|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
I am playing piano starting about 4-5 years ago and working hard.
For a long while I have been struggling with chord extensions, ie. those exotic notes that the best players pepper their playing with.
I have a good degree of flexibility with basic chords and inversions but using these extra notes does not come easy to me - yet. I can fill in maybe a ninth or a sixth as a passing tone, but that's about it.
It's not that I don't know where they are, it's more that when I do use them my ear says 'well what did you do that for!" - although, paradoxically, I find these notes fine in other peoples playing.
I was speaking to another (better) piano player and he has suggested that instead of reaching for an inversion of a chord - left hand root fifth, or, root octave, or root 7th and right hand an inversion of the stated chord - as I normally do. Instead of this, I should think of 'feature notes'. He thought of these as frequently the third and the seventh, plus any exotic. notes from the chord symbol.
Interestingly, he filled in the other missing spaces not with the notes from a associated scale (e.g. diminished scale to go with diminished chord) but just with the regular notes from the key of the piece.
I feel there is something in this approach, but I can't think of a way to get this approach 'instantaneous' as it has to be for improvisation.
The piece we were looking at was Bewitched
Any thoughts appreciated...
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
"Shells and Tritones" is where jazz playing starts when trying to learn LH piano comping.
Tritones for the dom7 chords, Shells for all else.
When playing the dom7 chord, it is okay to add the 9th, unless of course the Melody has a note that clashes with the 9th.
The Shells, just think of always playing the 3rd, Major or minor, usual is minor, then adding the appropriate extension. If the minor is a m7, which is typically the case in any ii-V7 situation, then the base of the Shell is going to be the m3 and the b7. Again, you might be able to add the 9th as well.
It is important to start out by memorizing these patterns in all keys such that you can grab them without thinking about them. The two five one drills around the circle are the best way to practice these. Note that you can only do six at a time before they start over again on the key you started out with. So then go up a half step and do the drill again, to cover all keys.
As for being able to add extensions, "on the fly" -- it sounds like you are doing it backwards in your way of thinking about it. In other words, don't think, "Let me see if the 13th works here" and then play it. Save that kind of experimentation for when practicing by yourself.
It is far better to learn to HEAR the note before attempting to add it to the chord. With practice at the ear training, it becomes possible to be able to lean on the infallible human ear for such things. It is much like how you can tell what color something is by simply looking at it. Which means that you can also "see" that color in your head without actually looking at something that is that color.
There are rules as to when we can safely use all of the extensions, if you use a good internet search engine like Bing to bring up some of the jazz piano information that is out there for free, you should easily find a webpage tutorial or two about LH piano in jazz, about those rules, and what and how to practice.
Two-Five-One drills and Rhythm Changes are the basics that you are looking for.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
thanks for the reply Mac.
To respond:
I should mention that I was talking about solo piano rather than accompaniment. I believe that you (usually) supply the root if there is no bass.
I suppose I have also been playing non jazz materials - mostly - but am now looking at jazz again.
Using the shells. I learnt these before, but they never seemed to 'arrive' in my playing, I struggle with using a third in the bass when there is a root as it becomes muddy. I do use thirds as passing notes if playing some kind of figure in the bass, all the scale tones are open to me this way.
Earwise I am ok. I use Earmaster and can identify any interval or standard chord reasonably swiftly, however I do realise that what your talking about is a different process - cerebrally.
thanks for the input, giving it further thought
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Thirds in the bass on unaccompanied piano work very well as Stride figures, if the hand can do the stretch of the "10th" -- if not, there are many Stride players who have mastered the art of ROLLING the LH from the bottom note to the third in the next octave and can imply the same thing.
For me, things really started to come together on that front when I started practicing harmonizing the Major Scale in all keys, :both: ways.
One way, we harmonize using the more or less standard jazz voicings, in C those would be:
C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - Bm7b5 - C
And adding the 7th extensions as well.
Then practice them out of serial order as well. I - vi - ii - V and I VI II V etc.
But there is the "other" way to voice the scale, that should also be practiced as well:
I - V - I - IV - V- IV - V - I
Here we are still moving up the Major Scale, but the harmonization is obviously much simpler in scope, the "gospel" style.
That gospel harmony is powerful and can be substituted for the jazz chordings in many an unaccompanied piano situation. Ray Charles was the Master at this, check him out for ideas.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
Funny you should mention this Mac, the first thing I did on the piano was learn the modes, and just recently I have been taking the I.IV, AND V chords or 'gospel modes' as you call them through all twelve keys. I have also been taking simple folk tunes - mostly 1, 1V, V tunes though 12 keys.
Not tackled stride yet...
Last edited by ZeroZero; 09/17/13 10:08 AM.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows® Today!
If you’ve already purchased Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®, great news—a new update is now available! This update introduces a handy new feature: a vertical cursor in the Tracks window that shows the current location across all tracks, and more.
Discover everything included in this free update and download it now at https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm#1124
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator
With Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®, we've introduced an exciting new feature: the AI Lyrics Generator! In this video, Tobin guides you step-by-step on how to make the most of this new tool.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Boot Camp: The AI Lyrics Generator video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows® now includes support for VST3 plugins, bringing even more creative possibilities to your music production. Join Simon as he guides you through the process in this easy-to-follow demonstration!
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Video: Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows: Using The BB Stem Splitter!
In this video, Tobin provides a crash course on using the new BB Stem Splitter feature included in Band-in-a-Box 2025® for Windows®. During this process he also uses the Audio Chord Wizard (ACW) and the new Equalize Tempo feature.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows®: Using the BB Stem Splitter
Check out the forum post for some optional Tips & Tricks!
Congrats to Misha (Rustyspoon)…downloaded/installed a full Audiophile 2025!
Breaking News!
We’re thrilled to announce that Rustyspoon has made PG history as the very first person to successfully complete the download and install of the full Band-in-a-Box 2025 Windows Audiophile Edition (with FLAC files)—a whopping 610GB of data!
A big shoutout to Rustyspoon for stepping up to be our test "elf!"
Thank you for your support, Rustyspoon!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows Videos
With the launch of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows, we're adding new videos to our YouTube channel. We'll also share them here once they are published so you can easily find all the Band-in-a-Box® 2025 and new Add-on videos in one place!
Whether it's a summary of the new features, demonstrations of the 202 new RealTracks, new XPro Styles PAK 8, or Xtra Styles PAKs 18, information on the 2025 49-PAK, or detailed tutorials for other Band-in-a-Box® 2025 features, we have you covered!
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Videos - we will be updating this post as more videos are added!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Windows is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until December 31, 2024! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Windows 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums65
Topics83,456
Posts758,170
Members39,118
| |
Most Online3,932
Nov 19th, 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean