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I just came to the conclusion that several songs that I had wrestled with to complete, then hesitantly put in the 'well, now that's finally done!' pile, needed to be pulled off that stack and either torn up, submitted for major surgery, or stored in the "come back to this later" file.
I found it a bit discouraging. They are mostly songs that I found pretty challenging to finish up--maybe the lyric was forced, maybe too 'cute' in the composition and it never came off as planned--whatever. I guess the emotional attachment to 'my babies' makes it tough to turn my back on them.
I like working on new stuff, but now I feel like I need to do some major renovation.
Anyway, anyone want to chime in on this topic?--you've put a lot of work into something that you were originally excited about, then, after lots of effort, you conclude that it just didn't work out and it's best just to 'walk away'.
Windows 10, Intel Core2 Duo E8500@ 3.16GHz, 8 gig ram, BIAB 2025 MegaPak, SampleTank2, Oxygen49 Kybd, Neewer NW-800 mic
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Songwriting
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I just came to the conclusion that several songs that I had wrestled with to complete, then hesitantly put in the 'well, now that's finally done!' pile, needed to be pulled off that stack and either torn up, submitted for major surgery, or stored in the "come back to this later" file.
I found it a bit discouraging. They are mostly songs that I found pretty challenging to finish up--maybe the lyric was forced, maybe too 'cute' in the composition and it never came off as planned--whatever. I guess the emotional attachment to 'my babies' makes it tough to turn my back on them.
I like working on new stuff, but now I feel like I need to do some major renovation.
Anyway, anyone want to chime in on this topic?--you've put a lot of work into something that you were originally excited about, then, after lots of effort, you conclude that it just didn't work out and it's best just to 'walk away'. Been there done that! I have worked on a either a complete song or a track/part of a song for many hours only to listen to it the next day with fresh ears and say "what the hell was I thinking". Don't be discouraged as it happens to all of us. Sometimes it is best to post what you have, say that you are having problems with it, and ask for help. No one here will laugh or make fun of you as this is the nicest forum on the Internet, period. Plus you will get many suggestions on now to make that song better. Trust me, been there and done that also.
Today I bought a doughnut without the sprinkles. Diets are hard!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Thanks Mario, no shame here, just finding it interesting not being able to “flush when necessary”!
Windows 10, Intel Core2 Duo E8500@ 3.16GHz, 8 gig ram, BIAB 2025 MegaPak, SampleTank2, Oxygen49 Kybd, Neewer NW-800 mic
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2018
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Coming back the next day is part of the process. All it really proves when you hear you could have done "better" is that your ear and instincts are not too shabby after all.
Whether it is lyrics, music, or production I don't suppose any of "us" have the luxury of complete mastery. The time to "fix" things that may not be working is before they get too far along. There are a number of songs I've written where I wish I'd said "this" instead of "that". I even wrote a song that kinda makes fun of that, in part.
But I'm not going back to them to "change"...even if I could. It was a record of the best I (or we, if collaborating) could do that day, whether it be lyrics, music or production. Someone else wants the song? I'll suggest a better line. They'll have to pay their own band.
Nor do I suppose we have the luxury of other ears and minds every step of the way. But just because someone has a critical comment or suggestion doesn't mean they are right. Blue Attitude Dave doesn't like the delay. Tangmo does. Who is to decide? Even though I am clearly and obviously right (duh!) we just get input.
I know what I'm going to do for the remainder of my time on this forum. I'm going to post "private" and invite any comments, consider them, and then do what I want.
My only practical suggestion is just don't rush to post. Give it that extra day's attention with fresh ears. I rarely follow that advice myself. And if you find it well and truly, irredeemably sucks, then do whatever you want with it, too. The worst that happened is that you got one of your allotted crappy songs out of the way.
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Songwriting
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Sometimes you get a brilliant song idea but can't execute it well. Other times a song project might be more of a how to learning exercise than a "real" song. There are a lot of reasons to record and post the results besides trying to create a masterpiece every time.
In this era of everybody that wants to can record and produce music it is easy to isolate yourself. You and everyone of your neighbors may play music or sing and none of you are aware of the musical interest of the others because everyone does their own thing. Collaboration, either in person or online, normally result in better results.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (1124) RB (1) Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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I just came to the conclusion that several songs that I had wrestled with to complete, then hesitantly put in the 'well, now that's finally done!' pile, needed to be pulled off that stack and either torn up, submitted for major surgery, or stored in the "come back to this later" file. I'm certainly not prolific, but I've often had that problem. But it's a bit like pulling threads on a tapestry, only to have the whole thing come apart. For example, a lyric in one verse may sounds forced, but it motivates action in the following verse. And, of course, it took forever to find that critical rhyme. So changing one line can mean the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. On the bright side, that feeling of dissatisfaction usually leads to uncovering some deeper flaw that, when it's finally corrected, makes for a stronger song. So is it worth it? That depends on what motivates you to write the songs in the first place. (Cue Marvin the Paranoid Android): "Brain the size of a planet, and they've got me rewriting lyrics. Call that job satisfaction? 'Cos I don't."Personally, I don't find it fun, but it's a necessary evil of the process. If you'd rather toss them out and move on to something else, more power to you! 
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Well today I started on a major renovation job. I had previously 'finished' a song that i thought had the most clever lyric concept, and I had to do a lot of pushing and shoving to get the right rhymes and carry the idea throughout. One problem--I hated the result!! So I just tore out all the lyrics, and chucked the "clever" idea I had about the story, and started over again. Interestingly, I think I will like the new idea much better, even if it hasn't started out as a 'brainstorm' concept.
I love my song 'children', and I listen mostly to them vs. 'outside' music, so I have a need to either make them 'lovable' to myself, or re-make them, or outright bury them.
Just me.
Windows 10, Intel Core2 Duo E8500@ 3.16GHz, 8 gig ram, BIAB 2025 MegaPak, SampleTank2, Oxygen49 Kybd, Neewer NW-800 mic
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I have lots and lots of stuff in that same category.
That's how it is when you write.
It's the stuff that you finish that counts.... but don't worry about the cutting room floor. As you write more, you
will find that more stuff gets finished and it gets better if you're working on sharpening the skills.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Great topic!
I'm of the mindset that I will go back and change anything in a song I've written and recorded.
Lord knows I'm continuously re-mixing songs as my knowledge and ears improve.
I've gone back and changed key, tempo, genre, words, lines, anything that makes me happy.
My post of "Back In My Baby's Arms" began with the lyrics from my song "Walking Through A Graveyard". I was going to rewrite Graveyard as a rocking blues song. Then my son told me to re-write the lyrics of Graveyard into a sort of inversion or answer song to Graveyard. So one song is walking away and the other song is coming back home.
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That just shows you're growing as a songwriter which is a good thing. Most writers do not post every song they write. But never throw anything out. No song you write is ever wasted! Those incompletes and rejects are a treasure trove of ideas, words, phrases, etc., that can be recycled in other songs or spur new ideas and different directions in the future. I have stacks of old notebooks and files I go mining through periodically and many times I've found some real gems hiding in my rubble that with time and new perspective I rewrote or incorporated into some of my favorite songs or gave me a different idea for a totally new song. Collaboration might help but collaboration in itself is no magic bullet. Lots of factors are in play with collabs that won't result in better songs. In my experience, collab or not, trying to save a song I've lost that loving feeling for more often than not is a waste of time and I move on - but as I said earlier, I wouldn't throw them away. Learning when to move on from a song/song idea, learning to step back until the writing high passes, and realizing a great production won't hide turds are some of the big first steps in growing as a serious songwriter. These are common a-has we all go through. The reality is that no matter how much or how many great songs we write, we all will still write some crap. It never stops. It's not supposed to stop. It's a totally natural healthy and necessary part of the creative process. We just learn how to manage it. My five cents. 
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The reality is that no matter how much or how many great songs we write, we all will still write some crap. It never stops. It's not supposed to stop. It's a totally natural healthy and necessary part of the creative process.
Josie, It seems that you and Pat Pattison are on EXACTLY the same wavelength. Pretty much every seminar that I've been to of Pat's, he says: "Don't be afraid to write crap. After all, it's the best fertiliser." Another philosophy of Pat's that I always keep in mind is that 90% of Bob Dylan's songs are not his best 10%. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Sometimes your crap is another persons Gold.
Noel speaking of Dylan,
90 percent of his stuff went to other people and where hits.
Again
Horses for Courses.
Last edited by beatmaster; 10/13/18 12:47 PM.
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Tano keep at it and keep editing and keep moving along. Anything worthwhile has a lot of crap that goes along with it. I bet the Beatles first 20 shows or so in Berlin we’re pretty crappy.
See my thread called “write more worry less...” and the article there. Not every song has to be a baby of yours. Sometimes you need to write to get an idea out of the way so a better idea can grab your attention.
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