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Ok, before I go too far down the rabbit-hole...
My normal setup for this sort of software involves using ASIO4ALL to output through the onboard audio support. Upon starting BiaB, I tried to use that driver, only to find that the ASIO outputs are disabled, presumably because BiaB (via the MS Wavetable GS synth) is already using the audio device.
No problem, I would certainly prefer to use a DXi/VSTi substitute, starting with either the VSC3 or the Cakewalk TTS1 (similar Roland-based GM2 synth). I got that to work, but apparently BiaB still has the MS synth active, because the ASIO outputs are aren't available. (It's playing the TTS1, but apparently through the MME driver.)
What's worse (or, more to the point, completely unacceptable), this condition persists after BiaB exits: my other DAWs/VST hosts can't use the ASIO interface until I reboot.
I need to get BiaB to:
1. completely ignore the MS Wavetable synth,
2. send its MIDI output to the DXI/VST I specify,
3. send the DXI/VST output through the (low-latency) ASIO4ALL driver, and
4. leave everything in a usable state when it exits.
Suggestions?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ooookay...three crashes and two reboots later...it's working. And I have absolutely no idea how or why.
It seems to be very persistent about using the MS Synth: even after it was working, I went through several cycles where it complained on startup that the Wavetable synth was in use, did I want to use the alternative MIDI out (LoopBE in this case), even though I had actually already selected LoopBE as the primary output...twice. Had to select 'none' and shut down, then reselect LoopBE and shut down again, before it would believe that's what I wanted.
Very odd, but I guess I'm ok for the time being. The main this is, now I can shut down BiaB and use something else without rebooting, otherwise it was refund time.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In the preferences do you have the use DXI box checked?
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2022, Realband, Harrison Mixbus 32c version 9.1324, Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
In the preferences do you have the use DXI box checked?
Yup. The MIDI connection between BiaB internal algorithms and DXI/VST plugins is about the only thing that is working right at this point.
The MIDI routing is very twitchy. I would expect the MIDI input (MAudio Keyrig coming in through a USB port) to be routed through to the DXI, just as in a normal host, but that doesn't appear to be happening. In fact it appears to ignore the MIDI from the keyboard entirely: the only time I see activity from it is if I turn off MIDI output entirely, but that takes out all audio as well. MIDI routing and audio routing should be independent, but it certainly doesn't act that way. And that whole MIDI/audio option dialog has me gun-shy, as it seems to crash the program about one time in three that I access it.
I tried the trick (from another thread) of using LoopBE to connect BiaB's MIDI out to an "external" synth (using the VSC3 VST running under VSThost), but that requires me to shut off the audio output from BiaB, since apparently ASIO4ALL doesn't support multiple feeds.
Not exactly a "plays-well-with-others" app, eh? I admit I've never used BiaB as anything except a standalone program, but I really expected better than this. (Just for reference: I checked my records and I originally bought it in 1990...upgraded in 1999, 2003, and three days ago.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Lee,
As far as I understand ASIO, it is a one-application-at-a-time system. Have you tried running BIAB using MME just see if it works ok? Also, are you using different ASIO drivers in your other applications or are you going ASIO4ALL for all?
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Try unchecking "Route MIDI Thru to..." in the MIDI selection window. Otherwise, it will route your MIDI input to whatever is highlighted in the Output window when Use DXi is checked. And you must have the Microsoft Synth highlighted at the moment...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Also, are you using different ASIO drivers in your other applications or are you going ASIO4ALL for all?
I'm using ASIO4ALL for everything: the RealAudio drivers for the motherboard chipset suck big-time on latency.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Productor Musical
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Productor Musical
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Quote:
Try unchecking "Route MIDI Thru to..." in the MIDI selection window. Otherwise, it will route your MIDI input to whatever is highlighted in the Output window when Use DXi is checked. And you must have the Microsoft Synth highlighted at the moment...
