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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Hi all,
We have quite a few accomplished players on this site.
I thought the open-ended question above might promote some 'gem' sharing...with regard to any instrument you play.
Thanks in advance,
Joe V.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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There should come a point where you do not have to practice the things that were once difficult for you.
At that point it is time to move forward and begin practicing something else that IS difficult, the goal of course being to work that particular whatever to the point where it, too, is mastered.
It never ends, Joe, and IMO it shouldn't.
Of course, sometimes it is good to revisit the scale, etude or exercise previously mastered, as things learned from doing the new things may be re-applied to the old friend with gain.
One of the things I've noticed from working my "Senior Citizens Centers Music Ministry" is that the very old folks who play music seem to be still in possession of their mental faculties - and many can still sit a piano, or a guitar, or a drumkit, etc. and PLAY.
So as far as your question goes, my experience is, "make new friends, but keep the old, one is silver and the other gold."
The difficult exercise of a time past, once you have it under your belt, is the warmup drill of the present.
And so it goes.
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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I'll just throw out a general comment to improve one's skills.
Choose difficult songs in your genre of choice, buy the songbook and get through the difficult, non-prozaic chord structures/changes.
Me...I chose Steely Dan/Alan Parsons songs for my mental challenges.
That's my take on it.....good luck.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Hit those Scale Patterns for the guitar, Joe.
Two octave Major Scales for starters.
The patterns are all over the internet.
Start with just one.
Play it slowly and evenly at first, from lowest note to highest note and then back down again.
Don't try to learn them all at once, but as soon as you remember and are able to play the first pattern fairly well, start working the second, and so on.
A very good drill for scale practice on any instrument:
Up and Down evenly covering every note in turn.
Up in thirds, then back down in thirds. This is literally "skipping every other note" - 13,24,35,46, etc and then, of course "unwinding" the same backwards until you get back to the lowest root you started on.
Then in threes: 123,234,345, etc. and unwind.
Then in fours: 1234,2345,3456
ALL Keys - which, with the closed string patterns, is the same pattern moving up the neck, but thinking what key you are in for each one, plus the name of each note in that key.
Evenly.
Learn the Major, the Harmonic minor and the Major and minor Pentatonic scales like that and you will amaze both yourself and others.
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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scales and finger exercises (patterns) on the fretboard.
You never get too good or too old to practice the basics.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Well, I read in another thread from Joe that he's able to play the rhythm part but not the lead, so.
(One of my favorite stunts when visiting the music stores is the guy who tells me that he plays, "Rhythm Guitar" - and then of course I deadpan, "Which one of these guitars is the Rhythm Guitar?" heh )
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Well, I read in another thread from Joe that he's able to play the rhythm part but not the lead, so.
(One of my favorite stunts when visiting the music stores is the guy who tells me that he plays, "Rhythm Guitar" - and then of course I deadpan, "Which one of these guitars is the Rhythm Guitar?" heh )
--Mac "You're in the band right? Yes. What do you play? Guitar. Oh lead or rhythm?" I got so tired of that song and dance from audience members while we were on break I started to answer "no" to the first question. Well unless it was a cute lady, then of course I explained the many differences between a lead and a rhythm guitar. muuhhhhhaaaa! Later,
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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That's nuthin', Danny, if you were the sole black guy in the band, wearin' a guitar or sittin' a keyboard the entire set, take a break and one of 'em would always declare that you must be the Drummer.
Seriously.
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Well, I read in another thread from Joe that he's able to play the rhythm part but not the lead, so.
--Mac That's not completely accurate, but close. Actually, I am pretty good mechanically, but I don't feel 'musical' and I can't play well without a 'script' - chord chart, tablature. I probably need to work on some chord/arpeggio exercises with the cycle of 4ths and 5ths, I'm guessing, or to internally memorize more songs so I can play them more fluently. Or maybe, I just need to practice more : ) Do I "know what I don't know", or are there still some things I still don't know I don't know ?
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Well, I read in another thread from Joe that he's able to play the rhythm part but not the lead, so.
--Mac That's not completely accurate, but close. Actually, I am pretty good mechanically, but I don't feel 'musical' and I can't play well without a 'script' - chord chart, tablature. I probably need to work on some chord/arpeggio exercises with the cycle of 4ths and 5ths, I'm guessing, or to internally memorize more songs so I can play them more fluently. Or maybe, I just need to practice more : ) Do I "know what I don't know", or are there still some things I still don't know I don't know ? Joe what genre do you play now, rock, jazz, metal etc? What genre(s) do you want to learn? I ask so we can help you with learning aids that will help you reach your goal. For instance it would do very little for you if you are playing metal, wanted to play metal better and someone suggests a jazz chord book. It’s not that suggesting a jazz chord book is a bad thing it is just that it would not rapidly help you achieve your goal.
