So with all the forum discussions about streamlining/enhancing/improving your workflow with DAWs, and particularly Reaper, I made a quick video to demonstrate how easy the process is. (Note that the process for transferring tracks from Realband to Reaper is identical, as Realband has the same drag-and-drop features/functions in this regard).
There are some things I discussed regarding MIDI that I subsequently realized did not apply to the particular demo track I used, so please watch the video through to the end where I inserted an addendum before jumping down my throat in the comments…
Also, I apologize for the distorted audio and pops and crackles you may hear at certain points. I only realized after I recorded this video that my microphone boost was set at max :-(
I really hope this helps some of you folks out there. Please do let me know in the comments whether more videos would be appreciated and what topic(s) you would like to see covered. As a busy family man with an unrelated day job--which more often than not bleeds into the evening as well--my time is rather limited. That said, there are so many exciting things that can be accomplished with this program when you start applying bleeding-edge plugins developed for EDM and Trap, and, by using MIDI in certain ways, you can get quite astonishing results I never would have thought possible when I first discovered this program some years back. In short, I'm really honored to share some of my discoveries with you guys (who, as someone who simply plays guitar and bass now and then, I consider the REAL musicians and composers!)
Finally I'd like to note that my YT channel is not monetized (at least as far as I know since I never changed it from the default settings) and I'm not looking for likes, subscribes, or shares…I'd just be thrilled if I can give back to this wonderful community that's so incredible, supportive, and overall friendly, and has taught me so much!
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I found your video helpful, and left some questions on YouTube about BIAB's conversion of files to MIDI.
I thought that I would include the questions I had here, as well, as others may read them on this forum without having to watch the video.
Thanks again.
Why will BIAB only render to MIDI the instruments which are underlined in the list at the top of the screen? Is this a deliberate limitation, 'encouraging' people to buy more tracks?
Is there any way of changing those instruments which are unable to be changed to MIDI at the moment, so that they will actually be rendered as MIDI?
I notice in your example that the strings are not able to be rendered to MIDI. Is this the case for all strings in BIAB?
"If The Beatles or the 60's had a message, it was 'Learn to swim'. And once you've learned - swim!" John Lennon
Why will BIAB only render to MIDI the instruments which are underlined in the list at the top of the screen? Is this a deliberate limitation, 'encouraging' people to buy more tracks?
I don't think it's a deliberate limitation, it really has to do with whether or not "RealCharts" are written into the tracks, which I imagine takes a substantial amount of time and effort to do, so PGM is selective about how many tracks they write RealCharts for.
Quote:
Is there any way of changing those instruments which are unable to be changed to MIDI at the moment, so that they will actually be rendered as MIDI?
In theory, no. But I've actually managed to this with a fair amount of accuracy some monophonic instruments (e.g. trumpet, lead guitar) by rendering audio to MIDI, which is a new feature that came out in BiaB 2018.
Quote:
I notice in your example that the strings are not able to be rendered to MIDI. Is this the case for all strings in BIAB?
As a MIDI supertrack, the strings track already was MIDI and hence did not need to be rendered.
Finally, I'd like to point out (and I forgot to in the video, that I had populated the "Piano" slot with an audio loop and not a Realtrack, so ofc that was the reason that patch did not render to MIDI.
Editing to add that I address how to know before loading a track whether it has a RealChart (which can be either in standard notation or tab and std notation) at about 3:15 of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Jyd1Y7u6MI
Last edited by DeaconBlues09; 10/10/1810:42 PM.
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Thanks for the video. Whilst I don’t use the export feature (I export to wav and pull them into Reaper) what I do have set up is the SWS Auto Color and Icon layout under the Extensions Tab. That way as I pull the tracks in they often get the appropriate icon and my preferred track colours. Where I have a different instrument to what is in the native BIAB (eg if I have a guitar in the piano track in the BIAB mixer field ) I simply change the name to correct it. I also have markers etc colour coded in the same place that way I can run though once stop start add Markers and they have the colours I want. It all makes life easier.
My thoughts Tony
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Thanks for the video. Whilst I don’t use the export feature (I export to wav and pull them into Reaper) what I do have set up is the SWS Auto Color and Icon layout under the Extensions Tab. That way as I pull the tracks in they often get the appropriate icon and my preferred track colours. Where I have a different instrument to what is in the native BIAB (eg if I have a guitar in the piano track in the BIAB mixer field ) I simply change the name to correct it. I also have markers etc colour coded in the same place that way I can run though once stop start add Markers and they have the colours I want. It all makes life easier.
My thoughts Tony
Hi Tony, That is very interesting.
I am sure that once I purchase BIAB (waiting for the new release), I will re-post here with questions for you and DB09.
"If The Beatles or the 60's had a message, it was 'Learn to swim'. And once you've learned - swim!" John Lennon
Thanks for the video. Whilst I don’t use the export feature (I export to wav and pull them into Reaper) what I do have set up is the SWS Auto Color and Icon layout under the Extensions Tab. That way as I pull the tracks in they often get the appropriate icon and my preferred track colours. Where I have a different instrument to what is in the native BIAB (eg if I have a guitar in the piano track in the BIAB mixer field ) I simply change the name to correct it. I also have markers etc colour coded in the same place that way I can run though once stop start add Markers and they have the colours I want. It all makes life easier.
My thoughts Tony
This is really neat, Teunis. I've only used the SWS extensions for sampling and sequencing type stuff and using MIDI notes as "switches." Thanks for pointing this out!
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Good communicating, Deacon. My involvement in Reaper accelerated after I was challenged to adjust 12 Band-in-a-Box Wavs to the same effect; namely, knocking down some of the mid-range on the guitar tracks. The project folder has 12 numbered sub folders, one for each song. Each song folder contains three sub folders of its own. They are: 1) Sheet music production: Here is Crescendo (free from NCH,) which is a scoring program, MS Paint, and Scribus, an open source high end desktop publishing program. The scores are produced in Crescendo, snagged and opened in Paint, where the words are added. The product is a JPEG. 2) Band-in a Box. This is where the original SGUs (note that is plural) and WAV tracks are stored, after each has been assessed in the on board mixer. If it gets crowded, the SGUs may be filed as well. 3) The Reaper folder. Each song has an RPP. The WAV files that have not been eliminated are transferred to this file. That step is necessary because those WAVs are going to show up in the explorer window. A key file carries the name "bounce." That's the compiled WAV which has been run through the Reaper mill. There is one last step, and that is to convert the bounced file with Switch, audio file converter to high quality CD. ============= That bounced file is now pasted into the songs master folder. That song folder now has the three subfolders and two files. The two files are a bounced and a converted WAV and JPEGs of the score. Let's say a change must be made in the score. Open the JPEG in MS Paint, make the change, save it, and that change automatically shows up in the Scribus, which has an easy export to Pdf. The same goes for any of the audio files. Identify the problem, locate the source, and make the correction. Then put the corrected file through the paces. ============= I transfer the 12 WAVs into a digital recorder as a matter of preference. This process is leadiing up to another bounce, where the heads and tails are cut, and the volume is adjusted. The WAVs are then played into the recording platform of choice, right and left channels.
Anyone see any holes in this method? Once the process has been set up, it actually saves time and surprises.
... I transfer the 12 WAVs into a digital recorder as a matter of preference. This process is leadiing up to another bounce, where the heads and tails are cut, and the volume is adjusted. The WAVs are then played into the recording platform of choice, right and left channels.
Anyone see any holes in this method? Once the process has been set up, it actually saves time and surprises.
..........................
Tony, You lost me at the part quoted above.
Why the transfer to the digital recorder? i.e., why not stay in Reaper for this cutting the heads and tails and adjusting the volume?
And why play the WAVs into the recording platform 'live'/in real time, using an analogue (physical) connection?
