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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Feb 2015
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105 |
Hey, all. I've been playing jazz piano for years and I bought the jazz master class program. I think I might have had something wrong for years. In lesson seven about chord voicings, the teacher plays chords in the left hand while improvising in the right, which is something I've always wanted to learn how to do. He's using inversions and so the root isn't necessarily the lowest note. Whenever I play I've always got the root as the lowest note, sometimes with open voicings and I usually catch it with the pedal. But this has trapped me playing ballads, which I'm really sick of. This is all for solo piano, no other instruments. Have I had this wrong for years? Like if I play a G7 in the left hand as FGBD (from bottom to top) it still counts as a G7 chord? And I can also play rootless voicings and the root is implied? If this is what I've been doing wrong, this will completely transform my playing. Rookie doug 
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2003
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The answer is yes it is still a G7 chord. When the root of the chord is not the bass note the chord could be written with the bass note after a forward slash. For your G7 example it could be written G7/F.
This would be call an inversion. G7 normally would be written G-B-D-F. A first inversion would be written B-D-F-G, a second inversion is D-F-G-B, etc. The first and second inversion could be written G7/B and G7/D.
The bottom line is the notes in a chord determine the chord name, not the bass note.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
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OP
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This will completely transform my playing, then. If I don't need root note way down in the left hand (on piano) then I'm free to use the voicings I know to improvise! Woohoo!
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Jan 2002
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You've been mostly right - let's just get that out there in the open. Inversions are often used in passing chords, but in every modern style of music, jazz included, for piano-only playing or accompaniment, the majority of left hand action will still have the root of the chord as the lowest note. Inversions; as with any other chord choice tool; serve to keep things interesting, but if all you have is non-root inversions in the left hand, things can get outright meandering and boring because part of the way we hear always frames higher notes to the root of the chord; it's what gets our hearing 'home'. Resolution to the root is always needed to some extent. Have you ever studied the concept of 'pedal point' harmony? This is where there is emphasis on a note that is common to the family of chords in a song (though dissonant to a minority of the chords); very often in the bass register; or left hand. You can put the pedal up higher, but it's almost always the lowest note. Key however, is that there is almost always resolution and tension release to the key chord with lowest note root combination. Great wikipedia article on it here across all kinds of music. I typically use it in instrumental rock compositions. It can give an epic-ness (if that is a word) to a chugging song. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Doug, Like you, I'm a keyboard player. When I'm playing, there are two principles that I keep in mind... 1. If a bass line is being played by a friend on bass guitar or by Band In A Box, there is no need for me to worry about playing any bass at all. In fact, if I did play bass, it is more than likely that I will create bass-note conflicts with the bass line being played. Such low frequency interactions are uncomfortable for the listener. - For example: while C and E played together in the middle octave range (say above 200 Hz) sound fine, when they are played together as low-end bass, it doesn't usually work. Dissonant intervals in the bass are even worse!
2. If there is no bass-line provided, then my playing provides that. With the above in mind, while I don't have to jump down to specific bass notes all the time, it is necessary to keep bass movement in mind. The principle I always use is... If the bass note is a dissonace (any interval other than those below)... - perfect octave
- perfect 5th
- major or minor 3rd or 6th
...then that bass note would need to resolve by a step of either a tone or a semitone (usually by a step downwards). With this in mind, if I played your example of FGBD for a G7 chord in the middle octave of the piano, my next chord would have the lowest note E or Eb (this could be EGC, EbGC, EAC, EGB, etc.).
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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^^those are good rules to follow, particularly playing in a band with a bass player; you can often put your left hand behind your back.
Noel's rules about where the next note should be are good also if you are trying to establish a natural movement of the bassline.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
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OP
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Okay. Thanks everyone. I guess my classical upbringing has confused me about all of this. But this will help out a lot and actually get me improvising.
Doogiet
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Doug,
Don't be afraid to trust your ear. If it sounds right, it's ok.
All the best with your adventure!
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Good advice here.
A couple more comments, admittedly from a non-pianist:
There is nothing wrong with open voicing. Particularly in free jazz, it's sometimes easier to find a place for a solo over open-voiced chords.
Pianists often leave out not only the bass (if there is a bass player) but often can safely leave out some of the other tones, especially the fifth. The bassist will probably cover that, too, be it sharp, flat, or perfect. Guitarists leave out some chord tones all the time.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Expert
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Expert
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The answer is yes it is still a G7 chord. When the root of the chord is not the bass note the chord could be written with the bass note after a forward slash. For your G7 example it could be written G7/F.
This would be call an inversion. G7 normally would be written G-B-D-F. A first inversion would be written B-D-F-G, a second inversion is D-F-G-B, etc. The first and second inversion could be written G7/B and G7/D.
The bottom line is the notes in a chord determine the chord name, not the bass note. Thx, Mario. I've always wondered what those notations meant. Now I know. I notice you play the flat 7 in order, after the 5. This may be a quirky comment, but I'll make it anyway: I was lucky to have been pointed in the right direction. First, I learnd to read melody staffs. Getting serious about pop (country) years later I committed the twelve major 135 chords to memory. Using home made backing tracks on a multi track portable cassette recorder, committed those twelve keys to absolute memory by playing along with those 12 backups on the piano. Then, I found Band in a Box. Then I tackled the progressions, the 1-4-5. I recall what a breakthrough for me it was when I realized I could find the 1-4-5 by simply raising the 3 from the chord a half step. Now, wouldn't you think that would have been obvious to a student? No, for years, I counted out the rarely used progressions on my fingers.
Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --
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