--Mac
Hi Lee, welcome to BIAB forum. Wht Mac say is a important check you can make. Also, if problem remain, It would be good if you could provide us with more information about your audio computer rig, operative system (XP, Vista,etc) hardware, is your a laptop or destop PC? you had tested or found the same problem in other computer/s ?. If some users here had a similar experience then they could helping out. About your comment "Not exactly a "plays-well-with-others" app" I can understand your disappointment but before hurry up conclusions I am for sure many here will want to help you to get a solution, trust that. I tried succesfully standars and also complex configurations with Band in a Box, like multiple VSTi and audio plugins, MIDI guitar and Audio recording at same time. I use vendor specific ASIO drivers for my audio/midi cards like M-Audio Delta 66, firewire 410 and Profire 2626, Oxigen 8 and Axiom Pro 49 midi controllers, etc. Also I use ASIO4ALL for the not asio audio engine budled in laptops and desktops PC. However I admit sometimes ASIO4ALL has given me some problem but always solved it with the invaluable support in this forum and specialist like Mac and others here with an incredible background in BIAB/audio field...and apparently an infinite disposition and good will to help. Count with us amigo.
cheers
Gabriel Arellano,
Nucleox Music
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Try unchecking "Route MIDI Thru to..." in the MIDI selection window. Otherwise, it will route your MIDI input to whatever is highlighted in the Output window when Use DXi is checked. And you must have the Microsoft Synth highlighted at the moment...
Already did that. My current configuration is:
MIDI input = KeyRig 49 In
MIDI output = LoopBe Internal MIDI
Use VST/DXI Synth (currently using TTS1, working)
Route MIDI thru is unchecked
ASIO4ALL running with 512 buffer size
Playing a song on BiaB sounds fine.
If I hit keys on the keyboard, I see them on the BiaB keyboard display, but no sound from the TTS1, nor any indication that it's getting MIDI events on channel 1. Lemme try something...ok, I can get sound if it's recording, but only while it's recording. I'm used to hosts where that feedthrough is 'live' all the time.
Forward progress, I guess.
[EDIT: In restrospect, that "route thru" box was probably checked back when I started this thread....unclicking it was probably the mysterious thing that got me to the next problem.
Last edited by Lee DeRaud; 10/01/09 03:25 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I tried succesfully standars and also complex configurations with Band in a Box, like multiple VSTi and audio plugins...
Ah, you anticipated my next questions. 
How do you set up multiple VSTi's and control which MIDI channels go to which plugin? (Might not be a big deal one way or the other: I anticipate moving MIDI files from BiaB to Reaper fairly early in the workflow...)
And is the internal MIDI mapping fixed? (I.e. is the soloist always on channel 8, the bass always on channel 2, etc?)
(Bear with me: I first used BiaB a very long time ago. Unfortunately, I also last used BiaB a very long time ago.)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Preset MIDI channels can be modified via OPT >> Preferences >> Channels.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
How do you set up multiple VSTi's and control which MIDI channels go to which plugin?
A quick scan of the manual is coughing up a lot of phrases like "a VSTi" or "the VSTi"...easy enough to add VST effects, but no (direct) way to stuff in more than one synth.
Guess it's ime to find out if I can find that VSTi version of energyXt that's hiding somewhere on the backup drive. This is gonna get ugly.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Productor Musical
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Productor Musical
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I use Chainer mainly when I need to set a standalone virtual rack of plugins vst/dirx in my laptop, something very useful to me in case of live shows or gigs. Chainer is a "...standalone application has 10 slots for loading VSTi and VST plugins for quickly testing and creating unique sounds which can be saved as presets and also recorded as audio files..." Also I used Chainer sometimes with Band in a Box with great results. However now I use Real Band when need more control and multi-track plataform while preserve BIAB main and interactive features like chord reading, Real Tracks/Drums and song construction. In Real Band is possible to manage VST/dirx plugins assigned to different tracks/buses and groups, also there is low latency real time monitoring (depending of your system) of plugins, great when you are processing voices with reverb or delay or a guitar with an amp/efx simulator. I confess I stay in the middle of my "honey moon" with RealBand, until now has been a promising partner not being jealousy of my long courtship with Cubase, Nuendo, ProTools and others members of my digital harem  .
