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Joined: Aug 2011
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Journeyman
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Sandra,
Be encouraged...please ! You are MASTER CLASS guitarist...period. But that does not mean that your vocals need to match that ability. You say you are doing 2,3 vocal tunes for the CD, right ? So these tracks are 'incidental' to the project. Not meaning to demean or lessen their value, but the emphasis on the project is the instrumental aspect, correct ?
I've heard tons of CD's by great instrumentalists that are 'just OK' vocalists (1 or 2 vocal tracks per CD)...SO WHAT ? As long as it's a heartfelt performance (the hardest part I think) people will relate.. DO IT !
Be encouraged ! Practice... and let us hear the final results. I'm in for the CD purchase !
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Sandra,
I enjoyed listening to you do this song, a great song that fits your style. Because I place a high value on vocal quality I was prepared to be quite critical if necessary. However, I found your vocal quality to be very pleasant, and a good match with your song material. Your voice is clear, on pitch, has interesting rhythmic variance in different parts of the song, and keeps the listener interested. I'm sure that with additional training you could be even better, but you are already a long ways towards your goal. If, according to your coach, singing will bring you more success, then I am quite sure you will find that success. You are certainly already very accomplished on your instrument.
Best of luck,
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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Sandra, One thing I left out in my 1st reply. . . I'd bet your guitar playing did not start at the level at which you are currently playing, so keep in mind you have just started the singing journey. You will get better with each practice session and performance as you are a too good musician for that not to happen and that will without a doubt in my mind, translate to stronger vocals. Edited portion: Remember Herb Alpert, strong trumpet player? I also remember that while he was never know for his voice his heartfelt rendetion of This Guys IN Love With You was a big and memorable hit. Later,
Last edited by Danny C.; 02/19/12 09:17 PM.
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Hi Sandra, Since your project isn't until autumn. Find a "professional vocal coach" with references to work with you. A pro vocal coach NOT a "voice teacher". A real pro vocal coach will tailor your sessions to fix problems and refine your own singing style as opposed to just learning breathing, scales, etc. The cost will be worth it as the real pro vocal coach will help you be the best you personally can be in the least amount of time. You'll do the work and approach singing with the same professional mindset as you do with perfecting your guitar chops - which I believe from what you said is what you want to do. Once you add a vocal to a song - whether the singer is you or somebody else - that vocal now carries that song. The majority of people listening will focus on the vocal. I disagree with some here who say your vocal songs can be somehow expendable or lesser just because you are foremost an instrumentalist. This is a singles oriented world now. There are no designated album cuts any more. Once you step up to the mic people have expectations. You're going to take heat for doing it from all the critics regardless. You don't have to be the reigning Ms Golden pipes but you can be the best singer Sandra can be with your own confident style. Ask around and find yourself a real pro vocal coach who's working or has worked with other budding artists who have label deals and go from there.  All the best, Josie
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Hi Sandra,
For someone who doesn't sing that was pretty good. I agree with Mitch, pick your key carefully for your voice. This one was a shade high, although with coaching you will get those high notes without straining. You guitar playing indicates that you are disciplined and strive for perfection. I don't think you need to go the perfection route on vocals. Vocals are for expressing emotion, and unfortunately tend to tire quickly. When playing a string instrument, breathing is not of paramount importance, when singing it is. Do your own singing, you are plenty good enough for that, and dont worry about the CD. The studio is full of gimics that even top singers rely on. But be careful of being too perfect, gypsy swing, like blues, is not about perfection but emotion. For an example of someone who can’t sing listen to Paolo Conte. He can fill concert halls with his gravel voice, and his CDs are pretty good too. In a world where singers tend to sound the same, a bit of gravel (Tom Waites) and especially emotion (Joe Cocker) and uniqueness (Amy Winehouse) are what brings success. It’s not the voice that determines success, it’s the singer. Go for it.
Chris
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Hi Sandra.
I don't think you've you've got anything to worry about.
Singing is largely about confidence and, hopefully, the encouragement you've got from all these comments will help to provide that. Don't be scared of those high notes, pile on even more expression and you'll have a great recording.
ROG.
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Sandra,
I agree with many of the posts above (Mac, Mitch,..)
A couple of points to bear in mind.
- this is a particularly challenging tune to sing, so it's perhaps unfair of us to assess you on it
- if you plan to sing live you would not want the singing to distract you in any way from your primary skill as a guitar player.
Good luck!!
Marc
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Hi Sandra,
I think you will do OK once you have sorted out the glitches in your voice.
Many others have given advice to you.
I would offer a practical advice (it worked for me - I think),
If you are using headphones when you are singing take one side of the headphones off your ear.
You may be surprised to hear the difference that can make.
Just go for it. What have you got to lose.
Best regards
George
Windows 11 64 bit, Biab 2023 1006, Realband 2023 (1)
i7 Desktop Computer 16Gb Memory
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Thank you folks for all your good advice and I totally appreciate your honest replies!
As an excuse (LOL) I have to say though, this was the first and only vocal take on that recording. I haven`t yet practised the song either. And I also didn`t have it run through some pitch correction thingie (as you can hear;-))
I did this on purpose, because this is the level I would perform live (right now), so I wanted to know if there`s potential to keep going or if it`s a complete fail.
But since I`ve got a couple of months till the recordings and first live gigs with that set, I think I can handle it.
I totally agree with Mike and some others that say my singing doesn`t meet my high level of guitar playing. But I think in a couple of months I will be able to sing good enough for the purpose intended.
