PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Woodshedding - Learning to Play! Proof that One Direction songwriters are studying the Beatles - you can too.

So, I have to admit that I don't think I've ever intentionally heard a One Direction song, but after this fairly thorough deconstruction of the song 'Olivia' and it's comparison to marchy Beatles songs, I have to say that I might have to pay more attention to them:
http://www.tuner.show/episodes/2015/11/22/5-if-i-needed-some-one-direction

A songwriting colleague of mine from the February Album Writing Month challenge hosts a website of a whole bunch of elements that the Beatles used to construct their pop/rock gems and this podcast above clicks into a couple of them. Matt calls his website: "Tickets to Write" and you might find it useful. I've used a couple of the tidbits to shake up my pedestrian songwriting like the Minor fourth and Minor 6th tickets.

http://beatlessongwriting.blogspot.com/p/tickets-to-write.html

Sensational find!

An enormous amount of research went into this. It's great that so many parallels were able to be made from The Beatles, whom set the precedence for much of modern days music.

Also, a great theory lesson to boot!

Good read. Thanks for posting.

I recently stumbled upon "Night Changes" by 1D. I thought it to be a good study for a BIAB cover project - I think it could be a great country cover. Simple progressions and great BG harmonies.

"Night Changes" by 1D

One little nit-pick then into the better.

In the podcast they refer to the Beatles as a boy band. The Beatles were NOT a boy band!

This will sound funny, but I had to help one of my daughters with an assignment on boy bands from different eras (she got to pick the subject).

One of the things we first had to do was to define what boy band is. And here is the difference. Boy bands have to be made up of all boys AND don't play their instruments. That's it!

So, 'N Sync, Backstreet Boys, One Direction, etc...all boy bands

Bon Jovi, 5 Seconds to Summer, the Beach Boys, just bands. Not boy bands.

Now, all of that being say (for a simple concept)....OMG! THANK YOU FOR SHARING BOTH OF THESE LINKS! Seriously! What amazing information to have on hand and organized!

That's a lifetime of great writing tips! I so can't wait to use these...when needed, not just because they are there!

Once again, Thank You!!!

Caaron,

The guy who compiled "Tickets To Write" is involved every year in February Album Writing Month, with me and a few other PGers and a few thousand hacks, pros and everything in between to write 14 songs in the month of February.

I mine "Tickets To Write" for inspiration every year, sometimes with success. Tuner is actually really, really well done. Take a listen to the other episodes.

There's ALOT of bellyaching on here that pop and rock songs of today just don't measure up to the past. That may be true to potentially a large extent, but then there are songs like this one that seem to pay tribute to great songwriting technique.

I found this article on one of this song's co-writers along with one of the one direction guys: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/one-direction-collaborator-breaks-down-groups-new-songs-20151111

It's also arguable whether the Beach Boys could really be included in the list of the other bands.

What the Tuner podcast guys did was compare them because they are also famous for their hair like the Beatles were. One could argue that the Beatles owe at least a portion of the screaming girl success because of their hair and looks, 10,000 hours in Berlin notwithstanding.

Anyways, Caaron, if you are into songwriting at all, you should try February Album Writing Month in 2016. There will be reminders from fellow FAWMers here on these boards most likely.

-Scott

I was going to PM you, as to not wanting to hijack the thread, but then I thought a bit more, and it's YOUR thread...so, maybe my questions would help other pg users.

14 songs. In 1 month (and a short one)? Am I understanding that correctly?

Is there any reason for the 14?



That's my plan for the weekend! I'm pumped to listen to this while doing some busy work around the house. I can't wait



See, this is where I disagree with people in general. I try not to be disagreeable, because (on here) it tends to happen naturally for me!

That being said, this is what I typically see. People tend to compare the best of the past with the mediocre or worst of today!

Notice, I didn't say popular. There are MANY popular songs that are awful!...at ANY time in radio history.

What you NEVER see happen is people compare something amazing from today to something amazing from the past....or something terrible from the past.

I also think people have a tendency to get closed minded with age. Music from THEIR era is the best! Everything before them was kind of lame and old sounding. Everything after is "just noise." That is generalizing, which is the VERY same thing these people do with music.

There is great music happening RIGHT NOW!

Then throw in the "haters." I seriously can't stand them, making me a "hater hater."...might be a song there.

I saw on facebook someone posted 2 days ago "You have to pick one. YOU HAVE TO. Luke Bryan or Kanye. There are NO other choices. Who do you pick. YOU HAVE TO PICK ONE."

I thought to myself, how lame and embarrassing. What are you stuck at 12 years old?

I have some professionals I work with that work with LB on my facebook friends list. He may not like him, or his music or whatever, but really? THAT is how some people spend there time?

Long story short, I sent a PM to him say "Man, I can't keep you on my friends list with posts like that. To me, it seemed childish, and honestly, you are better than that. While I still, obviously, see you as a friend, I can't have that kind of thing on my facebook feed for professional reasons. So with my unfriending, don't take it as we are not friends. We are. Just wanted you to know why I unfriended you."

Why not take the opportunity, if you are going to post something, to post "Which do you like better (Favorite band #1) or (Favorite band #2)"...the sad thing is, people would jump in with "I hate Favorite band #2...they suck!" blah blah blah.

So, I know what you mean. Some people are quick to hate. I'm ok with that. It actually creates opportunities for people who aren't!



Keep sharing this stuff! It's not for everyone, but I doubt I would know about it without you posting this! I really do appreciate it!



Absolutely! I always think of this though. The people who say "the industry now-a-days only picks people because of how they look. They have no talent." That's life. It's been that way for a LONG time.

But here's the thing, there have always been less attractive people making it anyway! So, it doesn't even make sense!

Hater's I tell ya!



Could you PM me some information for me to check out. A website or something. I'm still not clear on how it works. I would consider it, but if it is the 14 songs, I may not. I would be interested to follow it though.

I write SOOOOO much for work already that when I get a chance to write for me, I don't want it to be rushed or on a deadline. I need that "write to write" time to keep that love for it alive.

I am STILL very interested though, and would just need to know a bit more before making a decision.

Thanks for this post all the way around. I'm really enjoying it!

I forgot to ask about this. I know their work, and saw them in concert at a young age. Do they not play their instruments? I thought they did, but may be remembering that wrong.

The Monkees...boyband turned band.

Here is why it is easy to write 14 songs in 28 days (oh, 29 days in 2016):

Caaron,

I never experienced a Beach Boys concert in person before playing along with tracks was de rigeur, but my understanding has been that they were pedestrian players at best. I may have that wrong.

As for February Album Writing Month - participate and write as many songs as you like, whether that ends up being zero or 33.

www.fawm.org

Some of my favorite songs have come about in the two-day per song timing of this thing. Songs that entertain me, and have entertained a few others. One year, I decided I was going to do all children's songs. Here's one from that year where I used one of Matt Blick's "Tickets to Write" (besides the mellotron flutes):
https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/scott-lake-time-to-clean-my-room. I did that one at the dining room table. I used one of Matt's chord tricks. I'm not sure which one it is.

Here's a totally different one, again the two day 'pressure' can be inspiring. Here, I stepped outside my front door and there was the constellation Orion laying on it's side; hence "Rest ye, Orion" as the title.
https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/scott-lake-rest-ye-orion

And from a couple years ago, a small experiment on what can be done with a very minimalistic kick and hi-hat pattern.
https://soundcloud.com/rockstar_not/what-is-boom-tsick-1

You guys have me motivated. I really need to write a new album so maybe fawm is the place to do it!

"Olivia"
"This one is very near and dear to my heart. Harry, John [Ryan, co-writer] and I were in Westlake and trying to write one thing and came out with this. I don't know how it came out. We couldn't write anything for a couple days, and we couldn't focus. We were trying to write things, and they were bad. Then we would just laugh and order food and hang out. Then all of a sudden, at the very end of the day when Harry was going to leave, he was sort of saying the chorus phrase, so we just sat there and wrote it really quick. It came out really, really quick. That one was so fun because it has a full orchestra we recorded at Abbey Road: four trumpets, four trombones, three french horns, flute, clarinet, harp. That was an incredibly adult, musically indulgent song that we all had a lot of fun making. It makes me so happy. But 'Olivia' was Harry's genius."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/one-direction-collaborator-breaks-down-groups-new-songs-20151111#ixzz3uCfgWkO5
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
*****
Listening to the song, then the podcast and then reading this synopsis from a co-writer of the song, my take away of the Beatle influence in the writing was incidental at best and certainly not forethought. There was enough 'style' in the demo that steered the producers to copy Beatle techniques. So this ends up being more of how the song was produced rather than how it was written.

A recent instance occurred with one of my songs to demonstrate my point. I produced my latest post with BIAB with the key, tempo and chord progression just as I wrote the song on guitar. I chose BIAB style as close to the arrangement in my head as I could find. I auditioned it for my wife and she was politely underwhelmed. We discussed it and she noted it was another bland version of similar songs I'd written in the past. She suggested I find a way to make it more current and updated. We are both carolina beach music fans so I searched YouTube for a similarly structured two verse song. I found one, a solid #1 from last year and restructured my song with a BIAB style and instrumentation based on that structure. My orchestration ballad was transformed into an up tempo carolina beach music tune that is getting a nice reception from listeners. I think that's a similar story to "Olivia"

They do play their own instruments in concert. But also toured with a rather large entourage backing band and backing singers. Once Brian Wilson quit touring and his writing/arranging matured beyond the 4 chord surf model, the wrecking crew became the studio musicians and the touring Beach Boys learned and performed the songs in concerts but additional voices and musical instruments were required to adequately reproduce the studio sound.

The Beach Boys should be included because of the similarity of Brian Wilson's place within the Beach Boys to Lennon/McCartney in the Beatles. Brian Wilson was the direct influence that transformed the Beatles into a studio band rather than a touring band. Mike Love and Carl Wilson were overlooked in the studio very similar to Harrison and Ringo...

And the great info continues! Thanks! I'm lovin' all this!

Charlie, call it what you will. I won't argue whether it's writing or producing - there's gray area in between.

Let's just say that the song has heavy influences from Beatles' past songs and methods.

In any regard, there's lots of bellyaching on here that great music isn't being made by the 'button pushers' and so forth.

This song is actually a great pop song - and if Sir Paul had released it, note for note, track-for-track, but with his vocals - I think the critics would be raving.

-Scott

Two things...

1st--

Totally agree!

2nd--

I never knew your name was Scott. Very cool to know you a little better!

Now, on a different note, I have to say, this song is pretty awesome because I can really enjoy it AND my kids can too!

Not to mention, they see "Dad" as being pretty cool!

I totally agree about the Beatle influence too. I think the review and analysis was spot on. But after reading the interview with the co-writer, it seemed obvious they did not set down to write an 'in-the-style-of' Beatle song although that's what happened. We are all influenced by the music we listen to and that influence sometimes finds its way into our original writes. Beatle influence also still finds its way into productions. I agree also this is a great pop song and worthy of any attention Paul would give it. I think their "night changes" is an absolute killer song too.