PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Songwriting "The Making of a Number One Hit Today"

"Creedence Clearwater Revival " never had a number one hit in this country. But I recall hearing as many as five Creedence songs in the top forty at one time some times more.
Recently I listened to the present number one tune of the Billboard top 100 and I realized as song writers many of us are lacking an element in our tunes. We have no cuss words. The present number one song has the word Mother.....- in it four times...The number one song has the word ni... in it four times. It has the word sh.. in it one time..
Yet the song has been holding the number one spot for awhile.
Is this necessary for making a hit these days and is it desirable ? And is it possible some day we may be able to purchase real tracks with these hit making words already in them?
(On the lighter side)

Others who never made it to number one in this country are: "Led Zeppelin", Bob Dylan, The Who, Jimi Hendrix.... Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young...James Brown, and the Who. Any thoughts on the elements of hits these days?
C.Dan

I don't think that it's required at all. I think it has just become more acceptable be swearing in main-stream music now adays. These CDs if people still bought them as frequently would have explicit labels on them, I'm sure.

But teenagers do lead and drive what is made in to the number one hit. In truth, I don't think being the number one hit on the list is all that important. It's usually temporary, and a lot of the recent songs that make it to the top spot are very forgettable, while the songs way at the bottom of the top 100 list tend to have more flavour and character. But that's just my opinion and views. I may be slightly biased because I'm not a big fan of R&B, Hip Hop, Rap, etc. I can appreciate them for what they are, but I do not actively listen to them.

I can't be the only one of my generation who tends to not like the top 40s though. In fact, most of the people I know my age complain about them, so I can't really tell you why and how those songs get there, or what is unique about the writing in regards to song writing.

No billboard number ones for them...yes. But most if not all of them had multiple number one albums. I was around then actively buying music but never singles. The marketing for most of them was focused on album sales.

Ember nailed it regarding how youth drives the market or at least the number one Billboard market.

I think the number ones, by whatever the current metric is, like always tend to reflect the culture. Or at least that portion of it that buys pop music.

The Americana market is big and getting bigger. It’s what we’ve listened to for the last 25 years. There you can lose yourself in blues, alt country, folk, rootsy rock, bluegrass and more. Award shows and charts have joined the party. And BiaB has begun to release Americana styles and tracks. It’s our music world and a fun and enriching one at that.

FWIW and I mean no disrespect to anybody who listens to the music of their choice.

J&B

I would say swearing definitely isn't necessary for a number 1 hit. There are tons of hit songs these days without any swearing. As someone who personally listens to music with swearing in it, I think it's just become a lot more casual in modern music. It isn't taboo like it used to be. I'll find I can listen to a song where they say the 'F' word 10 times and I won't bat an eyelash since I'm so used to it and desensitized to it. I don't consider it a bad trait and honestly pay no mind to it.

I also agree with what Ember said in regards to modern music being almost a fad. Number 1 hit songs come and go so quickly these days. Me and Ember are the same age as well, and she's telling the truth when she says most people in our generation don't care for top 40 stuff. I've always wondered who exactly all this washed down top 40 music is appealing to, as I've actually never met someone my own age who is a fan of it.

Times are changing and we are becoming desensitized to a lot of things. I am old enough to remember students coming to school with guns in the gun racks of their vehicles. It is unthinkable now to see a student bring a gun to school. There is more blood and violence now than then in movies and music. Not much left to the imagination these days. Even with the freedom to use choice words some of us aren't a liberty to use all of the words. Like the "N" word.
In 2014 a song made it to position "19" on the billboard 100.
It had the "N" word in it 128 times and the "F" bomb in it around 12 times. With certain genres and artist it is accepted but with others it could start a political fire storm.
George Strait never used the word in any of his songs. He has had 61 number ones on the country charts and 86 songs in the billboard charts. The cool thing about George is..most of those songs were written by people like us....songwriters...
I am worried that technology and changing times will make it harder and harder for songwriters who write for other people and make a living at it.
It seems that changes must be made to keep up and actually profit from composing and writing and making a living at it. But Thanks to artist like George Strait, many writers have made a living at it.

Peace..out,
C. Dan

The only person I have ever known to enjoy most of the top 40 pop music is my mom, and she has nearly 25 years on me. But it's also the only music that she's exposed to; what's on the radio. Makes me wonder if it has less to do with the songwriting and more to do with accessibility to music. But then again, I still don't understand what gets those particular artists there in the first place.

It's probably because I'm getting older, but I'm of the opinion that if all you do is drop the F bomb repeatedly, then you really don't have much at all to say. Musically or otherwise.

And then when it might actually be appropriate (seldom), it won't have its intended effect.

Even was I was 16 I was under the impression that if you have to use vulgarity to create a sense of shock, surprise or emotion you simply can't write.

