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Does anyone know what is allowed in terms of sharing homemade cover-versions of copyrighted songs?
Here's what I want to do: I used BiaB and other programs to make a bunch of background tracks for songs that I like to play on my saxophone. I've put a lot of work into these tracks and thought it would be nice to share with others who might want to use them, maybe by putting my recordings on YouTube. I have no intention of making money off the recordings -- this is just a hobby -- but I also don't want to get sued.
Does anyone know if what I am wanting to do is legal, per copyright laws?
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Copyright law says you can't legally do that. You need to get the license and the license covers the use you are planning.
It doesn't matter if you are not making any money and you're giving the songs away for free..... you can't legally do that.
Use of copyrighted material is limited to using it in educational settings such as music classes in a school, and for parody purposes. Aside from that.... nope.
There's a grey area in copyright regarding how it is treated by YouTube and other such media sites. It is essentially out of control on those sites and they are not about to shut down....so they have come up with a kind of compromise. They determine if your posted video is a copyrighted song and they monitize it and pay the copyright owner. If the copyright owner doesn't want it monitized, they will delete it from the site.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/09/20 09:20 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Does anyone know what is allowed in terms of sharing homemade cover-versions of copyrighted songs?
Here's what I want to do: I used BiaB and other programs to make a bunch of background tracks for songs that I like to play on my saxophone. I've put a lot of work into these tracks and thought it would be nice to share with others who might want to use them, maybe by putting my recordings on YouTube. I have no intention of making money off the recordings -- this is just a hobby -- but I also don't want to get sued.
Does anyone know if what I am wanting to do is legal, per copyright laws? If a BIAB background track does not contain the covered melody then there are no copyright issues. Having said that there are thousands of covered songs with melodies on YouTube. I think that YouTube ignores them unless there is a specific complaint. Tony
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I would never cover a licensed song without buying a license. Licensed songs are intellectual property and other than the exceptions Herb mentioned all rights of use belong to the owner. Licenses can be obtained from the Harry Fox agency and it's not an expensive way to respect the ownership. FWIW, Be safe and well. Bud PS Perhaps I feel a bit strong about this as years ago we read on line a review of a song we wrote, recorded and released. But it was not by us. I spare the details of what happened after that. 
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PG Music's policy about posting covers on this site is based on YouTube. You have to post it there first and if YT doesn't take it down you're good, go ahead and post it here. Otherwise no. Guitarhacker's description of how it works with YT is what I've read as well. The rights owner controls it and that could be anybody, an agency, a huge corporation like Sony Music or anybody else who bought the rights, not just the original artist.
The concept here that so many miss is a song is property just like a lawn mower sitting in your yard is property. A neighbor can't simply come over to your yard and take it just because it looks like you're not doing anything with it, right? You have no right to do ANYTHING public with somebody else's song either. In your own house, fine but not publicly and posting it anywhere on the internet is called digital publishing which also means public. Money has absolutely nothing to do with it because it's not yours to give away no more than your neighbor can give away your lawnmower. He didn't make any money on it so why can't he give it away?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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PG Music's policy about posting covers on this site is based on YouTube. You have to post it there first and if YT doesn't take it down you're good, go ahead and post it here...
Bob Nope. All one has to do is visit the User Showcase forum and read the long standing rules at the top of the page (see below). You must own all rights to the song to post. It has nothing to do with YouTube. This is only in reference to the Showcase forum where many thousands of songs are posted. Per forum policy: “The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs.” Be safe. Bud
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RunandWrite,
I think you are asking one question and our fellow forumites are interpreting it as another.
I think what everyone other than Tony thinks you are saying is “Hey, I recorded a bunch of YouTube videos of me playing my saxophone over a backing track I made with BIAB. Are there copyright issues with that?”
I think what you are actually saying is this: “I made a bunch of backing tracks that I generally use to back myself up when I play the sax. I think it would be cool to share these backing tracks on YouTube for other people to use.”
If I’m correct about what your inquiry actually is, then the answer is, if you are careful about how you do it, you can avoid infringing anyone’s copyright.
First, you can freely distribute recordings that you have created with BIAB, as long as you’ve not infringed on the copyright of a third party.
The next thing to consider is this: The chord progression of a song is not subject to copyright, so as long as you haven’t recorded the melody of a song or some readily identifiable riff, you have not infringed on a copyright by providing a backing track of chords created by BIAB. Tony has already made this comment.
