I have to say I don't know which I marvel more here, the ambition or the share courage!
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
I think if you are doing instrumentals and using BiaB with RTs and RDs then yes you could do a song a day. However most songs would be just jams using different styles.
Today I bought a doughnut without the sprinkles. Diets are hard!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Well sure, it obviously can be done, no doubt. The bigger question here is perhaps then the issue of quantity versus quality, whether if one consciously goes about to write a song out of something else than 'desire' of some sort, is the result ever going to be as good? And then, with the share volume and pace of the work, how to avoid pitfalls like repetition, accidental plagiarism and so on. Issues that, granted, songwriters are faced with regardless, but I'd think accentuated by those two elements, volume and pace of work.
At any rate, this is in no way a simple feat to pull off.
Last edited by Icelander; 06/20/1903:41 AM. Reason: Correcting mistakes
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
Well sure, it obviously can be done, no doubt. The bigger question here is perhaps then the issue of quantity versus quality, whether if one consciously goes about to write a song out of something else than desire, is that ever going to be as good? And with the share volume and pace of the work, how to avoid pitfalls of repetition, accidental plagiarism and so on. Issues that, granted, songwriters are faced with regardless, but I'd think accentuated by those two elements, volume and pace of work.
At any rate, this is in no way a simple feat to pull off.
I agree that the quality of each song would be poor and probably with a lot of repetition. As you well know good songs, with very few exceptions, take more than one day. That is why I added the jam statement.
I would say that creating a good song,vocal or instrumental, every day for a year is impossible. YMMV
Today I bought a doughnut without the sprinkles. Diets are hard!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I would say that creating a good song,vocal or instrumental, every day for a year is impossible.
And a strong statement right there if there ever was one!
Giving that, I'm increasingly impressed by what I'm currently listening too
p.s. I just wished the artist had provided more than just the final outcome of each song.. you know, from a pure songwriting perspective. But I guess for that there's always this short playlist from the same person: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs-yUG3Kl8f2nBQiTAjNcm56z8el34BNU
Last edited by Icelander; 06/20/1904:27 AM. Reason: Further details
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
There's a good argument can be made for either side of that question.
Jeff Steele.... hit country songwriter with over 2 dozen #1 songs.... says.... you have to write every day and you have to try to finish the a song every day. You should average a song a day based on 200+ working days.... take the weekends off.... then, if you're doing it right, and learning from the mistakes, and writing on a consistent basis.... your writing should improve and maybe, you might get a cut if you are in the right place and keep working hard on the business end of the music as well as the writing end.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
What amazes me is people who say they work months or even years on a song. If it ain't a song in a week it ain't gonna be!
The song a day thing does not surprise me and it is totally possible to write a song a day! And many of them will be good or a useful seed that may have never occurred otherwise. Plus the practice you get is invaluable.
The problem is finding the time to set down and write. Steele says it's his job... get a cup of coffee and go into this home studio and start writing.
Most folks have to work a normal 8 hr day job, have families, and have other things that require our time. It's hard to find the time to set and write music for 1 hr let alone 6 to 8 hrs and everyday.
As John pointed out... if you have to work on it for a month or longer.... maybe it's not going to be a song. I agree, but also disagree. I've had a few tunes come out fully formed in a day or two, and sometimes in a few hours time, and others that took much much longer to whip into shape, spanning months, bordering on years. But mostly for me, if it's not formed into something significant in a week or less, it will not make it to song status.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
The problem is finding the time to set down and write.
There's certainly that too, I agree. And I'm sure that sort of dedication and endurance, and by a young girl like that to boot as opposed to some seasoned professional, was a big factor in how that project I cited at the top found its way into our TV news in the first place,. I mean let's face it, no boy of that age would ever have done this
Last edited by Icelander; 06/21/1909:04 AM. Reason: Correcting mistakes
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
Wow - that is incredibly ambitious. I mean, I too think I COULD do it - but it'd likely be mostly garbage. I've heard some crazy song challenges before but this takes the cake!
I don't think I would be able to do that. Sometimes I don't have enough ideas and creativity. I think it's better to write less high-quality songs, than many songs of low quality
I'm no professional song writer and don't (wouldn't) do it for living anyway. So...I would see no point in taking on such a task.
Hence, I would have no desire to approach song writing just for the sake of quantity. I also would never think I could write any song to my satisfaction in one day (or one month) that would be worthy of putting on a public forum for any scrutiny from my peers.
I'm slow and very deliberate in this context and I'm not easily impressed with myself. I'm just not that talented and I'm my worst critic. To those that do, I'd guess over time it could help getting into the song writing frame of mind that one may desire.
To those who say they prefer to avoid quantity and focus on quality, you have made an error in thought process and that is that you think these two words are mutually exclusive. That is not the case. Ask any person involved in learning any instrument or sport. Practice, and lots of it, results in improvement. There are very few home run hitters who take just one pitch per day, hoping for a home run from that one pitch
If I wanted to (which I don't) I could probably do it. But I've already written a lot of songs. I feel like my "practice" is at the least well underway. How much practice does one need before he/she can begin to see that what is coming is gold, a diamond-in-the-rough, or wood/hay/stubble? How far into the "writing" does he/she have to go before he/she might be better served to spend some production time on one of last week's songs?
Of 365 songs, how many would I want anybody else to hear? Maybe 1 in 10--that's 36.5 songs. And how many would other people want to hear my Ernest Strummer persona perform? Maybe 1 in ten of those--3.65 songs. That's 32.85 songs written that I'd like to further produce. I'd have to give up a lot of days "writing" in order to make those 32.85 songs more listenable for an audience. I think there have been years when I accomplished that to my own satisfaction without writing 365 songs. Now I just don't want to.
I didn't set a goal, but there was a summer when I wrote about 100 songs. I can barely remember even writing more than half of those, and can't remember enough of most of the rest to redo them or even just play them. I can't say whether or not I was a "better" song-writer at the end of that summer than at the beginning. I certainly didn't feel like one. I just had a few keeper songs I didn't have before. Now I don't want to write anything I don't want to keep.
Personally, I think an aspiring song-writer would be better served "studying, learning, and/or analyzing" 365 songs a year and writing maybe 1 every payday. Production has always been a part of "song-writing" in recorded music and is more-so now than ever. Work on that between paydays. But--do what you want, because you're going to anyway.
Now I don't want to write anything I don't want to keep.
That's how I feel about my approach to writing songs too....
I only work on one song a time until it's done. I have had two song ideas/concepts on the burner at the same time but only focus on one at time to completion. Obviously, I'm not the song writing multi-tasker type.
The process of creative writing itself, songs with lyrics or just compositions, every day is one thing. That sort of academic discipline I would always encourage.
But, for me, I'm just not confident or prolific enough to feel I could complete either (especially, lyrical quality/continuity) in one day and feel it would be done to my satisfaction or expectations.
To those who say they prefer to avoid quantity and focus on quality, you have made an error in thought process and that is that you think these two words are mutually exclusive. That is not the case. Ask any person involved in learning any instrument or sport. Practice, and lots of it, results in improvement. There are very few home run hitters who take just one pitch per day, hoping for a home run from that one pitch
Hi Scott.
I've been pondering your comments since I first read them a couple of days ago.
While there's some truth in what you say, I'm not sure that songwriting is as straightforward as you make it sound.
For example, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement, then I could comfortably write a song a day. However, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement + lyrics, I would be unable to consistently write songs on a daily basis.
Lyrics for me are my slow point.
I can create a first draft of complete lyrics usually within a hour. That draft, though, is just a starting place. I then use dictionaries, rhyming dictionaries and thesauruses to modify words and dress-up phrases so that I have: (a) the best prosody possible; (b) the best syllable strength alignment with a note's rhythmical stress; (c) the most sonorous linking of words through rhymes, inner rhymes, assonance and consonance; (d) the best possible metaphors, similes and connotations. This all takes time. And with every change that I make, I need to let the words rest for a day or two so that I can come back to them with fresh ears and hear how they fit together.
In this regard, lyrics are like mixing for me. Aural fatigue sets in after a couple of hours and it's difficult to appreciate how well or not the lyrics flow.
Right now, I've been working on a single line of lyrics for three days. While I've certainly had a few 'adequate' lines that more-or-less work in those days, they have not grabbed me. This morning, my brain finally put a phrase together that says everything I want to say and the words flow with elegance. For me, lyric writing is more like the fermenting of beer. There's no way to hurry the process. The best I can do is to mix everything together, give it a good stir and then wait for the magic to happen as my brain works through various permutations and possibilities.
To those who say they prefer to avoid quantity and focus on quality, you have made an error in thought process and that is that you think these two words are mutually exclusive. That is not the case. Ask any person involved in learning any instrument or sport. Practice, and lots of it, results in improvement. There are very few home run hitters who take just one pitch per day, hoping for a home run from that one pitch
Hi Scott.
I've been pondering your comments since I first read them a couple of days ago.
While there's some truth in what you say, I'm not sure that songwriting is as straightforward as you make it sound.
For example, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement, then I could comfortably write a song a day. However, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement + lyrics, I would be unable to consistently write songs on a daily basis.
Lyrics for me are my slow point.
I can create a first draft of complete lyrics usually within a hour. That draft, though, is just a starting place. I then use dictionaries, rhyming dictionaries and thesauruses to modify words and dress-up phrases so that I have: (a) the best prosody possible; (b) the best syllable strength alignment with a note's rhythmical stress; (c) the most sonorous linking of words through rhymes, inner rhymes, assonance and consonance; (d) the best possible metaphors, similes and connotations. This all takes time. And with every change that I make, I need to let the words rest for a day or two so that I can come back to them with fresh ears and hear how they fit together.
In this regard, lyrics are like mixing for me. Aural fatigue sets in after a couple of hours and it's difficult to appreciate how well or not the lyrics flow.
Right now, I've been working on a single line of lyrics for three days. While I've certainly had a few 'adequate' lines that more-or-less work in those days, they have not grabbed me. This morning, my brain finally put a phrase together that says everything I want to say and the words flow with elegance. For me, lyric writing is more like the fermenting of beer. There's no way to hurry the process. The best I can do is to mix everything together, give it a good stir and then wait for the magic to happen as my brain works through various permutations and possibilities.
Just my two cents worth!
Regards, Noel
Noel you implied that I said that songwriting is straightforward. I said no such thing. I did say that is an incorrect thought to presume that quantity is exclusive of quality. I said that they were not exclusive to each other. You take several days to write a line of lyrics. But I know that you have been through Pattison’s class and you don’t have time to take that long for each line to complete the assignments.
Some of my own favorite lyrics have come nearly without effort. But it takes practice. Practice of writing without worrying. Practicing “the Boxes”. Practicing prosody. Practicing writing a song in one sitting.
As I mentioned in my post, your thoughts caused me some serious reflection. Thanks for that. I honestly appreciated the opportunity to get my ideas in order.
You are absolutely correct that 'quality' and 'quantity' are are not mutually exclusive. You're also spot on when you say: "But it takes practice. Practice of writing without worrying. Practicing “the Boxes”. Practicing prosody. Practicing writing a song in one sitting."
My brain must be slow at the moment but, until I read your above post, it never occurred to me that the days I spend honing lyrics is pretty much practising my skills by using just a single song. And you're right, it does get easier.
These days, I'm much quicker than I was three or four years ago simply because of practising and taking the time to get my lyrics to be the best that I can. For example, nowadays I can look at a line and see that I need to start with a prepositional phrase or maybe a participle; I can also tell whether I should have a 'showing' phrase or a 'telling' phrase; which syllables of words should be on what notes for the best musical effect, etc. This knowledge has really streamlined the writing process for me.
I didn't read all the comments.... so with that in mind.
This is the very advice that Jeff Steele gave to the folks in attendance at a songwriter's seminar that I had attended several years ago in LA. Write a song every day..... monday thru friday. At the end of a year you have approx 250 songs. At the end of 10 years you have 2500 songs. Somewhere in the middle, you're starting to get pretty good at writing.
He defined what it meant to write a song a day. It means a complete song. Music and lyrics and record it in some fashion so you don't forget it next week. It does not have to be a "swing for the bleachers" type of song. You need to sift through a lot of rocks to find the gems. Just complete the song from start to finish and with lyrics and music. When you write like this, you will absolutely become better.
In dog training, we say that a dog has to repeat something successfully 800 to 1000 times for it to grasp and master that something. It can be a sit or a search for a given odor in 10 acres of woodland. The same thing applies to us. We have to successfully repeat things to become good at them. It takes 10,000 hrs of practicing correctly to master something. Do the math.... that means 4 to 5 years of doing.
As a side, Steele said that after having done this (writing hit songs) for his whole life, he still has a rate of 1 in 10 songs that he writes is decent enough to consider demoing. Out of those, again maybe 1 in 10 of the demos get cut, and a small number of them hit the top 10 in the charts. At the time of the seminar, Steele had had 24 hit songs that were in the top 10 including #1.
Not many folks, including myself have the time to set and write a complete song, or anything for that matter, everyday. But that doesn't mean we can't write as much as we can and learn more about the process and the skills needed to improve.
No matter what your circumstances, try to improve. You owe it to yourself and that epitomizes the reason we take up a hobby or a pursuit in the first place.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
A song a day – how to improve your songwriting skills You may not copy Jonathan Mann and his commitment to the plan, but everyone needs to slow down some time. The first principle of one song per day is to do my essay as a short story on your song’s topic in order to minimize the basic word cluster, focus your lyrics and That helps a lot.
On the one hand, it helps with motivation I guess, but on the other hand - I'm not sure if it's the best method for everyone. Some songwriters prefer long pauses in writing after each song (that's totally about me).
The result of one song per day 120 days in a row in one video: 120 Days of Music - One Hundred and Twenty - Samuel Orson:
To those who say they prefer to avoid quantity and focus on quality, you have made an error in thought process and that is that you think these two words are mutually exclusive. That is not the case. Ask any person involved in learning any instrument or sport. Practice, and lots of it, results in improvement. There are very few home run hitters who take just one pitch per day, hoping for a home run from that one pitch
Hi Scott.
I've been pondering your comments since I first read them a couple of days ago.
While there's some truth in what you say, I'm not sure that songwriting is as straightforward as you make it sound.
For example, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement, then I could comfortably write a song a day. However, if I define a "song" as melody + chords + arrangement + lyrics, I would be unable to consistently write songs on a daily basis.
Lyrics for me are my slow point.
I can create a first draft of complete lyrics usually within a hour. That draft, though, is just a starting place. I then use dictionaries, rhyming dictionaries and thesauruses to modify words and dress-up phrases so that I have: (a) the best prosody possible; (b) the best syllable strength alignment with a note's rhythmical stress; (c) the most sonorous linking of words through rhymes, inner rhymes, assonance and consonance; (d) the best possible metaphors, similes and connotations. This all takes time. And with every change that I make, I need to let the words rest for a day or two so that I can come back to them with fresh ears and hear how they fit together.
In this regard, lyrics are like mixing for me. Aural fatigue sets in after a couple of hours and it's difficult to appreciate how well or not the lyrics flow.
Right now, I've been working on a single line of lyrics for three days. While I've certainly had a few 'adequate' lines that more-or-less work in those days, they have not grabbed me. This morning, my brain finally put a phrase together that says everything I want to say and the words flow with elegance. For me, lyric writing is more like the fermenting of beer. There's no way to hurry the process. The best I can do is to mix everything together, give it a good stir and then wait for the magic to happen as my brain works through various permutations and possibilities.
Just my two cents worth!
Regards, Noel
Interesting thread. I am like you Noel, I struggle with lyrics and it takes me a long time to craft a reasonable set of lyrics.
However, my time on FAWM has exposed me to ordinary people who are able to produce literally hundreds of sets of beautiful lyrics in the short month of February. It is amazing.
In turn they are amazed that I can put the lyrics to music and record the song (with the help of BIAB) in a couple of hours.
I believe Bob Dylan wrote Blowing in the Wind in a few minutes while Leonard Cohen took ages to write a song.
Maybe possible but why?? I have 50+ songs of my own....and have times when the muse (and time) come on and write several IDEAS....(later SONGS or not)...and perhaps if something pay for it....maybe think abouth it. Quality over quantity.....its important to me.
I think you can write a song a day if you want to end up with 365 crappy songs LOL I understand this may work for some but for me it's just a no-go. I'd rather spend my time trying to write from the quality perspective than the "quantity" perspective. To write a "complete" song to include music, lyrics, arrangement, background vocals, bridge, breaks, etc... is just too hard for me to complete in a day. I've heard these songwriter challenges songs before and 90% of the songs sound the same. No variety. Just 300 boring songs written as a ballad. A single soloist accompanied by a simple arrangement. If that's the goal then it's cool but I think it's because the songwriter gets stuck in a comfortable pattern and continues down that path not really experimenting or doing anything new. I actually do a lot of songwriting away from any instrument singing the melody into my Samsung then going back and figuring out how the music should sound or how the hook resonates. I will admit that there's no "right" answer. This is just my opinion.
Lyrics are always a pain in the neck and even though I've been writing poems the last 40 years or so - putting meaningful lyrics into songwriting is a totally different ball game.
You need to take rhythm and flow, also what words sounds good and stay away from the ones that make your vocal sound like you just swallowed a hot potato....and similar issues.
I use rhymezone.com a lot since my english vocabulary has it's limitation. Also I find quite a lot of inspiration just by observing human behavior - it tends to get my lyrics going. I also learned, that I regularly will change or rewrite 30-50% during the process from composing to recording.
When it comes to composing - I have a rule of thumb. I set the song up in BIAB or ScalerAudio2 -and then I leave it without writing down lyrics or creating a "humming" track. This to see if I still remember the song after 7-14 days - if I forgot it, well it wasn't good enough anyhow.
MacMini M1 - BIAB2021 - Logic Pro X - iZotope Music Production Suite - Scaler 2 - far too many Waves plugins and Line 6 Guitars and boards + a fantastic Yamaha THR10ll mini Amp - Avid MBOX Studio
Peters' Garage is available on all major streaming services
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