PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box VST and Pro Tools/AAX DAW Plugin (Windows) cubase 10.5 pro crashes

Hello The Daw plugin keeps crashing my cubase any ideas of what to check
PAul

Welcome.

What version of the DAW are you using?

Welcome to the forum. In addition to the above, we (fellow users) will need much more info to assist you. Windows 10? What version and build of BIAB and the plugin? Is 10.5 the latest build of Cubase, and did the plugin work on a prior version? What is the error message you get?

Until this issue is fixed you can try using it in KV Element
Free Plugin Chainer Element + BB VST3 Support + More Midi Tracks Win\Mac
load KV ElementVST i or FX into a Cubase track, now drag and drop
Band-in-a-Box DAW VST3 Plugin.vst3
into it and hook up the audio and midi in/out, then click the EXT up in the top left to sync.

The latest Plugin is crashing in Cubase 10.5 LE
but seems to work ok with KV Element.
At the top left of the Cubase VST wimdow set it off of Always On Top for it to be On Top to drag the BBvst into it, and set the EXT to sync.
Full Screen Pic

Hi - I too have this issue and the above solution doesn't cure it (tried last night).

I'm running:-
Cubase 10.5.20
BIAB2020 DAW Plugin 2.12.15
(Full Audiophile version of BIAB2020)

When you open the VST instrument editor window for BIAB2020 the entire Cubase DAW environment will randomly crash out to the desktop – sometimes within a few seconds, sometimes after a few minutes – no warnings, nothing. It is so unstable it’s very unlikely to allow me to select a style, generate it AND STAY OPEN long enough to copy the WAV files to the DAW.

NOTE THAT THIS ONLY HAPPENS if the BIAB window is open – with the plugin window closed, it never crashes even though it’s still loaded on a track.

The Cubase environment was 100% stable PRIOR to using this plugin.

AFTER crashing back to the desktop, it may take many attempts to restart Cubase (typically 3 or 4), and when it DOES load there is always no audio – quitting once more and reloading seems to eventually cure this.

The crash logs from Cubase report failures in several different modules.

No other VST plugins have this effect (and I have many).

The computer has HUGE amounts of resource – it is VERY high end.

I have raised a suipport ticket but heard nothing.

At present as this product was purchased purely for the DAW integration, it's completely useless to me. :-(

Paul.

Did you try both VST3 and VST2, Instrument and FX version in Element ?

Hi, no I only tried the VST3 version I think as this one was the only version listed in the dropdown (drag and drop wouldn't work).

BIAB 2020 has only installed a VST3 version (looking at the VST2 folder there isn't a BIAB plugin).

P.

They should all be in C:\bb\BBPlugin\Files
just drag them from there directly into Element.
If Cubase is running as administrator then you would have to run the file explorer you drag the vst from as administrator.

Here's the KV Element link.

Hello,

Is this problem only happening in build 2.12.15?

In your Band-in-a-Box folder, go to data\installers and see if you have the file biab_daw_plugin_2.12.9. This is the previous build - can you please install it and see if you still have the same problem?

UPDATED:-

Thank you all for your input - see comments:-

PIPELINE - I've tried dragging both VST2 (.dll) and VST3 (.vst3) files into Element and the result is identical - completely random and catastrophic crashes back to the desktop. The VST2 (.dll) file seems to be worse as I don't even get chance to couple it up in Element. VST3 allowed me to choose a style and load chords but crashed out completed when I hit generate. Each time it's the same result - dead cubase on restart (IF it restarts) and NO audio until I re-run about 4 or 5 times.

If I don't use the BIAB DAW editor window, it's all super stable.

ANDREW - I only have 2.12.15 - there is no other version of the biab_daw_plugin in the installers folder. :-(

Therefore I cannot comment on if it's only 2.12.15

Ok, you could install the build 730 patch and it will add that file.
https://nn.pgmusic.com/pgfiles/support/patches/bb2020_win_update_build730.exe

(you could then re-install the latest BB program build 734, and de-select the option to install the DAW Plugin update)

ANDREW - many thanks for this suggestion, sorry for the delay - big time difference here in the UK - I have applied the 730 update (replacing the DAW with 2.12.9) and then upgraded back to 734 (NOT replacing the DAW).

