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AUDIO, MIDI, AUDIO, MIDI......

Aaah Bobby, while your drinkin' beer there by the sea,
you know I would be so happy,
if you could only come up with some new ideas,
PLEASE !

More then a time or two I have done a copy & paste after splitting and deleting a clip out of a track... with the aim of getting the exact part I want.

That works fine for me in many cases. I listen solo to be sure it works and sounds natural.

I go and find that cymbal crash or snare hit I want, in some other part of the song, copy it and put it where I want it... who hasn't done that?

What ideas do you want from me? You want me to reinvent the entire audio midi world? Afaik what you want cannot be done with audio files. Midi, yes. Audio, no.

I think I'm right since no one else has jumped in here to correct me.

Bob

I tried to say the same thing a few messages ago. If you want to control drums MIDI with a good sound source is the way to go IMHO.

Can you see what this is asking ?

More variation, that's it.

Did not mention MIDI except you have a choice to right click generate midi drums, that RB can do.

You are going on about Midi and Audio, if anything has to do with midi it is not "RealDrums"

RealDrums Sample Click





You have to understand we are using "Band" In A Box "Digital Audio"

We are not using analog tape recording a drummer in a studio playing in the band anymore, playing to the group feel, in a linear movement.

Midi is not sound it is DATA 0101010 that can be used to trigger anything.

Just as this Data below, it tells what "sample" and vol to play at any given time from different sections of the linear recorded digital audio file :

The volume of the shots is represented by a number between 1 and 127.

wavename=RockEven8_060_Style.wav
OFFSET=-7
dbAdjust=-10
Pushamount8=61
Pushamount16=28

MULTIBARPATTERNPERCENT=60
pattern,Count-in,0,5,0,2,-1
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,8,1 ;8 bars
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,8,9
pattern,Normal,a,5,6,7,2 ;7 bars
pattern,Normal,a,5,6,7,10
pattern,Normal,a,5,3,6,3 ;6 bars
pattern,Normal,a,5,3,6,11
pattern,Normal,a,5,7,6,3
pattern,Normal,a,5,7,6,11
pattern,Normal,a,5,4,5,4 ;5 bars
pattern,Normal,a,5,4,5,12
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,4,1 ;4 bars
pattern,Normal,a,5,1,4,5
pattern,Normal,a,5,5,4,5
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,4,5
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,4,9
pattern,Normal,a,5,1,4,13
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,4,13
pattern,Normal,a,5,2,3,2 ;3 bars
pattern,Normal,a,5,2,3,6
pattern,Normal,a,5,2,3,10
pattern,Normal,a,5,2,3,15
pattern,Normal,a,5,6,3,6
pattern,Normal,a,5,6,3,10
pattern,Normal,a,5,6,3,15
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,2,1 ;2 bars
pattern,Normal,a,3,3,2,3
pattern,Normal,a,3,5,2,3
pattern,PreFill,a,7,0,2,3
pattern,Normal,a,5,1,2,5
pattern,Normal,a,2,3,2,7
pattern,PreFill,a,7,0,2,7
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,2,9
pattern,Normal,a,3,3,2,11
pattern,PreFill,a,3,0,2,11
pattern,Normal,a,3,1,2,13
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,2,13
pattern,Normal,a,2,3,2,15
pattern,PreFill,a,5,0,2,15
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,1,1 ;1 bar
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,2
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,3
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,1,3
pattern,Fill,a,5,0,1,4
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,1,5
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,6
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,7
pattern,Fill,a,5,0,1,8
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,1,9
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,10
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,11
pattern,Fill,a,5,0,1,12
pattern,PostFill,a,7,0,1,13
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,14
pattern,Normal,a,5,0,1,15
pattern,Fill,a,5,0,1,16
;B section
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,8,17 ;8 bars
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,8,25
pattern,Normal,b,5,6,7,18 ;7 bars
pattern,Normal,b,5,6,7,26
pattern,Normal,b,5,3,6,19 ;6 bars
pattern,Normal,b,5,3,6,27
pattern,Normal,b,5,4,5,20 ;5 bars
pattern,Normal,b,5,4,5,29
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,4,17 ;4 bars
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,4,21
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,4,25
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,4,29
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,2,17 ;2 bars
pattern,PreFill,b,5,0,2,19
pattern,Normal,b,5,7,2,19
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,2,21
pattern,Normal,b,2,3,2,23
pattern,PreFill,b,5,0,2,23
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,2,25
pattern,Normal,b,5,3,2,27
pattern,PreFill,b,5,0,2,27
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,2,29
pattern,PreFill,b,5,3,2,31
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,14,17 ;1 bar
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,18
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,19
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,1,19
pattern,fill,b,5,4,1,20
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,1,21
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,22
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,23
pattern,Fill,b,5,0,1,24
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,1,25
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,26
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,27
pattern,Fill,b,5,0,1,28
pattern,PostFill,b,7,0,1,29
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,30
pattern,Normal,b,5,0,1,31
pattern,Fill,b,5,0,1,32
pattern,Ending,0,5,0,2,33 ;2 bars
pattern,Ending,0,5,0,2,35 ;2 bars
pattern,Fill,a,2,0,1,37
pattern,Fill,b,2,0,1,38
pattern,Fill,b,2,0,1,39
Shot,0,39,477,71,4,110 ;kick
Shot,0,40,69,76,3,100 ;snare
Shot,1,40,146,288,1,80 ;crash and kick 1
Shot,0,40,146,288,1,80 ;crash and kick 1
Shot,0,40,435,262,2,80 ;crash and kick 2
Shot,1,41,218,122,7,90 ;splash and kick 1
Shot,1,41,341,87,7,90 ;splash and kick 2
Shot,1,40,69,76,1,100 ;snare
Shot,1,40,146,288,1,80 ;crash and kick 1
;this style uses 82 bars. 29 megs

