PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Beginners Forum A few noob questions on BIAB.

rharv, I had to think about this because it's been quite a while. Yes, RB uses temp files but it doesn't allow you to save them with your current project so when you go to save your SEQ file it just saves it. There's is no option asking you what you want done with those files.

What Audition does is keep all your edit files readily accessible as you're working so you can make a change like cutting and pasting a piece of audio and it happens at the speed of your mouse click. I used to think, wow this Audition is so much faster than RB but it really isn't.

In Audition if you're moving audio around on a 16 track project over several hours you could have over a hundred of those temp files or maybe they're virtual instance program files, dunno. When you're finished and you want to do a final save you can't without telling it what you want done with those files individually. Flush is the main option and it can take some real time to flush a hundred files because they're not simply being deleted, each edit is now being rendered permanently. RB is doing that render as you work so at the end it's already done, all you do is hit save.

It's these sorts of things that makes it so difficult to compare DAW's. They all do things differently and it can take a part time user like most of us here years to figure all that out. You think this one is better than that one because you haven't figured how that other one really works yet.

Bob

"part time user like most of us here years to figure all that out"

Maybe it is partially because it was/is written a bit clunky...just maybe a little?

You have a PM.

Yeah, so what everybody knows it old code. Show me a piece of music software that isn't. I guess all I'm basically saying is all this has been discussed before many times, just use the Forum Search function. Once you've found a 10 page thread on this stuff if there's still something new you want to add, feel free. A new post will bump a multiyear old thread right back to the top of the list.

As for other music software visit the Cakewalk forums, Studio One forums, Cubase forums, Pro Tools forums and any other DAW forums and see what those users say. Same stuff, different flavor. They all have issues. So does Apple stuff, Microsoft stuff, business software and any other kind of software you can think of.

I think the Studio One developers said it right. They're all ex Cubase people and they said that Cubase is (or was) also very old code with tons of legacy stuff built in and most of the issues cannot be fixed without a complete rewrite which is very expensive. That cost would, of course get passed on to the users. I think it's the same thing here with PG.

Nobody here has said these programs can't be improved, the question is how and is it feasible.

Bob

"A new post will bump a multiyear old thread right back to the top of the list. "

No discussion usually happens at cemeteries. I will enjoy those quiet hours when my turn comes

Bob, an interesting thought... Most people who answered my posts gave their essence, a weighted perspective on the stuff that had been talked about and scattered all around for years in various places under various threads. And lucky me got a thin, but very tasty piece of that cake (Thank you folks who helped!). In short period of time, I gathered a ton of useful knowledge about the program / background and community. It is good to know that some people are willing to help and explain things that might seem trivial to some.


"how and is it feasible"
of course it is. Nothing is impossible. Maybe not overnight. Got to be brave, that's all.

You could use midi to qwerty (see Tips n Tricks) to send Ctrl+Enter (and <L R>) from an assigned midi key, or AHK to send it with the middle mouse button.

I could probably add that to the chord picker tool with AHK as there is some MIDI IN support.
How would you need it to work ?

pipeline, Thanks for the offer! It is not crucial, I was just wondering what is the true reason for not to being able to enter chords right from keyboard or from loopBe1?

Can't speak for programming decisions by PGMusic, but it seems to the reason is so that you can select the chord you actually want from a list of 4 possibilities, rather than just accepting the first interpretation.

jford, by 4 possibilities you mean beats in the bar?

No, I mean that when you enter a chord on your keyboard, you can potentially get up to 4 possibilities for what you played.

From the user manual:



I would suggest entering a feature request on the wish list if you wish to have it automatically enter the chords if you use method 1. And I suspect the reason they don't already do it is because you are probably the first one to request it.

And see image below:

John, thank you for very detailed explanation!

I am already afraid to post "birthday wishes" to the wishlist not to awake green giants
In reality, yes I believe there should be an option of just "chording" things easy way and then fool around with it once it is more or less laid out.

I feel there also should be an option to be able to see and enter chords to the 4 (3.etc.) beats in the bar straight, not through the menu or ",". So the bars are divided by beats that are able to accept changes. Again a mystery for me.

Something like Pipeline's chord picker that is fully integrated and has an option to enter chords straight from controller would be ideal. Hopefully somebody at PG realizes that his tool is very useful and should be included in the program.

Thank you,
Mike.

You can do that with www.RapidComposer.com it will enter the chords from your midi keys as it plays, it's on special til 24th. It will run in VSTi mode in BB. You can then export and import to BB.
Sorry after years n years n years of wishing in the well and suggesting features that don't happen I just immediately look for workarounds. PG is in a bit of a time warp so you need to allow a 10-20 year difference.

Maybe I'm missing something here, something I just don't understand that could be really cool.

Here's how oh don't know 99.5% of users enter chords.

The first set of instructions is for two chords per bar.

1. Put your cursor in the first half of Bar 1.
2. Type in the chord eg C7. Hit enter.
3. Type in the chord in the second half of the bar. Hit enter.
4. Rinse and repeat.

Now for 4 chords per bar.

1. Put your cursor in the first half of Bar 1.
2. Type in your chord eg C7 BUT also hit comma.
3 Type in your second chord (beat 2) of the bar. Hit enter.
4 Type in the third chord and hit comma.
5. Type in the fourth chord and hit enter.

Now you guys are also talking about chord types, right? Have you looked up the keyboard shortcuts for that? eg the letter J for a Maj7? Or for a sharp (#) no need to hit the shift key for 3, you just hit 3 and Biab knows it's a sharp.