This introduces new, different problems though.

EDIT : Although I have successfully managed to render ONE style and copy the WAV files, the DAW Editor will only allow me to select a style and render ONCE - if you attempt to change the style it will crash as per below description. Quitting Cubase, creating a new EMTPY project, adding the BIAB VST and selecting/rendering a style will work again ONCE, but you have to create a new project every time or the following problems occur:-

This is the observed behaviour (which is repeatable) with 2.12.9 after the first successful render ...

Open BIAB DAW Editor again - select a new style, preview a style (works), select LOAD DEMO (for testing), Editor disappears, CUBASE hangs.

Only escape is by Task Manager > END TASK (Cubase shows not responding).

Restart Cubase, reload the project, repeat, same problem with any style I've tried.

THIS IS DIFFERENT in that it doesn't crash out to the desktop and Cubase starts normally next time round without audio problems AND if you start a new project every time you can successfully choose a style and render ONCE only.

I've also tried this via ELEMENT as suggested above, with the similar results.

:-(

Paul.

Hi all, we have so far been unable to reproduce the problem on our end. We're using Cubase 10.5.20 with BB 734 and plugin 2.12.15 without issues, perfectly stable.

Are you using an external audio interface or just your internal sound card? Can you tell us which Windows build you're using? Right click on the Start menu and choose Run, then enter in winver and press enter. What version number and build number are showing there?

Previous versions of Windows 10 had trouble with a lot of audio software - in particular, Windows 10 versions 1903 and 1909 were not great. We suggest Windows 10 version 2004, which should be available in Windows Update.

Hi Simon - thanks - yes I have 1909 - I'll update to 2004 and see if it helps.

It's fully patched but I've avoided 2004 on this main PC of mine due to some unrelated issues on other equipment with 2004.

Happy to try it if you think it will help.

I'm using my internal Creative Sound Blaster Card with their own ASIO drivers.

P.

OK nearly two hours of software updates.

Windows 10 Pro totally patched up to date v2004
All motherboard chipset drivers up to date
Sound card drivers up to date (Soundblaster AE-9)
Graphics card drivers up to date
Cubase Pro up to date
REINSTALLED latest BIAB 734 patch WITH latest DAW plugin update

All, exactly the same.

Create new empty project, add BIAB DAW VSTi, choose style, load demo, generate, copy wavs OK, go back to DAW plugin, change style, load demo BANG DEAD, Cubase hung (not responding) and BIAB editor window disappears. TASK MANAGER END TASK.

Reload Cubase, no audio. Restart 3 or 4 times, recovers. Repeat (either loading new project or existing one above).

NOTHING ELSE causes these crashes, no other plugins, nothing. Cubase is (amazingly) REALLY stable on this build until I load this plugin!

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp

You should not have to do all that to try and get the Plugin to work.
If you have this also
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=606670
then if there is an issue with the Plugin build you can use the sync vst to sync Biab main app to Cubase.

Thank you... we are still trying to track this down. Can you repeat the statement above, but include more detail. E.G. how did you add the plugin, which style did you select, which demo button (the one of the main screen, or the one in the StylePicker), which wav button did you copy... There might be one specific thing in your workflow that's exposing this bug.

Also, in the meantime if there is a project you are working on and you don't need the sync, you could try using the "stand-alone" version of the plugin (you'll find this in the bb\BBPlugin\files folder).

Hi Andrew - thanks for your continuing support - hope this is enough detail - if not I'm happy to arrange a remote session with you guys at a mutually convenient point and you can see this for yourselves. I have raised a support ticket on this subject so you have my contact details (Saturday 10th October).