Don't get me wrong I love RealDrums and use them but it is not a Real Drummer that sat down to record with you to the feel of your song, it goes back and forth using DATA as above.
See pattern,Count-in,0,5,0,2,-1 it is 2 bars why not have an intro option that will choose other intro samples data to generate prerecorded intros, fills, solos, 4bar endings and so on.
Would not that be an improvement.

I can use MIDI DATA with velocity etc.. recorded from a human
to trigger "samples" recorded in a studio also using EZdrummer2 that is fine @ $150 works great except it is midi type 0 and gives RB grief so I have to use Sweet Midi converter to convert the drag n drop midi files to type 1.


"do you mind if we put a mic on each drum so we have more control over the mix"

When you are use to mixing multi track drums it is claustrophobic and frustrating trying to do things with the stereo mixdown.

That's it is that too much to ask ?

"They will still of course have Stereo RealDrums for those who don't need or want to venture any further, just as you still have a choice of Midi Drums over RealDrums."




8 channel wma

Format : Windows Media
File size : 1.65 MiB
Duration : 1mn 25s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 161 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 161 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2014-01-02 22:37:20.607

Audio
ID : 1
Format : WMA
Format profile : Pro
Codec ID : 162
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec : Windows Media Audio 10 Professional - 160 kbps, 48 kHz, 7.1 channel 16 bit 1-pass CBR
Duration : 1mn 25s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 160 Kbps
Channel(s) : 8 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.63 MiB (99%)
Language : English

2 channel stereo wma

Format : Windows Media
File size : 1.65 MiB
Duration : 1mn 25s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 161 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 161 Kbps
Genre : Blues
Encoded date : UTC 2014-06-23 05:20:18.798

Audio
ID : 1
Format : WMA
Format profile : Pro
Codec ID : 162
Codec ID/Info : Windows Media Audio
Description of the codec : Windows Media Audio 10 Professional - 160 kbps, 48 kHz, 2 channel 16 bit 1-pass CBR
Duration : 1mn 25s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 160 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.63 MiB (99%)
Language : English

I can see now why Biab stays stuck in the past, a user comes up with a good idea only to be loaded on and put off from coming back.
It's a collective culture to keep Biab in a time warp.
Lol Multi channel drums ! they are common place over in the Reaper forum, there are tutorials on recording and saving to a multi channel formats compressed and uncompressed.

