|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151 |
And in answer to Peter's question, yes, I do transcribe licks that I find interesting. I write them out. Then I figure out where they're coming from, that's the important part.
I mainly listen to and transcribe licks that negotiate certain progressions. V7-I's and III-VI7's in particular. When I learn how a certain player is negotiating those changes it gives me ideas and makes my vocabulary a little more fluent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,776
PG Music Staff
|
|
OP
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,776 |
Aloha,
Yes, that's what I do. I categorize them based on the relative note of the scale that they start off with. I write them out, and file them away like that. So that all II-V-I that begin on the minor 3rd of the II chord are in the same place. Then, when you are soloing, and find yourself approaching a Fm7 chord (ie a Fm7 Bb7 EbMaj7 coming up), and you are around the Ab note (the minor 3rd of the Fm7 chord), it is easy to recall a bunch of phrases that begin on the minor 3rd, and you can compare them while you practice them.
Of course you don't end up playing the whole phrase, might just use part of it, but at least you don't completely forget phrases that you spent the time to transcribe and learn, just because you never see them again.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 601
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 601 |
Playing licks on a sax (or any horn actually) is a lot different than doing it on a guitar. We don't have the advantage of positional changes making the same lick "transportable" across keys. Some theorize since Coltrane studied with Sandole (a guitarist) he didn't realize what was easy on a guitar was horrendously challenging on a tenor and did it anyway.
So, I guess I am a proponent of learning licks on a "per key" basis. Some might transpose to 2-3 other keys easily, but many will just "lay" right in 1-2 keys.
Jan - 12 Core AMD Ryzen 9 3900X
32GB DDR4
Win 10 64-bit
Samsung m.2 SSD Boot drive,other SSD internal and USB drives.
MOTO 2
Ketron SD4,SD1000
Yamaha RX-v381amp
VB-Audio virtual cables
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151 |
Playing licks on a sax (or any horn actually) is a lot different than doing it on a guitar. We don't have the advantage of positional changes making the same lick "transportable" across keys. Interesting but........wrong. Playing in different keys on a guitar isn't just a matter of moving a few frets up or down. It isn't practical to do that, especially in jazz. Guitar players need to be able to play in all positions. If we're transposng from Db to F we're not just "moving everything up" 4 frets. Check Martino out. He plays licks in every key within a span of 4 -5 frets. The guitar is a strange beast in that anyone can pick up a guitar, learn three open chords and call himself a guitar player. But it goes much deeper than that. Just my opinion, but I've been around for a while.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303 |
it's really pretty simple, just memorize the riff. A riff is just a motive, if one can't memorize that, he should work on ear training.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,519
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 26,519 |
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129 |
I'm very much enjoying and learning from this topic. Being a person that can't solo well over chord progressions (I'm working on it with BB/RB right now), I'd love to hear and see (e.g. youtube) some of our more experienced players 'jamming' with BB/RB in real time, maybe trading 4's with the soloist...and possibly adding a voiceover to discuss what's going on 'under the hood' so to speak. Also, for a guitar player as myself, seeing the hands of another guitar player is really helpful for me to recognize scales and chords - real hands even more than a fretboard with notes lighting up  but I'm in the process of getting more used to the latter. If anyone knows of some learning links in this sort of format, please share the links. Thanks for the great discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,610
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,610 |
I know (just an example) the lead solo for 'Hotel California' by heart and I get through about half of it without a problem. They say the more you practice having arthritis, the easier it gets and the looser you get with you hands/fingers. That's not true for me on that particular solo. BUT, I never give up. On the bright side: I really don't gig anymore, so I don't have to do covers. I only do originals and when I slip a note or two here and there, I can claim "that was the idea". 
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,949
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,949 |
I'm not trying to argue with Lee, but I see what you mean PhyillyJazz.
There is a lot more correlation on guitar than most horns. If the voicing doesn't work on guitar you may need to change a few fingerings, but with horns every key causes a whole new set of fingerings for almost every note.
That's what I meant by learning things differently. Learn by the intervals, and even more so if you play a horn. Once I have an instrument I play in my hands, I'm a lot better at 'going up a third from where I am now' than I am at thinking 'I know this song in G concert, and I'm on a trumpet so I need to transpose to A and then add another 5th for the key we're playing in now .. because we're doing this in D so I need to be in E .. and I started in G so .. umm'
If you are talking improvisation, that is much different than the topic started out. The topic started with learning melodies (I think). Then I started seeing posts about pasting different licks together. That's the next step after learning the licks in my mind.
However, I personally think if you learn to think in intervals for melodies, when you do want to recall a certain lick this method helps a lot; you may be improvising in key of 'X' and you originally learned it in 'Y'.
Confused yet?
/I can have that effect on people
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897 |
YEAH...I REMEBER THAT CHICAGO BEE HIVE GIG...OR WAS IT A "A SCHOOL OF SORTS IN FRETFULLY UNIQUE ALL-POSITIONS-TOGETHER"
PLAYING...WITH A FRIGHTFULLY APPARENT KNOWLEDGE BY "JOHNNY"!
THAT WAS THE EVENING MANY STAFF CHICAGO GUITARIST, WALKED OUT INTO THE CHILLY EARLY MORNING AIR..JUST SHAKIN' THEIR COLLECTIVE HEADS.
I WALKED OUT WITH JOHNNY BETWEEN HIS WIFE AND I...
CALL IT "THE LOST TRIO...OR LOST TRIAD....
AND JOHNNY FOUND THEM ALL....BY PRACTICE AND DETERMINATION,
WITH A LITTLE TRUMPET-PLAYING EXPERIENCE TUCKED AWAY IN ANOTHER COMPARTMENT OF HIS RIGHT-SIDED BRAIN...
ASK STAN GETZ WHO LOVED PLAYING WITH JOHNNY AND HIS FRETLESS JAZZ GUITAR...AT LEAST WHEN STAN GLANCED OVER AT HIM WHILE THEY WERE BOTH "EXPLORING THE GALAZIES OF IMPROV"...HE DIDN'T THINK THE AX HAD ANY FRETS OR "POSITION MARKERS"!
SORRY PETER...AS A GUITARIST WHO STARTED WITH A GIBSON 125, LIKE WE DID...JUST PRACTICE AND PLAY TRUMPET TOO!! "CHROMATICALLY JIVING" AS THEY SAY... "
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
Korg...Karma,Triton Classic, PA-80, M-1+
AkaiSampler-S5000, Roland.. X5080 Rack/G-1000 Arranger
Various Guitars/Basses Amps Pedals Rec.Equip.
Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 174
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 174 |
it's really pretty simple, just memorize the riff. A riff is just a motive, if one can't memorize that, he should work on ear training. I agree with ear training. Still a 'riff' for some of us is a challenge, despite having well trained ears. It is never just a succession of notes. It is also a specific feel, emphasis etc. That is where I have challenges copying another. In fact I can play competently, but cannot copy others well in the least. I just don't have anybody's else's natural phrasing. I have done this with success a few times, but it never sticks in muscle memory. I have my own natural phrasing that is so embedded that any riff I learn becomes a variation of the original. I know some players who can 'note for note' other players. It can be impressive and I can deeply respect the talent and yet it doesn't actually excite me. Cheers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums65
Topics83,456
Posts758,176
Members39,119
| |
Most Online3,932
Nov 19th, 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean