Call me stupid, but I have been using BIAB to practice my improvisation and arppegios for the past year and had no idea you could use the backing tracks live.
I am a one man band that plays restaurants. I record backing tracks into my BOSS RC 300 looper pedal and then play over them.
Here are my questions
1. How can I use backing tracks created in BIAB in a live setting?
2. Is there any gear I need?
3. I don't want my backing tracks to sound "computer generated" like they do on my computer so do I need to do anything to make them sound "real?"
3. I have a Maschine Studio which I am still learning how to use that I was told I could use in conjunction with the BIAB
4. Is there a way to use the BIAB backing tracks without the Maschine Studio?
My BOSS looper pedal has a USB input if that helps you all
Here is the gear I am using. -BOSS GT 100 effects processor -BOSS RC 300 looper........for all my backing tracks -BOSE L1 system 2 model PA/Monitor/power amp -And of course my guitar.
I would greatly appreciate your help in this matter
To use in a live setting, I export from BIAB to a WAV file. Wouldn't want to rely on BIAB for live performance. I'm not familiar with the "looper pedal" or "mashine studio" so I can't comment on that.
I play my backing tracks directly from my laptop on stage. I use a PreSonus USB audio interface which sounds better than my laptop sound card and provides 1/4" outs to go into my live mixer. Using that setup, I don't have any problem with my tracks sounding "computer generated".
If you need more input, ask away.
Good luck.
Last edited by Takamine; 03/26/1410:40 AM.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
I do not often play "out" live..... but on the occasions I do, if it's not going to be just me and an acoustic guitar, I make backing tracks.
I write the song in BB and then use Real Band to render the various instrument tracks to audio files.
I import the audio files as tracks into my Sonar DAW and do the editing and enveloping there. I then export the final wave from Sonar without the lead vocal or my acoustic guitar. I burn that to a CD and pop the CD into a player at the gig site.
To hear what this sounds like, simply visit my web site (link in my signature) and click MY MUSIC and listen to a few of the songs there. They are all done in the method I describe above with the vocals and acoustic included in the mix.
Yeah... it's totally do-able.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
You all may call me stupid too, however I use BIAB for live performance on my laptop and have been since Ver 11. Now that I have Ver 14 I believe it sounds very good as is. I do all my mixing etc, put the lyrics on screen with other performance notes, and my partner and I just go to work. I play guitar with the arrangements which adds to the "live" sound. My computer has a high quality sound card, and we use a high quality sound system. I have two external HD's that I use for backup so if my laptop would fail, I can use any backup machine. 2014 has made it so easy to enter and arrange the music. I prefer the easy simple route, and did not want to spend a lot of money and time on equipment and such and learning to use more equipment. I have had several people ask where I buy my backing tracks, and I'm happy to tell them, I make them myself. I have even had some approach me to make tracks for them to use on CD. My partner and I are both retired, and we are working 2-3 programs per week, and bookings just keep coming. I don't plan to fix something that works so well as is.
I use my windows 7 PC 'live' on stage with my band as we don't have a reliable rhythm section - yet!
The laptop is connected via the jack to 'left and right' 1/4 jacks which feed into a Behringer 800w powered mixer, in turn feeding to 2 Peavey twin cone 15" floor standing speakers. It's a lot of gear to cart about, but if you're not looking, you'd swear blind it's a real rhythm section on stage. The built in sound card is fine I find, provided you've all the real tracks installed. For 'extra' instruments, I input what i want them to play on the notation screen in BIAB and use ARIA to provide the sounds - again, pretty convincing. Only thing is to make sure you have a decent laptop - I'd recommend at least an i5 processor with plenty of RAM and a big hard disk. Good luck!!http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/grin.gif
So I am thinking about upgrading to the Ultra Plus pack for an additional $279
Just to be clear.......you all feel the sound quality of what is in that package is top quality and will sound like real instruments when I make backing tracks?
So I am thinking about upgrading to the Ultra Plus pack for an additional $279
Just to be clear.......you all feel the sound quality of what is in that package is top quality and will sound like real instruments when I make backing tracks?
Curt
The sound quality will be extremely good. (The audiophile version will be slightly better, but unless you are doing commercial studio recordings with some high-quality gear, you will probably not be able to tell the difference).
If you use Real Drums and Real Tracks included in the Ultra Plus Pack, the instruments will sound real, because they are real recordings of instruments.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Here's a question for you. I bought the Maschine Studio recently not realizing I could use BIAB for many of the same things.
What is the difference between the two? Do you feel there is an advantage to using the two together. The demos done with the Maschine sound phenomenal too.
I appreciate your feedback. Could you please list out each piece of equipment I need to make this happen?
I have a laptop with BIAB I have a BOSE PA/Monitor/power amp I have my guitar
What am I missing? Interface?? Higher quality sound card??