You said it all though not many had ears
All those years ago.....

Cause I was involved more than 10 years ago....
We tested RD it was the first move out of midi But even with just stereo we all joked about getting stock in hard drives. Storage indead was the issue. Luckily storage ability increased before Real Tracks came out.

Wow, are you also missing the point from 2014 or am I having a total brain freeze here?

A PG Music Real Drum track is a recording of a real drummer playing full phrases on an acoustic drum kit in real time. Real Drums are not single hit samples controlled by a sequencer.

Lets make this simple with a picture. Pretend a guy is sitting in your living room playing a song on an acoustic kit and you're recording him. Explain to me how you get discreet individual drum kit tracks from that. Or, are you talking about putting midi triggers on individual parts of the kit or something and that's how you're creating these multitracks talked about on the Reaper forum?

Bob

If you need to learn about mixing drums here's some videos and some recorded multi stems to download, these were the first videos in the search, but there's more if you need them:

How to Mix Drums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W58HM9glF3M

5 Minutes To A Better Mix: Gating Drums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vasGYUssAn4

When they recorded the REAL HUMAN drummer in the studio for the Real Drums it was multi miced BUT mixed to stereo.
*.ogg files suck big time

If you know a Human Drummer you can use the REAL TRACKS generator and mic your own kit with compressors and gates etc. and make your own. That's what I did for some.

You clearly don't totally understand Real Band after reading the rest of the posts.

Further..
RealBand has no problem splitting the multichannel to separate tracks but with Biab a multichannel mixer can be used due to the track limit.

Last time I check RB wouldn't split a RealDrum or UserTrack drum that is multichannel wav , and it wouldn't open ogg or mogg.
If it could split the wav in the engine like it does when you drag or open a multichannel wav in RB that would be a start, and the above for BB.

We're getting off track here, my comments are still based on what was discussed in this thread originally.

I completely understand how to record and mix drums, I probably have 12-15 projects I did remotely using my Akai DPS 16 HD recorder plus a separate 12 channel mixer since the Akai only allows simultaneous recording of 8 tracks at once. I don't have an elaborate kit bag of 15 drum mics, I use 3-5 usually.

Listen to what the guy says at the 1:45 mark of your first example vid. He says "the most important thing to remember whether you have a couple of tracks or a whole lot of tracks, they are a single instrument". So take the individual track of the overhead mics for example. Are you going to be able to take that recording and plug it into another song using a different drum kit? Maybe but probably not because the rhythms the first drummer was playing will be bleeding through on the overhead mics and will be heard in the second kits recording where the drummer is playing different stuff. Therefore it's unlikely you will be able to change the elements of the original kit, you have more control over the mix but other than that, you're done.

The original point of contention at the beginning of this thread is he wanted to be able to change the performance aspects of the drums, add fills, change intros, swap out one drum for another etc. Having multichannel stems of a "single instrument" is not going to help with that. If you want to add, subtract or otherwise change that basic performance then you're talking about midi drum samplers and then you can write anything you want.

He's also requesting that somehow Biab or RB be able to generate a multiple track RD performance. They can't. They only can generate one RD track at a time. If that's a wishlist request, that's a heckuva request.

RB was originally Power Tracks and had nothing to do with Biab, it was it's own discrete program. PGM was somehow able to graft some Biab functions into PT and they called it Real Band. Biab only has one drum track, I certainly do not know anything about it's internal programming code but I do know as far as drums are concerned it takes the files that comprise one RD style, which is a recording of a full drum kit and chops them up according to what the user put on the chord grid. My point 4 years ago about file sizes and numbers of files was based on that.