Of course plenty of famous playwrights and scriptwriters use the f-bomb every other word, but I am most impressed by people who can scare the living infernal hades out of you without ever using one vulgar word.

I'm not sure how I feel about that one, personally. Shakespeare used some pretty colourful language from his day and age and he was incredibly popular. He was saying the then equivalent of the "F"-bomb. Admittedly, that terms today just sound downright silly. And to his credit, Shakespeare was writing a lot of his plays for the average citizen (usually the poor and hungry). So take from that what you will! But it appears that colourful language has been around and popular in "main-stream media" for quite some time.

I don't personally agree with its presence, but the occasional F-bomb doesn't bug me much in song writing.

I've heard plenty of songs that used no vulgarity and still had nothing to say. Likewise I've heard songs that used vulgarity quite effectively. Great example is Pink's Perfect! Extremely powerful use of the F word (but she also has a radio version for those with weak hearts!)

Bottom line is write what you want to write and ignore those who are offended; you probably aren't writing for them anyway!

Bingo! This basically hits the nail on the head in terms of how I think about it. There's plenty of dumbed down songs with not a single curse word, and then the polar opposite. I personally don't think lyrics necessary NEED to play a major roll in the music either, but that's a discussion for another thread.

I truly believe in the freedom of expression. A person should be able to write what they feel or want. And indeed in this country we have this right. But lately the tide is moving towards changes. One group of people can freely use some words and everyone thinks its cool and therefore those writers and artist become filthy rich.
How ever when other groups use the same word...politics kick in and then that writer becomes a racist. And the word hate crime has started to bob up and down in the sea of turmoil that is rising.
The "F bomb" is doesn't bother me that much unless you put my mother in front of it.
It is the "N" word that I find confusing. Some artist throw it around and use it like trash. And they make a lot of money by doing so. But then when other people use it like trash, then the sh.. hits the fan.
But of course with today's thinking it just makes for more publicity.
And this causes me to feel a bit sad that the art of songwriting is becoming so low and it has become dependent on gimmicks and tricks to make money at it.
I see a future without song writers who write about real life and real experiences. A future without gender. A future without feelings, where songs will just be produced by machines. A future where music will just be generic.
Birds create music and they sing like they mean it. They have a purpose to making music that doesn't include the need for money.
Crickets jam all night long and they don't get paid a dime. They always put their best foot forward in the music they make.

C. Dan
(PINK FLOYD)…"WELCOME TO THE MACHINE"

First, those making money are not making money because of a word; it is a whole lot bigger than that. Second, unless you are black you don't get to use that word. Period. Full stop! And if you are white why would you even want to?


I find your last sentence quite amusing since here we are, conversing about software that runs on a machine and produces music for us! Or are you advocating that we abandon BIAB?

Hey Ember,


I said in my post that I know a lot of famous and successful people do it, I am just saying that I personally am most impressed when people can evoke terrifying or profound emotions without ever using a vulgar word in music, film, literature, whatever. Not saying what should be done or listened to or watched by others, just saying what impresses me.

I know what impresses me is of small consequence in this galaxy, but in the small time I have on this planet I tenderly treasure my privilege to be impressed by the things that truly impress me.

It is all I have.

You stated that people are making money because of the "N" word.
The chap who used it 128 times in his song made it to number 19 on the billboard charts. I am saying that a lot of music today relies on gimmicks and machines. The vocals many times are doctored to the max. Most songs have a hook. And with a lot of today's music the hook is the profanity. The hook and the current popularity of a particular style of music brings in the money. I am not advocating any thing for anyone here. I am just discussing songwriting. I dig for bits of knowledge. I am already a songwriter. I am looking to write a hit.
And It seems that writing a hit theses days relies on using a lot of profanity from time to time. And I find the "N" word extremely offensive. And using motherf'n in front of it really offensive.
And using those words for the hook in a song as a song writer seems to me a type of desperation. You say that the "N" word is never to be used by white people but it is white kids who are listening to the word and it is white kids buying the songs. If you don't want a particular race using it then don't sell it to them. Kids learn from adults. I believe myself that no one should use the word. But In this country we are free to sing whatever we want.
As far as Biab being a machine yes it is but so far it has been using real humans behind the music in its real tracks. We use those real tracks much like an artist uses session musicians to play behind their song.
When a time comes and Band in the Box does it all, it would be different. PG Music gives many people the session musicians they would normally not be able to afford and also supplies tools for those who can afford session musicians.
Video came along and changed music forever. Music used to be made to be heard. But now music is moving more to be seen. Instead of being something a bunch of hillbillies are making in some Ozark mountain pass, it is now being made on computers.
Some people write songs for fun. Some people write songs for other people to have fun. Many people write songs to make money.
The key is to be able to have fun and make money at the same time.
Although all of us in these forums are song writers and we are here to help other song writers, we are also in a way in a competition. That is to see who can create the best song ever and who can make the most money. BiaB brought us together.
We are like a family. A family of songwriters who use band in the box. I wonder if there is a BiaB festival where BiaB users gather and like jam all day long.

