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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,518
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I bet I can tell you how to get just as good of results a lot cheaper.
1. Get a media player (such as BiaB or RealBand), install your library of music you love.
2. Pick up YOUR instrument.
3. Play along with your favorite songs.
4. When you make a mistake, back the song up a few seconds and try again.
5. If the song is too fast, slow it down.
6. Repeat steps 1 - 5 until desired results are achieved.
Seriously, as long as I can remember there have been various learning systems but nothing works better than practice and desire.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (1124) RB (1) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064 |
My honest opinion is that a lot of this is BS!
One thing that caught my ear is the music education hasn't changed in over a century. Again BS! Look at all of the teaching aids around today. Many more instruction books, videos and Internet sources. Also some of the chord structure today is a lot different, in other words more complicated, than it was in the early 1900s.
Maybe someone with an extremely good ear could play the example he showed but the average guy probably not. Also with out some music theory they wouldn't know about inversions.
Many self-taught play by ear musicians do not have the proper techniques. I have seen this many times.
Every non-reading musician that I personally knew in the 60s no longer plays and hasn't played in a long long time. Everyone that could read is still playing. I should clarify that by saying every keyboardist, guitarist and a few horn players are still playing as many band musicians stop after high school or college.
Get a good instructor and practice, practice and practice. There are no short cuts. You must really want to play to put in the time to be a good musician.
A good instructor will teach the proper techniques, throw in theory, aim your lesson to your needs and what you want to play and teach you to improvise/jam.
Jim's method to play by ear is the best method. Today you have tools that slow the tempo but keep the pitch the same. We didn't have that or the tabs back in my day. I ruined a lot of my albums by listening to a short section of the song, picking up the needle, try to copy it, try to put the needle down in the exact spot and repeat. Scratch city!
My opinion is that a good musician can play, a better one can read and the best can read and improvise (play by ear) and to improvise they need to know some theory. I know that there are a few exceptions to the rule but not many.
YMMV
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
Agreed there is a lot of BS on the site. So many american sites go on this 'hold on, I am letting you into a secret... hold on....hold on some more... give me money, marketing BS.
AND
I paid the money and no PDF yet
BUT>>>
If this huy has a system for passing chords so that you can find a suitable passing chord for any chromatic tone, I should like to know.
I already have the theory. Lately I have been working 30 or so spirituals around all the keys on my (gorgeous) Hammond. I do this purely by ear. Basically it's all I IV V inversions. and melodic fills. I need to branch out to chordal exotica. If he can help me that would be worth the BS
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,769 |
Did you see the video on passing chords?
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064 |
I just listened and what I saw was theory written below the video, i.e. Amb5 etc. Again I still believe one should learn to play their instrument with theory and not fake it.
If one want to learn passing chords I would suggest some approaches that I myself use.
Study the jazz classics. There are some very interesting chord progressions in them.
Study chord substitution. For example substitute an Cmaj7, Am, or an Em for a C. Tritone substitutes are one progression to learn.
Try all kinds of chord progressions in BiaB. This approach I like and use a lot. It's immediate feedback.
Look for half step resolutions. This is an important one IMHO.
Also look for similar notes in passing chords, for example C to Ab to Am7 to D7 all have a C note in them.
There are a lot of free things that you can do and after listening to the passing chord video I think this is a money rip off. YMMV
PS - have you tried the ultimate passing chord, as named in a guitar magazine? It is a Caug/Gb. Yes that is C-E-G#-Gb. this is a perfect passing chord leading to a Fmaj7!
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,518
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,518 |
My honest opinion is that a lot of this is BS!
One thing that caught my ear is the music education hasn't changed in over a century. Again BS! Look at all of the teaching aids around today. Many more instruction books, videos and Internet sources. Also some of the chord structure today is a lot different, in other words more complicated, than it was in the early 1900s.
Maybe someone with an extremely good ear could play the example he showed but the average guy probably not. Also with out some music theory they wouldn't know about inversions.
Many self-taught play by ear musicians do not have the proper techniques. I have seen this many times.
Every non-reading musician that I personally knew in the 60s no longer plays and hasn't played in a long long time. Everyone that could read is still playing. I should clarify that by saying every keyboardist, guitarist and a few horn players are still playing as many band musicians stop after high school or college.
Get a good instructor and practice, practice and practice. There are no short cuts. You must really want to play to put in the time to be a good musician.
A good instructor will teach the proper techniques, throw in theory, aim your lesson to your needs and what you want to play and teach you to improvise/jam.
Jim's method to play by ear is the best method. Today you have tools that slow the tempo but keep the pitch the same. We didn't have that or the tabs back in my day. I ruined a lot of my albums by listening to a short section of the song, picking up the needle, try to copy it, try to put the needle down in the exact spot and repeat. Scratch city!
My opinion is that a good musician can play, a better one can read and the best can read and improvise (play by ear) and to improvise they need to know some theory. I know that there are a few exceptions to the rule but not many. YMMV While I admit I was trying to be funny (as in ha ha funny) in my response I really believe you just can't beat practice. You need to practice listening as well as practice doing. Like Mario, I ruined many records as I learned songs. One trick use to be playing a 45 rpm at 33 1/3 rpm to memorize a riff or licks then change back to regular speed to practice. Learning some music theory helps understand what you're hearing or trying to play. I agree with Mario that it is best to find a good teacher to help guide you through your musical journey but sometimes that is easier said than done. I can say that, from what little I know from the forum, I believe I would enjoy having Mario as a teacher and am sure his students consider themselves lucky.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (1124) RB (1) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,719
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,719 |
...
Seriously, as long as I can remember there have been various learning systems but nothing works better than practice and desire. Jim, you nailed it with those last three words. Trev
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,064 |
I can say that, from what little I know from the forum, I believe I would enjoy having Mario as a teacher and am sure his students consider themselves lucky. First thank you for the extremely nice comment! I'm positive that if we ever jammed together we both would learn something new. Of course it can be hard to teach this old dog a new trick 
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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