This is the exact same concept when folks request more variations, more solo licks in the Real Tracks. Those things are great but they will greatly increase the file sizes which will in turn increase the generation times. I don't have to tell you most Biab users do not have the latest and greatest computer systems.

We hear complaints about how long it takes to generate songs including the drums. I just checked some RB filesizes in Explorer and the sizes are roughly between 3 and 12 MB. If they were somehow able to take say, 8 separate drum tracks requiring 8 different groups of files for each style so you're multiplying those average file sizes by 8 and mix and mash all that together to create a multichannel RD performance that consists of 8 separate tracks? How on earth could that possibly work with what we know about Biab now? And even if that were possible how long would it take to generate? 5 minutes just for the drum part? That's why I kept harping on audio vs midi. Generating midi is almost instant while generating audio tracks takes time.

Bob

You are totally missing the point of the user.
It says more variations and nothing about using hits out of the multi tracks to create up new patterns (though that user did upload multichannel with individual hits at the end for a reason). It even has a picture of what is meant "intros, different endings and fills drum solos " that's what the Real Drums need more variations, if a 2 bar drum ending is enough for you that's fine. Why the heck have 12 key RealTracks ?

"We hear complaints about how long it takes to generate songs including the drums." crap ! there are more complaints about adjusting levels of drums !!! 5mins for drums ? you're talking from where the sun don't shine, I would respect what you say if you knew what you were talking about. Have you even tried any of this ???
What's that about condemnation and thorough investigations ?????
That is what you call death at it's best, it's only when you have died you find out that life is death and death is life.

"He's also requesting that somehow Biab or RB be able to generate a multiple track RD performance. They can't. They only can generate one RD track at a time. If that's a wishlist request, that's a heckuva request.

Far Canal ! they are in a multichannel wav or compressed format they are not 8 separate tracks that it has to do.

The user even created real drums with intros fills 4 bars ending in the user forum ! lol

If users come here with ideas leave them the heck alone, keep it all here > https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=496086&page=1




This totally puts me off wanting to help, honestly, why did I go to so much trouble getting the VST sync fixed ??? why bother if you get someone knocking ides ! I can see the reason BB/RB is stuck in the past from a million miles away, heck, blind Harry could see it.

Give me one good reason why I should bother, please ! what am I doing here ?? Really.

5mins honestly ? wtf

Man, I certainly hope this is coming.

"should be option to generate intros, different endings and fills etc"

Sort of like the "generate riffs" for drums - would be sweet.

+1

2b

This is a lot more elegant then splicing tape.
All the single drum parts are at the end of the RD file.
Open the RD wma files and cut,copy,paste to your hearts content and make new RDs.
At some point PG should multi track the drums.

A lot of the new MIDI drums were done at the same time the RDs were being recorded by using a midi controller so are completely editable and sound real.

In a nutshell, included in each mixes and stems pack are the relevant mix and stems
files for the Drum Kit. The mix files are full mixes of the drum kit, once it has been through
the mixing process, using such processing as EQ and compression. The
stem files are sub mixes of the kit that will have the same sound as the
full mix files. Where the full mix files will be mixes of the whole kit,
the stems files will break the kit down a little into say a file for the kick
drum, another file for the snare drum, another file for the rest of the kit
and then finally yet another file for the room mics.
These individual stem files of the kit can then be played back together,
giving the same sound as the full mix files, but also giving you a bit
more control over the separate elements of the kit.
This is a great option for anybody who wants an immediate sounding
kit, but still wants the flexibility to change the sounds or levels of the kit
themselves.
These are then be saved in a multichannel format,
so one file with all the separate tracks in.
For those that just want stereo drums they will choose Stereo instead of Multichannel in the Drum Picker.