Anything else? Curt
From what I can tell from your setup, it sounds like the only thing you would need is the USB audio interface. It's generally intended as a way to record on your PC, but I found it works great in a live setting. The digital signal is routed through a USB port into the audio interface where it is converted to analog. The Digital to Analog converters in the audio interface are generally much better than what are on a laptop's sound card. At least in my case, I think the sound is much cleaner. I give a lot of credit to others on this board for steering me in that direction.
I went with the PreSonus USB Audiobox. Can be had for around $120 from Sweetwater and other music retailers. I also considered the Focusrite 2i2, which sounds like a nice unit. The audio interface comes with a copy of StudioOne Artist. I prefer playing WAV files instead of BIAB files as I feel there's less to go wrong when using WAV files and (as I'll explain below) I find them easier to handle on stage.
Here's my workflow. I generally create the song in BIAB and get it as close as possible, complete with intro and ending. I then export each part as a separate WAV file and then import those into StudioOne. Once in StudioOne I tweak the parts a bit, maybe cut a guitar part out on a verse or whatever. I'll also add a few MIDI parts at this point, if needed. StudioOne also allows me to add some effects, EQ, reverb, etc. Once it's done (which it never is...) I export this as a single WAV file.
For playing live, I built a simple web site that is hosted on my laptop. Each page has a separate WAV file embedded in it, so all I have to do is hit the enter key to start the next song. (If anyone's interested, I'll send you a copy of the site.)
That's about it.
Good Luck
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
If you are not concerned with recording your own audio tracks, but are concerned with just using Band in a Box live for backing, the laptop's internal sound playback via the earphone jack, connected using a proper mini stereo connector that breaks out to the proper connect to your PA works very fine indeed.
Wow, some really good info here. Maybe I have been on the right track all along, and didn't know it. I own a PreSonus Audio Box, but have only used in in my studio for some limited recording. I use the USB port on my laptop and feed it directly into a Carvin 800 amp/mixer (10 lbs). That feeds into a Dawn 510 speaker system. The live sound is incredible. I loaded the BIAB 2014 onto my laptop which is relatively new with lots of memory and speed and storage. The internal sound card is home theater quality. When I use BIAB on the external HD, I can't tell any difference in the quality. I did this only because I don't have to carry the HD along. Most of my arrangements are all real tracks using 4-6 instruments and real drums (that makes all the difference)over midi drums. I love this whole thing and normally add a couple of new tunes per day. I use the mute and fade, volume and tone features to mix the arrangements in and out which works very well. I don't know how I could make it any simpler. I've tried the WAV file route, but I love being able to see where I'm at in the arrangements on screen with lyrics and notes. I use a dual monitor set up so my partner reads the same thing I do. I am a firm believer in using the system in live performance and have been very successful. I call the laptop my Cosmic Cowboy Computer Combo, but we do country, jazz, pop and lots of other stuff. It is just a heck of a deal, and simple.
Don't think you're missing anything except you don't mention some decent speakers - I'd use what you have right now. the beauty of using BIAB 'as is' is that you can alter the tempo, loop the song, change the feel etc. to keep the gig going well. We've looped the intro of a song on gigs when our singer sin't quite 'ready' and other times we haven't - can't do that if you've made your backing tracks into a cd, or put them on an i player etc. Also, not that your public would notice, but I like the fact that each time I generate a tune, the real tracks are slightly different from the time before, which adds interest for us musicians! Finally, if you found a cracking bassist for a gig, simply mute that instrument and they can 'step in' - next time, if it's just you, un-mute it and off you go!!
So to be clear, if I buy an interface, I can create a backing track on BIAB. I can then plug my guitar into the interface, play over the backing track, save the backing track AND what I played and burn it on to a CD? Or load it on to a website?
In other words create a demo???
I need to make a website and load on some demos so I can draw some business
Yes, you can use the interface to create a demo. That's really what it's designed to do, but I've found I like to use it for live performances, as well.
Reading through these posts you'll see there are a lot of ways to end up at the same destination. Neither is right or wrong, just a personal preference based on what works for each person.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
The Dawn 510 speaker system I mentioned in my post was at least partly engineered here in Wichita KS and later sold and is now largely extinct. I have two sets I bought on ebay and put in all new speakers. This unit has a sound dispersion that is fantastic. It has a down shooting woofer with a crossover out to two satellite 5 inch speakers that face up and have dispersion surfaces that nearly equal the Bose L-1. Placed behind the singers there is very little problem with feed back, and you don't need any monitor speakers because the singers and players hear the same thing as the audience. It sounds silly, but I have used this thing in a gymnasium with over 200 people and did not even come close to max power, and there was no distortion. And I have had audience as close as 5-6 feet to the satellites in small venues with not any complaints about volume, even those 30-50 feet away. This system was way ahead of it's time and did not catch on because in the early '70's it was all about big everything. The whole thing including my amp/mixer weigh about 50 pounds, which is nice for an old guy like me.
Curt, I have used an ipad. I convert the songs to individual wavs and they can be played in Garage Band or another program is Multitrack. In either case like the idea of being able to control each instrument/track.
If you want simple, export each song to one wav file and put it in iTunes and set up a folder for each set.
Once I tried exported each song to a single wav and then transferred the songs to my Boss RC3 loop pedal via USB cable. That thing can hold a ton of songs. The instructions in the pedal's manual list how to move from song to song. Worked pretty good but you need to get the songs set at the same volume before you move them to the pedal.
For the ipad, I purchased a Alesis I/o dock. It has a left and right out which I ran to two seperate channels on the board, panned one left and the other right. Nice stereo sound. I also set and armed two channel in the program I was using (multitrack at the time) which created live effects for my vocal and guitar. I could then blend myself with the other tracks/instruments. If you are by yourself, you can hit record during your sound check, lay down a song and then walk the room as you play it back. If you adjust the levels they will remain the same when you play live. Only concern... you need to do this for each song.
Hardware solutions such as the loop pedal are the safest. I always have a back up on my iPhone for each song. Technology has a way of failing when it counts most.
I am now working with Ableton live, which is set up mainly for this purpose.
To use in a live setting, I export from BIAB to a WAV file. Wouldn't want to rely on BIAB for live performance. I'm not familiar with the "looper pedal" or "mashine studio" so I can't comment on that.
I play my backing tracks directly from my laptop on stage. I use a PreSonus USB audio interface which sounds better than my laptop sound card and provides 1/4" outs to go into my live mixer. Using that setup, I don't have any problem with my tracks sounding "computer generated".
If you need more input, ask away.
Good luck.
Ditto. K.I.S.S. principle. Laptop with WAVs, backup files on Ipod.
I use an iPad with BIAB-generated lead sheets as well as scanned-in Realbooks on my iPad, using 'unrealBook'.
I usually play (guitar) with a clarinettist and a keyboard-player, but I've prepared MP3s for the majority of our BIAB repertoire with the melody suppressed, and a default of four choruses (head, clarinet solo, guitar solo, head).
This came in handy when our keyboardist (who supplies bass and drums as well as piano) fell ill and had to go home just after setting up for a gig. I was able to connect my iPad to an amp and run the tracks directly from the iPad with the lead sheet on the screen. unrealBook allows you to link any given chart to an MP3 file copied to the iPad using iTunes in the normal way.
There's no reason why you shouldn't use BIAB live from a laptop - we've done gigs that way too - but although this gives more flexibility than the pre-recorded MP3s it also gives more scope for error - e.g. forgetting to switch off the melody track, or using a file which has been tweaked for practice purposes and inadvertently saved at the end of a session.
My iPad will run for 10 hours on a charge, but if you want to connect one to a charger remember that you might have an earth loop causing hum (as you would with a laptop). Best to try it out on the equipment you're going to be using BEFORE you get to the gig!, and consider getting an isolating transformer (for the mains supply or for the line-out signal).
Thank you for your reply. Could you please briefly tell me the steps in taking a backing track from BIAB and moving it to a WAV file? I am looking in the help section, but I am not super technology minded. I am learning this stuff
My plan for now is to transfer my backing tracks to my BOSS RC 300. I play through that and my effects processor
Go to audio > then to burn an audio cd > DXi - Direct Render (in the box below place a check if you want one file per track or leave it open if you want one file for all tracks combined). The program will take care of the rest.
This is to answer your question "Does anyone use an IPad?"
I play guitar and sing, often at senior homes and private parties.
A few years ago my setup was playing "live" using BIAB backing tracks straight out of my laptop into my Peavey PA system. And I'd have to bring several binders of music which was a bit of a hassle if someone requested a song, and I'd have to locate it in one of the binders.
I now use an IPad, which has all of my backing tracks and all of my sheet music. It's very convenient. I connect the IPad to the PA system via RCA connectors.
I use an App called SetList Maker. With this App, it's easy to go from song to song, start the backing tracks with a push of a button, and start scrolling the sheet music with a push of a button. If someone requests a song, it's fairly easy to find it with the search function.
The backing tracks are BIAB files exported to M4a files. They are then loaded into the SetList Maker app when syncing the laptop using ITunes. The sheet music are pdf files which are also loaded into the App when syncing.
If you are not concerned with recording your own audio tracks, but are concerned with just using Band in a Box live for backing, the laptop's internal sound playback via the earphone jack, connected using a proper mini stereo connector that breaks out to the proper connect to your PA works very fine indeed.