Sandra
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Quote:
But since I`ve got a couple of months till the recordings and first live gigs with that set, I think I can handle it.
I totally agree with Mike and some others that say my singing doesn`t meet my high level of guitar playing. But I think in a couple of months I will be able to sing good enough for the purpose intended.
Sandra
Sandra, I KNOW that you are able to do it!
Listen to others, but always listen to your own inner voice a bit more intently as you have the taste, knowledge. muscial experience and above all the built in pursuit of excellence standing behind you.
Ahd always remember this:
The professional musical critic is never a working musician. Rather, they are typically made up of people who tried to be and did not succeed. So they find work writing critiques instead *grin*. As a matter of fact, I tell my masterclass level students to look forward to that first bad review. It is a rite of passage.
Not many people know that when Frank Sinatra first started out in New Jersey, he sang so badly and out of tune that he had to beg his mother to purchase a PA system so the local bands would hire him (they typically needed the PA for the "other" female singer on the same gig). He kept at it. He took singing lessons. He got better. Obviously.
--Mac
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Right on, Sandra. Find a good vocal coach. He/she can help you learn to use and train your vocal instrument. You might want to contact Corinne Morini. She is a vocal coach in Vienna, using the EVTS method. EVTS is an innovative system for developing masterful control of the human voice. I don't know Corinne Morini, I found her when I did a search on the EVTS international site for an EVTS instructors in/near Vienna. Make sure you feel comfortable with your vocal coach. This will make the training much more beneficial. Go for it! I will be looking forward to listen to your upcoming album.
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I like your voice as is, Google Vocal Fry and maybe try that if you want to add more to what you already have!
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Just stop and think about how many "singers" can't sing at all... start with Mick Jagger. Move to Rod Stewart. God, Stewart's voice is like nails on a blackboard. That screaming quality.... Whole bunch of people got famous because of the band behind them without being able to sing. That first take was better than a lot of people I hear right now.
You have ZERO to worry about. As you practice and improve from a very good starting point, it'll all work out.
I am using the new 1040XTRAEZ form this year. It has just 2 lines.
1. How much did you make in 2023?
2. Send it to us.
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I like to think I can tell a capable vocalist in the first couple of notes they sing. It is the same quality element that every gutarist searches for, I am sure you have also. It is Tone! Hard to define but you know it when you hear it. You either have it or you have to work a long time to get it. In your case I heard a hint of it. Thats a good thing - it can develope and grow with practice and instruction.
The thing I see here in these reviews "reading between the lines" is folks trying to tell you that to be a good vocalist you have to love to sing. If you force it or fake it, it won't work. Good luck.
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Quote:
Thanks! What does "phonics" mean?
It's that mythical bird that rises from the dead.......
WSS
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No Steve, that's "Phenics" 
Cheers,
Keith
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Journeyman
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Sandra
As others have commented, you have a good voice that just needs some fine tuning.
The first part of the process is learning the correct physical techniques to smooth out any rough spots and a vocal coach may be the best and quickest way to get that done.
There may also be useful articles and videos on the Internet.
The second part of the process is mental, building your performance confidence so that your apprehension doesn’t cause you to tense up your vocal chords and restrict your range.
One technique to try is to start each vocal session by saying to yourself :
“OK let’s have some fun with this song.
“Let’s really get into the feel of it regardless of whether it’s “Perfect” or not”,
Some times perfection can also be very boring to listen to.
“I am now going to act and sing like the singer I want to be (visualize your favorite singer) performing in a place I’ve always dreamed off.”
Really believe in the song and want to project that feeling out to the audience with your singing.
Picture yourself singing like your favorite singer on stage, with all the emotive gestures.
Smile! Play with the song, trying different presentations.
It’s all part of the “fun factor”.
It loosens you up so your technical training can shine through.
That’s one of the reasons, I believe, we all sound so good in the shower.
All that apprehension is washed away, leaving us to enjoy the process of singing.
The great singers, regardless of their voices are also great entertainers. Their voice is only part of the package.
Surprisingly, many have said that they are not immune to stage fright but they have learned to overcome it and go out there and give a great show.
The mental aspect is just as, if not more than important than their vocal ability.
Always keep in mind that unless you are recording a live club performance for your CD, you have as many takes as it takes to get it right in the studio.
And you have lots of tools to tweak them.
The best part of any take can be cut and added to another best part until you get the result you or your producer wants so that helps take some of the pressure off.
Hope you find some of this useful and look forward to hearing your CD.
Carkins
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Quote:
No Steve, that's "Phenics" [/quot
No Keith, that's a city in Arizona...
WSS
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Sandra Check out this video I found and others on youtube: Take The Stress Out of Recording Vocals in the Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ze-VpJgngBest wishes, Carkins
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You're good enough to know where you're at. What I noticed was the reverb; it distracted and that's a common trap. Don't spend time trying to do anything to the vocals. If you want to learn to sing start recording yourself singing and *listen* to it. Don't add anything, just focus on the performance. You'll start hearing what you need to work on. I would spend a bit of time doing this combined with lessons.
Stop and listen to what you just sang. Don't just keep singing it over and over, that will develops muscles but little technique.
I started this with my daughter and it helped her a lot. Just listening to herself honestly (very little FX) helped her to learn her range, when she needs to think about pitch and when she can just sing it.
Have fun though, don't be hard on yourself, just listen and learn. Then do it again.
Make your sound your own!
.. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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