Last edited by MarioD; 02/18/14 05:55 AM.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Genre is one thing, sure, but practicing those all important basic patterns until you own them, and then attempting to play any melodies and etc. that you already can sing, whistle or otherwise hear, using those same patterns in an effort to build a situation where you can stay in the fingering patterns and pick and play the notes that make those melodies, in all keys, and in a relatively short time you will have more facility available to play things other than the rote memorization of TABS can likely impart.
The TABS have a place, say for instance you hear something that you just HAVE to get under your belt, or maybe for an upcoming performance, that sort of thing, they can be real timesavers, but again the caveat about timesavers, shortcuts often leave the aspiring musician with less than we could have gained in the way of efficiency towards the goal of being able to quickly grasp and play that "new" to us thing.
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Genre is one thing, sure, but practicing those all important basic patterns until you own them, and then attempting to play any melodies and etc. that you already can sing, whistle or otherwise hear, using those same patterns in an effort to build a situation where you can stay in the fingering patterns and pick and play the notes that make those melodies, in all keys, and in a relatively short time you will have more facility available to play things other than the rote memorization of TABS can likely impart.
The TABS have a place, say for instance you hear something that you just HAVE to get under your belt, or maybe for an upcoming performance, that sort of thing, they can be real timesavers, but again the caveat about timesavers, shortcuts often leave the aspiring musician with less than we could have gained in the way of efficiency towards the goal of being able to quickly grasp and play that "new" to us thing.
--Mac Mac, I totally agree with you. I was just trying to find out what he wanted to play. Just practicing scales, modes and such can be very boring when done in isolation. However when you add an element of fun by learning something you like along with practicing those fundamentals can make one a very happy camper, at least IMHO.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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I really like sophisticated pop music and classic and progressive rock.
I mentioned Burt Bacharach, great 70's band (Beatles, Eagles, Bee Gees, one-hit wonders, Simon and Garfunckle, Beach Boys, Chicago, Yes, Peter Gabriel, Journey, Abba, Steeley Dan, Billy Joel, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, David Bowie, Dire Straits, Donovan, Earth Wind & Fire, Elton John, ELO, Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac....
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Arpeggiate, arpeggiate, arpeggiate. I learned that from someone here on this forum, as a matter of fact. Opens up the ears.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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What's a good order to start arpeggiating - do you go up the diatronic major and (harmonic) minor scales, or in cycle of 4ths ? or something else - do you start with triads or 7ths ?
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Start by fingering a chord and playing each note one at a time in succession from low to high and then back down from high to lowest notes. One note at a time, instead of the typical sweep of the chord.
But don't stop there, take a look at the actual fingering pattern and then work on being able to run that pattern while fingering it one fret at a time rather than first grabbing the entire "chord" with LH and then attempting to pick each note of the chord in succession.
Notice how that pattern fits into the scale pattern as mentioned above.
An Arpeggio is simply every other note of a scale in most cases.
For example, using one of those 2 octave Major scale patterns, but intentionally playing only the 1,3,5,8,3,5 out of it is the Major triad in two octaves.
Again, while being able to execute the scales and arpeggios with speed is one of the essential goals for the sake of teaching the muscle memory, it is also very important to practice these things daily until you become so familiar with not only the patterns on the neck but the SOUNDS of the various note relationships as well.
More time with the guitar in serious practice sessions and less time with other endeavors is the only way I know to "get there". If I knew of a shortcut or an easier way, I'd certainly mention it.
The good news is that it does not take all that long to "get there" with this thing, all that is required is a proper mindset, establish a daily discipline of practice regimen, not too long, mind you, but twenty minutes of structured and concerted practice daily beats all the talking about it in the world.
On average, it really takes less than a year's time for most dedicated students to change their abilities so much that others will start taking notice of the "difference" in abilities.
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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I think the wrong way to go is to learn something very complex. A maxim I use which almost always seems appropriate, is 'if you can learn something simpler then learn that first'. For example get really fast at playing three note runs, then join them together. Speed and dexterity begins with simplicity, you join up simple stuff to get complex stuff. Think simple.
I play my scales every day. I don't just play them one way. I think of 'articulating' scales, that is making the bendy and mobile like a toy plastic snake. The snake starts of rusty and stiff but if you oil it by hard work, it gets agile. Something I am currently working on is playing scales in two hands (piano) a third apart, ascending and descending through the cycles.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Good point in that my approach for guitar is different from my approach for piano.
For one thing, the piano player does not have to develop fingertip callouses, nor that left hand able to snatch payphones off the wall before they can obtain a good sound.
And then there's the articulation situation, timing between fingering and pickhand on the guitar, which can really start to complicate things...
--Mac
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Hi, Joe !:))
Could you post something
on the right forum so
that we could listen and judge
from that where you stand ?:))
Might be easier to give
advice when knowing where
the real problem is ??
Why not just put a small piece
of music together and let us hear ??
Cheers
Dani
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