"If The Beatles or the 60's had a message, it was 'Learn to swim'. And once you've learned - swim!" John Lennon
Good communicating, Deacon. My involvement in Reaper accelerated after I was challenged to adjust 12 Band-in-a-Box Wavs to the same effect; namely, knocking down some of the mid-range on the guitar tracks. The project folder has 12 numbered sub folders, one for each song. Each song folder contains three sub folders of its own. They are: 1) Sheet music production: Here is Crescendo (free from NCH,) which is a scoring program, MS Paint, and Scribus, an open source high end desktop publishing program. The scores are produced in Crescendo, snagged and opened in Paint, where the words are added. The product is a JPEG. 2) Band-in a Box. This is where the original SGUs (note that is plural) and WAV tracks are stored, after each has been assessed in the on board mixer. If it gets crowded, the SGUs may be filed as well. 3) The Reaper folder. Each song has an RPP. The WAV files that have not been eliminated are transferred to this file. That step is necessary because those WAVs are going to show up in the explorer window. A key file carries the name "bounce." That's the compiled WAV which has been run through the Reaper mill. There is one last step, and that is to convert the bounced file with Switch, audio file converter to high quality CD. ============= That bounced file is now pasted into the songs master folder. That song folder now has the three subfolders and two files. The two files are a bounced and a converted WAV and JPEGs of the score. Let's say a change must be made in the score. Open the JPEG in MS Paint, make the change, save it, and that change automatically shows up in the Scribus, which has an easy export to Pdf. The same goes for any of the audio files. Identify the problem, locate the source, and make the correction. Then put the corrected file through the paces. ============= I transfer the 12 WAVs into a digital recorder as a matter of preference. This process is leadiing up to another bounce, where the heads and tails are cut, and the volume is adjusted. The WAVs are then played into the recording platform of choice, right and left channels.
Anyone see any holes in this method? Once the process has been set up, it actually saves time and surprises.
..............................
Hi Edshaw,
I must confess that I'm struggling to see what each of these steps accomplish, and, as I'm no expert myself, I'm very intrigued.
Re 1: Sheet Music) Why would you export to JPEG from your scoring program? Why not export to MIDI? Reaper has been supporting an editable notation view/mode since (IIRC) release v5.
Re 2: SGUs). That needs no explanation, ofc.
Re 3: Reaper Stuff) Each project directory (assuming you set up your project folders so that everything is saved in subfolders to the same folder) will have WAVs (assuming that's the format you selected in the project settings) and RPP files regardless. As someone who owned a Korg digital 4 track in the early naughts, I understand the concept of bouncing, but why is that necessary in a DAW like Reaper where you have infinite tracks and subtracks available? Regarding converting bounced files, why not use Reaper's brilliantly configurable render functions?
As for the last bit, your score can be edited in Reaper (and then even printed from there), any adjustments you need to make with fade ins/outs, tails, volume adjustments, etc, can be accomplished by editing your tracks, setting volume and FX automation lanes, and even overdubbing mixer/FX parameter moves in realtime w/o affecting the original audio.
Again, I'm a relative newbie and hobbyist compared to most the folks here, so if I'm missing something, I would love to hear more!
Best,
DB
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1) My answer to that is to give the WAV the benefit of running the signal through two high end audio processors, especially when using a multi channel digital recorder. I've been a TEAC fan since reel to reel, and safely claim TEAC audio file handling is second to none. Only Sony can compare. Any of those units inherited analog circuitry. They had to. They all have code/decode, codecs, to enable playing WAVs. I'm saying do not overlook Reaper's bounce function. There is my answer, for better or worse. Each of us has invested great time and money in recorders and/or computers that we feel can do the job. Why cut that input benefit out of the loop just to save a little time? Starting with a great product, the BiaB WAV renderings, and tweaking with Reaper is a combination I've seen grow with forum members here. 2) I know this is off the track. I probably should not have brough up the subject of lead sheets, but, since I did, With respect to workflow described to produce lead sheets, hardly a practice session goes by but that I don't make one or more corrections to the existing scores. After taking the first image exported by Crescendo and transferring (snagging) it to Paint, I never returned to the former way, especially as concerns text. If the Paint files look a little degraded, not to worry. The Pdf conversion takes care of that.
User Pipeline should see this, me thinks. If ever there was a Reaper enthusiast around here, that would be him
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User Pipeline should see this, me thinks. If ever there was a Reaper enthusiast around here, that would be him
Hi Icelander, Thanks for mentioning Pipeline as someone who is a Reaper enthusiast.
And to know about you, too - I presume that you, too, are a Reaper user, given that you posted on this thread.
It is useful for me to know about people around 'here' who use Reaper as I plan to really start using it properly in the next little while, and will probably have many questions.
I am also on the Cockos forums.
All the best,
Geert
"If The Beatles or the 60's had a message, it was 'Learn to swim'. And once you've learned - swim!" John Lennon
I presume that you, too, are a Reaper user, given that you posted on this thread.
Have to disappoint you there, never even used it or seen it. I just saw the term Reaper and immediately thought Pipeline, that's all. This thread was actually promoted on PG's front page, or props are I would've ignored or missed it altogether.
Last edited by Icelander; 10/22/1805:25 AM. Reason: Correcting mistakes
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
User Pipeline should see this, me thinks. If ever there was a Reaper enthusiast around here, that would be him
Methinks that the content of this video is to Pipeline what the English alphabet is to an English professor. From stuff I've seen on a number of other forums and sites, I strongly suspect that Pipeline is a developer/writer of some of the most advanced Reascripts and/or SWS extensions.
We are extremely fortunate to have him with us here on the forums!
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Thanks Pipeline, it's something I'll definitely consider doing in the near future!
BTW, I just installed Minihost yesterday, and it worked like a dream for about 5 minutes before crashing BiaB :-( I'll try and see if can carve out some time to troubleshoot the issue.
Deacon
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Tbh, trying to get all these workarounds in BiaB/RB is way too time-consuming and frustrating--especially with the decreasingly marginal payoffs given that everything goes a lot more smoothly once I import the raw data into Reaper.
That said, please do keep it up the amazing work you do here, Pipeline!
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The first time you set this up would be time consuming. But if you really need to stay in Biab:
On each BB track in the VST window Save each track FX with Save Group. In REAPER just save it as a default BB FX project. You can setup Track 1 ReaStream 1 with a different set of FX Track 2 ReaStream 1 with a different set of FX Track 3 ReaStream 1 with a different set of FX
Track 4 ReaStream 2 with a different set of FX Track 5 ReaStream 2 with a different set of FX Track 6 ReaStream 2 with a different set of FX .... .... and the same for the other Reastreams then you just solo the track that you want to use for each track send from Biab.
So you have REAPER running each time you start Biab, after you have the Biab song generated open the VST window and Load Group for each track: Track 1 Reastrem 1.tgs Track 2 Reastrem 2.tgs Track 3 Reastrem 3.tgs Track 4 Reastrem 4.tgs Track 5 Reastrem 5.tgs
I don't have the external drive I run BiaB off of at the moment, so I can't experiment with this right now, so can you tell me how you would print/record the streamed output to the corresponding Reaper tracks?
I'm assuming you arm the tracks and select input monitoring or some such and record the BiaB playback in realtime(?).
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"Once it's all sounding good and you have the tracks how you want them just drag export each track into the corresponding REAPER track and Render." And, you have your master track you can add the global FX to. You can record render like below but just drag in is the best:
Oh, and while you're here, I was wondering if you could take a quick gander at this video and tell me if there is a way to automate this process by exporting chord data from BiaB and/or RB so that the chords are displayed in Reaper (and preferably even recognized by Reaper for snap-to-key purposes, etc).
P.S. I know you have posted tips to these forums where you can reproduce so much more information within multiple layers of regions, but that seems to be overkill, and frankly too cluttered and detailed for my purposes.
This will give you basic import Biab/RB chords to REAPER, if you add the 2 scripts together in a new Action it will do it in one hit. So you will have the chords in the regions and as a track with text items, you can also just have the regions or just the text item track. So just drag the exported music xml into the REAPER track and run the Action. If you need the part makers, save the bb song to Midi, in Options dialog enable Part Marker saving, now drag that midi into REAPER importing the markers. You can delete the midi tracks after you have got the info out of them.
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