--Mac
First, welcome to the boards, although we're a bit late with that.
We fully agree with what Mac said. We keep our projects simple and use very little equipment other than BIAB (2104 Everything Pak edition). We use Real band a bit but not much as we usually get what we're looking for in BIAB. Good luck with everything!
Don't think you're missing anything except you don't mention some decent speakers - I'd use what you have right now. the beauty of using BIAB 'as is' is that you can alter the tempo, loop the song, change the feel etc. to keep the gig going well. We've looped the intro of a song on gigs when our singer sin't quite 'ready' and other times we haven't - can't do that if you've made your backing tracks into a cd, or put them on an i player etc. Also, not that your public would notice, but I like the fact that each time I generate a tune, the real tracks are slightly different from the time before, which adds interest for us musicians! Finally, if you found a cracking bassist for a gig, simply mute that instrument and they can 'step in' - next time, if it's just you, un-mute it and off you go!!
Yep, what Paul said! We're so fortunate to have so many people willing to share both their knowledge and their experiences with the rest of us. To me, that's a huge bonus we get that's not substantially mentioned in the sales promos by PG Music. That makes the purchase even more intrinsically valuable.
I'm late to the discussion, but here's a point or two that hasn't been mentioned yet:
When deciding on a delivery method for backing tracks, the simplest answer depends on what functionality you need.
For example:
1) if you just want background music to play along with, the simplest delivery system is an MP3 player. (in all of these cases, I assume you will be sending output to an amp or PA system)
2) if you need to see sheet music, lyrics or other visual cues, you'll benefit from a device with a screen.. either an IPAD or a notebook computer
3) if you want to control lights, MIDI devices in synch with the music, then you'll need to play the song from sequencing software such as RealBand, Sonar, etc. Because the MIDI commands needed to control external devices can be embedded in the sequence file. This also requires a notebook or IPAD in conjunction with sequencing software.
Of course, even if you only need music to play along with, you can still use the device that is capable of more functionality. That way if you want to add functionality later, you will already have your set list in sequence files.
The nice thing about using an MP3 player is that they are cheap and you can always have a complete backup in your other pocket in case the first one dies.
I use a Boss RC 500. I play back the verse or chorus etc through the laptop and record directly into separate tracks in the looper. This allows me to be more flexible with the arrangement of the song. You could also record the complete song straight in, easy!
The Dawn 510 speaker system I mentioned in my post was at least partly engineered here in Wichita KS and later sold and is now largely extinct. I have two sets I bought on ebay and put in all new speakers. This unit has a sound dispersion that is fantastic. It has a down shooting woofer with a crossover out to two satellite 5 inch speakers that face up and have dispersion surfaces that nearly equal the Bose L-1. Placed behind the singers there is very little problem with feed back, and you don't need any monitor speakers because the singers and players hear the same thing as the audience. It sounds silly, but I have used this thing in a gymnasium with over 200 people and did not even come close to max power, and there was no distortion. And I have had audience as close as 5-6 feet to the satellites in small venues with not any complaints about volume, even those 30-50 feet away. This system was way ahead of it's time and did not catch on because in the early '70's it was all about big everything. The whole thing including my amp/mixer weigh about 50 pounds, which is nice for an old guy like me.
I realize this is an old thread. I really can't contribute much to this conversion. I don't do gigs, but build drum and bass guitar backing tracks with BIAB for my own entertainment. I have a Dawn MI510 speaker system and was glad to see another BIAB user also has a Dawn 510 speaker system. It's a great little unit.
Just my take on live performance. I export my songs into Dropbox. I use Stage Traxx and/or Onsong for my library of songs. Its very simple to import wav files from Dropbox into either of those. Sound Traxx even allows you to change the key of the wave file and tempo. Sets list are easy to create and lyrics/chords are very easily entered into both programs with Onsong having the edge for that particular task using chord pro making the lyrics simple to change key if necessary. Both apps are very user friendly and flexible but just having discovered Stage Traxx makes it my goto performance app. One off cost for Stage Traxx and annual cost..not cheap for Onsong.
Last edited by wish; 06/04/2409:44 PM.
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13 2019 and 2018 49pak Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer Alesis V25 controller
I use an IPad at performance. I play Instrumental Guitar with backing track combo (drums/bass/keys). I create an MP3 from biab tracks mixed and mastered in my DAW (Logic) I use AnyTune Pro to manage setlists, looping parts, etc. The best set management software I have found. I use the synch feature to keep a mirror (backup) on my iPhone should my IPad explode at the gig. I use Bluetooth feature both for linking to PA and a foot pedal controller (next/previous song, start/stop, loop on/off)
With a Bose Sp1 or Ev Everse 8 and a guitar I pack in and out in 1 trip.
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