This is as brain dead easy as it gets. It sounds to me like all this is about reinventing the wheel. There are little conventions you have to learn like if you want a G raised 9 chord you can't type in G#9 you have to type in G7#9. Is that so difficult to figure out?

A thing to remember is Biab is based on midi, all midi as far as notation, entering chords and chord names are concerned. Biab also follows standard musical convention. You can have a basic simple chord (to you) called several different names and they all can be technically correct. Like a C13 also being Gm9. Why? Because the arrangement could have a passing G for the bass note for one beat so from a midi point of view that chord changes to the Gm9 even though "everybody knows" it's still a C13. You can take all the relatively basic chords like 7ths, flat or sharp 5's flat or sharp 9's etc and by throwing in a different bass note change them to all kinds of very weird looking chord names.

Big band charts are notorious for that because the horns can have have tons of accidentals and a total nerdy and picky music transcriber can write out something like Em7b5#11 A7b13 to a Dm whatever to a G whatever when all it really is is a basic Em A, Dm G in the key of C turnaround. A good player will ignore all that kind of stuff and just play the correct chord.

I have some downloaded Biab songs where someone wrote out all those extended chords and probably expected Biab to somehow play all that crap. This is one reason for the Jazz Down the chords function and now the "simple arrangement" functions. Or, if you want to experiment let Biab do the Jazz Up the chords and it can give you some interesting (or not) chords.

This brings up another point. Biab is NOT designed to play exactly what you want it to play based on specific chord extensions you put in. It doesn't work that way. Look at the advertising. It talks about Biab being an INTELLIGENT musical program. It is SUPPOSED to take what you give it and interpret it somewhat like real musicians would do in a band.

When good players like Matt or Herb talk about Biab being a great songwriting tool it's because they're playing all the important and essential parts of their original songs. Biab does not create that stuff for you. It gives you some great sounding backing or bed tracks to back you up to allow you the player to do your thing.

Bob

Bob, I see where you are comming from. And your thoughts are valid.
You are right, it is not "difficult" to input the chords as it stands.
But it could be greatly improved. Particulary chord builder. It just sucks how slow and not intuitive it is. I do my backing tracks mostly by ear, so for me, that is probably much more important than to you.

I believe the culprit of misunderstanding is that you are expressing your point of view basing on workflow that you are familiar and comfortable with, not taking in the account that there are many other interesting (and some would argue better) approaches in the wild.

P.S. If I will have some spare time I will make a sketch sometime in next few weeks and post it to wishlist of a chord builder that I think would be a better choice than current.

Old dogs new tricks ?

In the wild what? Of course I described what I'm familiar with. How did I become familiar with it in the first place? Because that's how Biab WORKS. It's in the manual and Help files man, I didn't just think it up.

What you're talking about goes here Wishlist

You can post all the suggestions you want there and the developers will read them. Who cares what we think in this thread, it's the developers who matter not us. If you really care then go there and post.

People have gotten on me about gently chastising noob's for posting stuff in the wrong forum when the rules of each individual forum are clearly spelled out in the FAQ at the top. I actually read those FAQ's years ago before I wrote my first post.

I know what you're thinking. If that's the case why hasn't anybody said anything until now? Well I used to but too many long time regulars including some beta testers just start replying and answering questions anyway, that's why. It's like what's the point of the FAQ's if even long time regulars ignore them? I gave up and joined in but now I'm telling you about it because this is getting ridiculous.

This is a perfect example of why things should be in the correct forums. People interested in comments about what's wrong with these programs and discussions about possible fixes are not going to be looking in the Beginners forum.

What do you think a beginners forum is for? Is it a forum for you to go on and on about all the things you don't like about the program, how it's all old code and should be rewritten? Stupid me, I think a beginners forum is for a beginner who's having trouble with the basics like how to get the program to make sound and how to enter a chord and hit Play. Illogical, I know. If only they had another forum for more advanced topics. Oh, they do it's the Band in a Box for Windows forum! Wow, what a concept.

Oh btw, here is the long thread about why isn't Biab 64 bit and on the first page is Peters answer about that which I mentioned earlier 64 bit

Bob

Bob is the local law officer here in the forum, telling you what can be done, what can't be done, where it can be done, where it can't be done.
It's been going on for years n years. If you stay on his level he will leave you alone, but if you dare go beyond that look out.
I think it's those few too many drinks that makes for long pontificating posts.
Again old dogs new tricks ? I don't think so.
It's a lot of the reason why BB is stuck in a time warp in this little neck of the woods.
You need to encourage new users with new ideas, not put them off from ever coming back, that happens so many times here if you look back at post.
A new user arrives and suggest ideas to improve thing and he is jumped on like a ton of bricks leaving only a few post and never heard from again.
Why does this culture prevail ???

Why not simply play, record and save your song or sequence of chords you want to import into the BIAB Chord chart as a MIDI file and import the MIDI file? BIAB will automatically decode the MIDI chords. I don't understand the need for a program like RapidComposer to be an additional step in decoding the chords from your midi keyboard as it plays.

You need to encourage new users with new ideas, not put them off from ever coming back, that happens so many times here if you look back at post.


BIG PLUS 1

Bob, until couple of people shuffled the cards on this post it was simply a noob question #5 on the first page. John(Jford) explained / answered it clearly. If they (some posts) bother you so deeply, maybe... just do not read them or reply to them. Use this time for better causes, like to make music?

Sorry, but I like to do some things differently from you. Some of my wishes iterlace with items on my question list that is why it is appropriate to have a converstion in already established thread, rather than starting a new one.