But you are not home free just yet. It’s been my observation, that you can run afoul of someone’s copyright ownership by identifying your background track using the copyrighted title of someone else’s work. For instance if I use BIAB to create a backing track for the Beatles song, Yesterday, and say that here is a backing track for Yesterday, I probably have infringed on Lennon and McCartney’s copyright.
However, if I say something like, “Here is a song about the Day before Today by The Liverpool Four, I’ve probably done enough to communicate what the backing track can be used for without stepping on John & Paul’s rights.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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YouTube may still mess with an upload even if you do as Keith suggested. Algorithms are people there. Clear instances of "fair-use" are still demonetized (or worse) on occasion. Some copyright holders are more "protective" than others, but covers still abound.
Don't worry so much about being sued. Nobody is going to come after any money that you didn't make on YouTube. Worry about having to keep up with YouTube's rules and enforcement. They may make what you are planning more hassle than fun. Probably NOT, but it might happen.
If you don't infringe, I'd say "Test the waters". See what happens. If you do, you shouldn't have, and you may find out. But you won't "get sued".
Last edited by Tangmo; 04/09/20 03:27 PM.
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I feel I am opening up a can of worms here but here goes. The content ID system on YouTube is VERY advanced. I have over 21 million views on my YouTube channel, 90 % of it is “other people’s material”. They get paid, I grow my YouTube channel and other things happen. It is a win win. My advice, don’t let people make you feel bad for wanting to produce art and share that art. You are welcome to pm me. Edited to add: Check out www.wearethehits.com "Where video creators and songwriters get paid for their cover videos. Legally"
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 04/09/20 11:37 PM.
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Hi Joanne,
I've had a look at your Youtube site a number of times over the years. You've done a really great job! It wasn't all that long ago that you were sitting on 10,000,000 views! It's pretty awesome what you've accomplished.
May it continue to grow for you.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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The content ID system on YouTube is VERY advanced. A bit, too advanced, actually. I was "attending" my church's live streaming service on YouTube last night, when it stopped mid-song with a notice that the video was removed because it violated YouTube's Terms of Service. Apparently the YouTube algorithm (correctly) decided that the songs were under copyright, (incorrectly) assumed they weren't licensed for broadcast, and applied a take-down notice during the live feed.  I guess that's what happens when the pianist follows the sheet music too closely. That wouldn't have happened if I had been playing piano. 
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Man, it just gets deeper and deeper with YT doesn't it?
When I talked about PG's policy about it's ok to post a cover on the forum if it's already on YT, I didn't mention the Showcase forum and I should have. Yes, that forum is strictly for originals you own. But for any other forum where you want to post a cover of whatever song for discussion, the YT policy is still there unless they're changed it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RunandWrite,
I think you are asking one question and our fellow forumites are interpreting it as another.
I think what everyone other than Tony thinks you are saying is “Hey, I recorded a bunch of YouTube videos of me playing my saxophone over a backing track I made with BIAB. Are there copyright issues with that?”
I think what you are actually saying is this: “I made a bunch of backing tracks that I generally use to back myself up when I play the sax. I think it would be cool to share these backing tracks on YouTube for other people to use.”
If I’m correct about what your inquiry actually is, then the answer is, if you are careful about how you do it, you can avoid infringing anyone’s copyright.
First, you can freely distribute recordings that you have created with BIAB, as long as you’ve not infringed on the copyright of a third party.
The next thing to consider is this: The chord progression of a song is not subject to copyright, so as long as you haven’t recorded the melody of a song or some readily identifiable riff, you have not infringed on a copyright by providing a backing track of chords created by BIAB. Tony has already made this comment.
But you are not home free just yet. It’s been my observation, that you can run afoul of someone’s copyright ownership by identifying your background track using the copyrighted title of someone else’s work. For instance if I use BIAB to create a backing track for the Beatles song, Yesterday, and say that here is a backing track for Yesterday, I probably have infringed on Lennon and McCartney’s copyright.
However, if I say something like, “Here is a song about the Day before Today by The Liverpool Four, I’ve probably done enough to communicate what the backing track can be used for without stepping on John & Paul’s rights. There's no misunderstanding here. He says he wants to create a BB track of a cover song and SHARE it with others. That is a copyright violation. It doesn't matter how "careful" you are. If it's a cover and you don't have the rights to it, you're infringing. It's only legal to do that for PERSONAL use. As soon as you put it out for someone to hear or use, you have violated the copyright laws. Chord progressions as you pointed out are not copyrightable (generally speaking) , but it doesn't sound remotely like that's his plan. If you record a chord progression and call it (as in your example) Yesterday, AND the chord progression is for the song Yesterday, you have in fact violated the law. A reasonable jury would slam dunk that for the writers faster than you could sing the old Hee Haw song, Gloom, dispair, and agony on me. Fancy verbage doesn't negate the law my friend. The best option is if someone wants to record a cover, keep it under wraps or post it on YouTube where they will monitize it or remove it for you.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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If you record a chord progression and call it (as in your example) Yesterday, AND the chord progression is for the song Yesterday, you have in fact violated the law. IANAL, and this is the internet, but neither the chord progression nor the title can be copyrighted. So what law has been violated in your example? Of course, I'm not so foolish as to test this theory out myself.
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Don't fear.
Here's a cheap suggestion, assuming it's just the backing tracks and not your sax playing you want to share. Post your videos to YouTube. Name them innocuously. Post your links to videos elsewhere with more explicit and specific descriptions. Have fun. Trust me...nothing horrible is going to happen to you. There is a slight chance that something mildly annoying might happen. Heck, this thread may be the most mildly annoying thing that happens in the whole venture.
Joanne, what a great link! What will they think of next?
Last edited by Tangmo; 04/10/20 02:22 PM.
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I agree with tangmo. Make the videos and share them on YouTube. Don’t worry about whether to name it funny and don’t worry if you are playing the sax to the exact melody. Nothing bad will happen. They can’t sue you for money you aren’t making. They “may” monetize your video and they might not. YouTube is designed that way. If you want to make money visit www.wearethehits.com and trust me that you may make a few cents.
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Joanne, Do you go through wearethehits.com for your play-along videos? Just curious since it seems he's wanting to offer essentially the same thing - he's just using play-alongs he created himself with biab tracks.
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While the legal and technical differences between trying to steal someone's song and playing it for yourselves or others may be nonexistent, the reality is much different.
If Stephen Foster were alive today, I don't think he'd be b*tching or suing anyone for singing "My Old Kentucky Home" on youtube.
People need to lay off trying to scare people out of playing covers for youtube. I've watched hundreds of them and I've never heard of anyone getting sued for posting one.
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Joanne, Do you go through wearethehits.com for your play-along videos? Just curious since it seems he's wanting to offer essentially the same thing - he's just using play-alongs he created himself with biab tracks. Hi Josie Yes, I do use them for some of my play along videos. It is complicated but you are welcome to PM me. And yes wearethehits caters specifically for people who want to make money from covers on Youtube. (The OP said he wasn't interested in making money) While the legal and technical differences between trying to steal someone's song and playing it for yourselves or others may be nonexistent, the reality is much different.
If Stephen Foster were alive today, I don't think he'd be b*tching or suing anyone for singing "My Old Kentucky Home" on youtube.
People need to lay off trying to scare people out of playing covers for youtube. I've watched hundreds of them and I've never heard of anyone getting sued for posting one. +200!
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 04/10/20 09:49 PM.
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Before anyone takes a stick to me. I’m just tossing this out there.
It seems there is a line between its wrong and just do it and have fun. That’s really the line of principle.
Are you going to get in trouble most likely not. Is it really right to steal or violate another persons rights based on whether or not they will sue or punish you for it? I think Herb and Bob are speaking about what’s morally right, and the rest of you are speaking about what you can get away with legally.
Interesting subject in the least and sadly a classic example of where our society has headed in our lifetimes. We speak more of what someone can get away with more than what a person should morally do.
In most countries what is moral and what is legal are two very different things. It is like the so called justice system. We don’t really have one of those, what we have is a legal system where we debate what one can or can’t do legally or by law. Not a justice system as to what is just and right. Personally to me that’s the bigger picture. YMMV oh by the way I have no desire to debate, defend, or argue my views here. Just saying. I gotta run now my grass needs cutting and the neighbors lawnmower is just sitting there!
Last edited by Rob Helms; 04/11/20 01:22 AM.
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