C.Dan

C.Dan, I have been following much of what you have been saying in various threads. I've been knocked pretty hard on this forum for giving advice where it's not asked for; so I will refrain from that.

The two things I will comment on though are :



In the 80's with the advent of MTV, that was by far, more the case than today. Don't get me wrong, video is still a big vehicle for music consumption. However, there is A LOT of music being consumed without video at all. A LOT.



This is a very narrow view of why people write. There are a good number of people that don't write music for either of the reasons you cited.

Some couldn't care less if they ever made a penny from there music.

Also, some couldn't care less if anyone else ever liked their music. They write their music to express themselves; regardless of outside approval.

As far as profanity in music; there are way more songs that chart every year that don't use a single word of profanity. If you feel you need it, go for it. If not, don't. It's that simple. Some people are given a "pass" for certain things like that; other's are not. That's life. It's not just in music.

There is SO much more to be concerned with in writing a hit song than if it has profanity or not UNLESS you are writing in genres that don't really allow that yet. You really won't find any F-Bombs in any radio country as of yet. The record companies simply don't allow it.

Just a few things to consider as you move forward on your journey.

And to be clear, go for it! I'm not in any way suggesting not to write the best song ever; or to make money at it.

You have to remember "Hear to learn" This is a thread about making a number one hit today. This thread really isn't about what it takes to be a song writer or what people like to write.
It is a discussion about creating a number one hit. I don't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers. I was discussing whether or not using the "N" word and the f-Bomb are important to getting to the top of the billboard charts. A hit song used to be counted by the plays on juke boxes and radio. Now days I believe hit songs are counted by the hits they get and sales (I guess) I am here to learn.
So radio play may count also. But there are some number one hits out there that nobody ever gets to hear. Myself I would like to make money writing songs, but that's not my first reason for writing. Actually I don't really write at first. I either have lived it, know someone who lived it, know someone who told me about someone who live it, or I make it up from my imagination. First I think it, then I write it down...I prefer to scratch it out on a piece of paper before
I ever put it in a computer or type writer. I have never started or written an entire song from scratch on a computer..they are all scratched put on some piece of paper some where. And I have a few songs that I haven't finished that I have lost.
Making songs is like having a hangover with me...I get to feeling a lot better when it all finally comes out.

But I love it, C.Dan
And I love criticism...so don't worry about pourin' it on me.
But I do stick up for what I believe..
Remember the lyrics from the Jakyl song: "Push Comes to Shove"
"Your political correct world, isn't correct I've found"

The Hot 100 (the Top 100 is long gone) is in effect a compilation chart being fed by multiple genres and even it is about to change yet again as evidenced by this link:

Upcoming Changes to Hot 100

The algorithms for chart placement have changed so frequently that IMO it’s hard to determine what the “top” songs are. If I was musing over how to write a number one song - hahahaha - I’d be focused on the metrics for my particular genre. And there are plenty available, e.g, Americana, multiple rock sub genres, and many more. Get lost in the one you’re most comfortable with and listen, play, write, produce, track the song positions - all is good.

Cussing has always been considered being cool to young people remember the Red Fox tapes, all cussing, you have to get over the young people fad to grow enough to understand art. Simple as that usually.

C. Dan,

I think this particular thread has finally pushed me over the great divide (not your fault) but it feels good and I feel a whole lot lighter.

In short, I have become so obsessed with the sound my guitar makes plugged into a twin reverb, or my old acoustic with a Dean Markley pickup on it, and my piano, that I can't pull my head out of the mixing board anymore.

Realizing it takes 2 hours a day to stay good on the guitar, 3 hours a day to stay good with songwriting and 3 hours a day to keep up with mixing, I am now wondering what in the hell I was doing spending so much time conversing about hit songs and a whole lot of other stuff when it no longer makes any sense to me to do anything but play.

So, I think I am going to stick to the song posting boards, and stay focused on writing the best songs I can that please me, because come to think of it, I really don't care that much what anything else thinks about anything anyway.

Here it is: the world is totally nuts and it will never change.

But, thanks for setting me free, Dan. C.

Hallelujah I have seen the light.

No more chat boards.

Only fretboards.

Come on Jesus, let's do this thing.

Y'all have a good time on here. I got some picking and prayin' to do.

I will be prayin' that everybody writes the songs they want to write and forgets the rest of the nonsense, realizing, as Saint Paul did, that I have been the worst offender.

Bless me Lord for I have sinned, but I shall sin no more.

Well, not as much as I used to.

Maybe some, but not that much.

I think y'all know what I mean.

Maybe.