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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Over the decades, I can't say that I've ever heard someone who had the ability to read music ever lament the fact.


--Mac

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Whar I mean is this. Myt partner has been playing piano for thirty years, she can read anything well first time, she cant improvise a note. This is the way I was taught 'classical' method, on my first instrument. I really wanted to improvise, could read anything but was stuck - completely stuck.
The modern musician almost must improvise. Many of the bands I have been in have very accomplished musicians that cant read a note - particularly gu8itarists. Why? Well notation just cant capture certain things, the wail of a blues harmonica or the screech of a electric solo - how can you write these things down? If you do it would be so complex that it would only be readable by the very few. I once was handed a chart of a sax solo it was full of demisemiquavers, but all that was really happening was the player was coming in a little early.

Whilst I agree reading music in an elementary way is useful and should be in the kit bag, I have on my bookshelf several volumes of piano exercises, for impro and tech, I would not suggest putting these in front of the eyes and playing them. Much better (IMHO) to dispense with the third man (the page) and just have you and the piano. Learn some theory, learn some song forms, then apply your exercise to these. not to the original exercise only, but also to other settings, this way learning increases exponentially
My partner can easily read the heads of the Real Book but flounders on the chords.
Its just a personal belief, but I feel that harmonic understanding should be taught first, and applied rigorously, before reading, reading has its place of course, but even the accomplished classical player dispenses with it as soon as is possible. When I read for the piano I make sure to close the page as soon as I have mastered a phrase/line that way I memorise. Its a common trap to use reading as a crutch. Who wants to walk on crutches?

Just a point of view...


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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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I'm actually trying to avoid what Zero Zero describes. It's easy to lose the forest while you're in the trees of learning to read music, to the neglect of learning your instrument intimately (exploring and touching it in intuitive meaningful ways guided by the theory of chord formulas, scale formulas, and discovery of their fingerings - far beyond your ability to read fluently.)

But that's been my lack of balance - so for me, that is why my approach this time around includes the balance I've lacked in the past.

The discussion is not whether or not to focus on both reading and non-reading exercise - but how to best balance your time between the two. And that's different for everyone given your previous history and hindsight.

Last edited by Joe V; 11/09/13 04:03 AM.
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Sounds reasonable to me as a plan, Joe, my only concern involves the intentional neglecting of one very important aspect of the thing and you don't sound like you'll fall for that anymore.

Onward and Upward,


--Mac

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Joe, learn to read music from many different angle as you approach keyboard. When it starts to feel like monotony, move on to a different type of exercise. Macs recommendations are great for scales and parallel and contrapuntal movement from what I recall. I also remember a Fingerpower series. These seem boring but they are fundamental to getting your hands to do what is needed in actual playing. Also check out the Scott Houston stuff. His stuff will get you comping for pop and rock. He will expect some ability to read and for you to know note names and time values. I love his teaching style-very encouraging and gets folks a sense of accomplishment with pretty quick and long term useful techniques and ideas. You might find some of his series on ebAy

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Thanks Scott - will add them to my library.

Somehow for me - playing around with motor coordination and fingerings is fun, but reading is very fatiguing...especially the contrapuntal lines and scales (Mac's very good book suggestions) where the left and right hands are doing very different / Independent things very frequently and at the very same time - like switching positions at different times, playing notes simultaneously.

I know I will have to very work on these things at some point. And I think the goal is to see the staff as a single composite object - not 2 different hands. But my guess is that composite comes after many arduous hours with the more difficult reading studies. I know all this - I just don't enjoy the process (hence - I'm not a working musician : )

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Originally Posted By: Joe V
...where the left and right hands are doing very different / Independent things very frequently and at the very same time - like switching positions at different times, playing notes simultaneously.

I know I will have to very work on these things at some point. And I think the goal is to see the staff as a single composite object - not 2 different hands.


It is not the number of hands, per se, but what happens in the head with the little gray cells that is really the problem we must overcome. The repetition of practice, slowly but always evenly at first, is where the speed comes from, for what we are really doing is programming our brain to familiarity with doing things such as controlling the so-called "muscle memory".

And, it is not a matter just for the keyboard. Guitar players who are serious must also work towards mastering the contrapointal aspects of playing, too.

Jerry Reed transcribed this lick from the New Orleans Jazz pianist Allen Toussaint who wrote the tune, "Southern Nights" - and then taught the lick to Glen Campbell, who enjoyed a hit and its money from same (and I'd bet that Mr. Toussaint did not object to the songwriter's royalties that came his way either...):



Ascending and Descending Chromatics at the same time!

And via the wonders of the internet, we can hit YouTube and find a whole first page of guitarists willing to teach that lick. Slow and even, soon enough comes fast and even, then comes that time when the entire thing is like firing a Macro from within your mind. You don't really think about it anymore, the familiarity breeds the contempt of just firin' it off.



While many may have passed this tune off as being just another country/pop offering, let's not neglect Toussaint's original performance of his song:




Quote:
But my guess is that composite comes after many arduous hours with the more difficult reading studies. I know all this - I just don't enjoy the process (hence - I'm not a working musician : )


One can choose to make it hard and tedious, and will get what they have chosen.

On the other hand, if one heeds my oft mentioned advice to always practice intelligently, work on one small part of a particular problem at a time, only drill for ten to twenty minutes at most on it, set it aside and come back to it another day, don't fall prey to the idea that these things MUST be mastered in a self-imposed deadline situation, in other words always keep your practicing in line with the PGMusic motto, "HAVE FUN" when working with your music, the end results will take care of themselves.

If they can do it, you can do it too.

Deep Desire. That's what it really takes.


--Mac

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For Joe:




Very Strong Performance and a Double Tremelo to die for.


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ok - I'm psyched ! Thanks again for sharing - I especially need the reminder of 10 to 20 minutes of focus and not burning oneself out.

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Joe, here is a great segment on Keith Jarrett's drummer and bass player on how important they think piano playing is to playing their own instruments - to support Mac's point from at least a page back.

http://youtu.be/2KbqjVYztoQ?t=6m44s

-Scott

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Lionel Hampton was a drummer and known primarily as a vibrophonist.

He also played a mean "two-finger piano" in which he would use just one finger from each hand on the piano, mimicing the use of the two vibe mallets. And played some great piano that way.





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