Gabriel Arellano,
Nucleox Music
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Lee,
In BIAB, my understanding is that you can load up to 4 DXi/VST synths but can only have one active at any one time. I'm not sure of this, but I believe that RealBand offers greater versatility in this regard.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB can only address ONE MIDI output device at a time.
I see you are already using Loopback. This one has been on the Wishlist for eaons but we still have only one. There are other proggies out there that can serve as multiple VST hosts.
That said, I tried all that and now find it much more convenient to simply use a good MIDI output device that is GM compat when working inside BIAB, saving the mixed MIDI output stuff for the export to sequencer phase. Much neater and much faster in the long run.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
That said, I tried all that and now find it much more convenient to simply use a good MIDI output device that is GM compat when working inside BIAB, saving the mixed MIDI output stuff for the export to sequencer phase. Much neater and much faster in the long run.
I'm starting to lean that way. And I'd hate to have my Reaper learning-curve struggle go to waste...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I see you are already using Loopback.
For some arbitrarily low value of "use": it is truly astonishing how easy it is to get a MIDI feedback loop in even the simplest setup.
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If it was dead easy, it would't be worth doing.
Take your time. MIDI is complicated, but not all that complicated, you just have something new to investigate, study and learn. The web is full of good info, websearch up some basic MIDI tutorials, terminologies and the like. Study the manuals that come with your MIDI hardware and software, if you come across a term you don't know or understand, don't just gloss over it, use websearch to see if you can find out what exactly is meant.
BIAB takes time and there is a learning curve to it also. Same goes with Reaper or any other multitracking software.
For now, I recommend you use the VSC DXi that comes bundled with BIAB while inside BIAB. There are a lot more patches available than just the GM bank. Upper Banks are available as well as GS or GM2 also, selectable in the VSC DXi Control Panel. The BIAB FAQ and Help files can show you how to find and install the proper Patchmap for the VSC DXi so that you can select instrument patches by group from the upper banks. For example, see all the available Electric Piano patches in one group and audition them as the song plays back.
Plenty of very good production numbers have been done using "just" the VSC DXi from start to finish.
--Mac
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Quote:
Ok, before I go too far down the rabbit-hole...
Don't worry Lee, there's lots of us down that hole just bring beer...
It sounds like you're already experienced with general DAW work. Real Band is what you want to work with. I just posted this two days ago in another thread:
<Biab is great and it is the "flagship" program for PG Music but my advice to anyone relatively new to Biab is to learn to use Real Band at the same time as Biab. RB does so much more than Biab does alone that for me at least I use it almost exclusively now.
Just a few high points: 48 tracks to play with, RB will open a Biab file and generate new Biab tracks both midi and RT/RD, this means you can add multiple Biab tracks to a midi file, you can use multiple styles on a per track basis, multiple Real Tracks/Drums, 16 midi ports (Biab only has one) so you can use multiple synths in addition to the RT/RD's. And for 2009.5, they added the TC Helicon harmonizer if you already have it with Power Tracks.
This is just a quick summary, there's more.
Since Real Band is a full audio/midi recorder it's much better suited for full music production than Biab alone is, imho.>
The big thing here Lee, is RB cannot be compared to Reaper, Sonar or anything else because it's fully capable of using all the Biab styles, Real Tracks/Drums and generating original tracks in addition to the regular prerecorded midi and audio tracks you're already familiar with. Check it out.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Take your time. MIDI is complicated, but not all that complicated, you just have something new to investigate, study and learn.
I've been messing with MIDI since the MPU401 was invented, and IMHO it is bog-simple.
It's when MIDI software leaves undocumented exactly what it does w.r.t. thru/omni/local/etc that things get ugly. 
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