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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824 |
I've used mp3gain some and think it will be helpful going forward
mp3gain suggests a target normal output of 89db.
Reading various forums I see a lot of folks who opt for much higher output levels (say 93-95) db.
Certainly output db might depend on your genre of music.
I guess EDM people would opt for more db
My stuff is all over the map from jazz,zappa,freddie king,roy buchanan,bluegrass,country,etc.
Any opinions on this topic?
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
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I set my MP3gain to 90. I find this setting makes it easy to blend my guitar in with the backing tracks when playing live. My Guitar is plugged into a USB audio interface and I use TH3 as an amp sim. I use a Behringer FCB1010 foot controller to control the TH3. This then simply plugs into the PA all balanced and with all the backing tracks about the same level, I have no need to dive for a volume knob on the PA.
That is my method
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2016
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I was finding a lot of volume adjusting when playing along with my MP3 tracks. So I tried the MP3Gain to get the tracks to around the same level. I still thought them a bit low so i boosted them. Then someone on the forum said something about clipping so quick check shows that virtually all my tracks show a tick in the clip column. So that's a bad thing, I think. I was more worried about not being loud enough but now I'm thinking I'll have to review and drop the levels. Old dogs new tricks.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2016
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The trick is to get the levels right before converting them to MP3. If for example you were to simply export the tracks from BIAB, give them a rough mix without lowering the levels exported from BIAB your track will almost certainly be clipping when converted to MP3. When exporting to wav and the normalise option is used the tracks come out very hot. Each track at 0 dB the overall mix at or over 0 dB. Whilst you may get away with this with a wav file when converting to MP3 you will almost certainly get clipping.
For MP3 you really don’t want a peak level at 0 dB probably -1.2 dB true peak might avoid clipping but even that is close to the mark. To get the song to a good level, initially drop the levels when mixing then lift them as a final stage in mastering. Use a limiter bring the overall mix to -1.5 dB or if the limiter shows true peak -1.3 dB or so. Using a limiter it is possible to get an overall “louder” song but you lose dynamics.
The stuff I do does not really hit the limiter much but it is below -1.3 dB. If I have the overall level too low then lift it in MP3gain it can result in clipping. Often it is only drums clipping and you probably would not hear that happening. Using a LUFS meter and bringing the tracks to about -14 LUFS pretty much does away with clipping and also avoids the need to lift songs in MP3gain.
The Youlean LUFS meter will in fact indicate where the clipping points are.
IMHO
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 06/06/19 01:25 AM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 40
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Hi Tony, Thanks I'll try to get my head around that. I do make sure the Normalise is checked when I render the MP3. I had better go back to the beginning and reload each of my songs into BIAB then start with the mixer levels. If I recall my BIAB seems to set the various vol levels at 90 when I select a style. I'm not sure what the 90 means and I don't know much about digital and theory. If I leave it like that the MP3 seems to be quiet soft so I have set the main slider at the bottom of the mixer to 10 for all songs. That's too high then? I have tried to change by loading a set of MP3 back tracks into MP3Gain and lowering the level a little at a time until the Vol column shows no more clipping ticks. Tonight I'll save that to my tablet and see how it sounds into the mixer. I did notice that compared to the other inputs into the mixer (mic and guitar) the tablet with the MP3 tracks on has to be cranked up very high. Too much thinking makes my head ache.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 824
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OP
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I've completed about 10 tracks now and am starting to get it dialed in a little better.
I mix the tracks in biab using the simple mixer.
Stereo, not normalized, volume not too hot
I export single instrument wav files and import to a project in my DAW (logic pro)
With a limiter and a LUFS meter on the stereo out I tweak final volume levels.
sometimes a quick eq if the cymbals are a bit too noisy
With practice I find that my mp3 output (bounce) from Logic needs little or no adjustment in mp3gain.
Good stuff.
Lots left to do
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS Sequoia 15.0.1
Apple M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,169
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See this video by Kenny Gioia. It is about Reaper but similar applies in other DAWs. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=setting+k14+metering+in+reaper&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-au&client=safari#kpvalbx=1I set the ceiling to -1.3 when converting to MP3 but the principle applies. I use Reaper when mixing. I have the meter set so that 0 is 14 LUFS. However I still check using the Youlean LUFS meter (you can get it free from Youlean himself). I use Izotope Neutron and Ozone which assist even more but you can do it with free tools. The real advantage to the Izotope stuff is interaction between modules that does not happen with free tools. I export out of BIAB setting all tracks to flat, centred and normalised. Then drop all track levels so that I can adjust them, then they are mixed and they come up approximately -6 dB before hitting the limiter. Set the ceiling of the limiter to -1.3 dB true peak then gradually raise the level until the LUFS meter shows just under 14 but over 16. At that point all is fine. It takes a few goes but it will work fine and is quick once you get used to doing it. Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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