one know???
Dad
It has the same "pianoforte" feel as an acoustic grand piano as far as the touch goes. "Velocity Sensitive" is the MIDI way of describing that, because in truth, when we hit the key "harder" the thing that even the acoustic piano actually responds to is the speed with which the key is depressed.
That's a very good choice for the purpose IMO. I'd play that thing out at any gig and also would record with it, practice on it, whatever. The Acoustic Resonance DSP technology thang it has is good stuff IMO.
--Mac
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Joined: May 2008
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Journeyman
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Dan:
The Casio px-130 seems like a good choice if you don't need the keyboard to be Gemeral Midi compatible, like being able to use it with band in a box.
The px-330 is General midi compatible, but it is more expensive, around $699 at most stores -- about $662 at amazon without the stand.
Good luck. I hope your son enjoys it.
John
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Quote:
Dan:
The Casio px-130 seems like a good choice if you don't need the keyboard to be Gemeral Midi compatible, like being able to use it with band in a box.
John
John , I don't understand this. There is a USB-Midi output which I have read is recognized in mutiple DAWs. So why won't this play in BIAB? I don't plan on use as a midi controller, but may want to try to load into my DAW so I can record midi and apply sertain VSTs for possible piano sound adn editing. Can you clarify?
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The point is whether it has a GM or GM2 soundset. Either will do.
BiaB styles assign sounds using this format. If it isn't there, you may have trouble using it in BiaB, having to reassign patch numbers to get something close. It's what makes 'program change 1' a piano sound, etc.
For BiaB use GM matters. Don't know if your selection has GM or not, but if for your son it may not be too important. If plannong on usng with BiaB it will be.
Snce your link shows (under specs) it only has 16 tones it will likley not be GM. GM has 128 patches (sounds). From piano to bass to horns to organs .. GM is a defined patchlist of sounds BiaB uses quite heavily.
Last edited by rharv; 11/24/11 03:22 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Journeyman
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Dan: It depends on how you want to use the keyboard and what you will be using as your sound source -- whether you will be using the Privia keyboard to generate sounds with BIAB or any other DAW or if you will be using a soft synth to generate the sounds. You could use the px-130 as a controller to record midi, but the Px-130 only has 16 sounds, mostly piano and organ, strings variations and two Bass sounds. You could use the px-130 to generate any of those sounds but the Px-130 can't play back other sounds like guitar, horns, or any of the other 128 General Midi sounds. You can see a list of the General Midi sounds here http://www.midi.org/techspecs/gm1sound.phpIf you will be using the keyboard as your only midi sound source, then it wouldn't work too well with BIAB because BIAB uses the General Midi sound set. The Px-330 has 250 sounds, the General Midi sound set plus variations, so it's close to, and possibly exactly, the GM2 sound set - I haven't compared the sound sets completely. If you are going to use a soft synth for all of your midi-generated sounds then you'd be fine in BIAB. When using a DAW, you could use a soft synth to generate some midi sounds and the PX 130 to generate some sounds. If hope this makes sense. I'm writing this at my in-laws in between trips to the kitchen to help making Thanksgiving dinner. Write if you have any questions. John
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Quote:
He always said if he took lessons it would spoil the fun
To me this is a core issue. How to make lessons seem like fun or at least necessary
What are your son's goals with a keyboard?
How can he be made to see that lessons will help him achieve those goals quicker?
Quote:
he is a good trumpet player in school bands for all his years.
How did this happen. Lessons?
What value does he place on his trumpet playing. If he had lessons, does he appreciate their value
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit 16GB RAM\2018 13” MacBook Air casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
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biab & realband 2023 everything pk both with Current builds
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I learned to play the piano at 16. I could play in public at 18.
I'm still learning.
I learned to play a baritone marching horn at 51. At 52 I figured out how to stay in step doing it. At 53 I learned how to 'march' with the mouthpiece on my lips. At 54 I had 'er down at. At 59 I lost the ability to walk but still play in 3 other community bands.
There is no bad investment in music. If you know a little you can leave it on the shelf and pull it down later. Years later.
I told my teacher when I was 16 that Mary had a little lamb was not for me. I dropped Exodus sheet music in front of her and spent months on 4 note form chords, both hands. I could play hymns in any key (her teaching) in 6 months. 3 years later I heard add 6 in a hymn and was blown away.
A number of years went by, I changed jobs 3 times, bought a wirly black box with silver legs and played in bands in our community.
And so it goes.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Having a little buyers remorse today. Thats right, its not the Casio Privia PX-130. When the family went to local Guitar Center (just to look!), the Casio PX-130 was there but no power cord could be found on the showroom unit so we could not listen to it. And there was the Yamaha P95B, selling like hot cakes. Three went out the door as we were there. Now on paper I felt the Casio was the better buy, both for cost and features. However the boy sat at both and he felt the Yamaha had a better "touch". So a deal was struck, monies were exchanged, and its an early xmas here. It really does sound nice. 
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Oh, but the way, thanks to all for the help. I appreciate it. 
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