So in this case, whilst trying to list more explicit instructions, it crashed before I could even generate anything - this is all I did:-

FIRST ATTEMPT
1) Open Cubase
2) Click "Create Empty"
3) Open VST Instruments
4) Drag BIAB Plugin to Empty Track (BIAB Editor window opens)
5) In BIAB Editor, click the blue Select a Style ...
6) Choose a style by highlighting it
7) Click Load Song Demo
8) EVERYTHING DISAPEARED back to the desktop and CUBASE/BIAB has crashed out (no longer in task manager)

SECOND ATTEMPT
1) Open Cubase - bypass crash error window and start normally
2) Click "Create Empty"
3) Open VST Instruments
4) Drag BIAB Plugin to Empty Track (BIAB Editor window opens)
5) In BIAB Editor, click the blue Select a Style ...
6) Choose a style by highlighting it
7) Click Load Song Demo - THIS TIME IT WORKED
8) Click Generate - WORKED
9) Drag Style Mix ALL purple button to empty tracks in Cubase > copy as different tracks - WORKED
10) Play to test - WORKED (with chords highlighted in BIAB Editor Window)
11) Stop Playback
12) In BIAB Editor, click the blue Select a Style ...
13) Choose a style by highlighting it
14) Click Load Song Demo
15) THIS TIME Style Window disappears but Cubase HANGS (and the BIAB Editor Window does not come back) - Cubase is frozen Irrecoverably (NOT RESPONDING) but still using some CPU resource

NOTE at point 15) this will sometimes crash back to desktop with Cubase and BIAB terminated as in the first attempt.

It does seem to be random - on ONE occasion, I managed to perform 12) to 15) more than once before it crashed, but it's unpredictable.

EDIT : On restarting Cubase after 15) above - I normally see something about an error in ...\Cubase 10.5\Components\baios.dll but this does vary.

P.

OK chaps, alarming amount of radio silence on this problem.

I have provided you with all the information you've asked for, and offered a remote session opportunity to help get to the bottom of this ...

To add to the dilemma, I can't even run BIAB standalone alongside Cubase - the two applications just will not run alongside each other - similar issues, random crashes (of BIAB) which take out Cubase in the same way.

Most of the time, Cubase still reports a crash in BAIOS.DLL.

I can't see any useful way of using BIAB with Cubase on this build - I re-iterate, no other plugins or VST Instruments are causing problems.

Whilst I appreciate that this may be something unique to the set up (audio card / drivers etc.) I need to know if you can help me or not as I am being chased by the distributer for an update on the refund request.

Hope someone get's this message! Really want to be able to use this product with my DAW.

P.

Are you talking about the standalone Plugin or the main Biab app ?
Did you set Cubase to release the ASIO driver in the background ?
and same if you are using the main Biab app.

I think Adar is working on the new ver 3 Plugin at the moment, that's why it is slow around here, normally he would be right onto it.

If you could use Reaper in trial mode then when all the tracks are made up by the Biab Plugin just drag them out of Reaper into Cubase.
Have you got existing tracks in Cubase you want to add Biab tracks to ?

Hey Pipeline ... I'm talking about the main BIAB app.

Yes I did set Cubase to release the ASIO driver in the background - I found that if I didn't I couldn't preview the styles.

If Cubase and the main BIAB app are both running simultaneously, the same type of crashes occur.

I don't want to really introduce another DAW.

So to date, the only way I can use BIAB is to make sure it's being run without Cubase running anywhere, maybe I could export then import WAVs, but it's really not very intuitive and a clumsy way to work.

My machine build isn't unusual - the hardware is very high end, but software build pretty standard. I can only think this is related to my Creative sound card which may be less common these days.

It sounds like it could be the Creative card.
Another thing to try is this with Voicemeeter
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=570554#Post570554

- To clarify, do you mean without any use of the BIAB DAW Plugin?

- Also, to clarify.. you did or did not have this problem with Cubase 10.0?

- If you select MME as your driver type in Band-in-a-Box (instead of ASIO or WAS) does the same thing happen? (reboot both programs before testing).

- Windows Control Panel | Sound | Device Properties | Properties | Advanced...
"Allow Applications to take exclusive control.."
--> try unchecking and see if it makes any difference.

Let us know what you find.

In addition, in Cubase can you set it to use the Generic Low Latency ASIO Driver instead of the Creative driver?

jeesh come on people , tell it like it is.
recording forums are littered with problems with certain types of sound cards/on board sound.

slayyer. uk.
my creds (deep tecchie background n born within the sound of bow bells in uk. thats your clue.)
GET A PROPER USB AUDIO INTERFACE FOR RECORDING WORK mate.
1. form a good relationship with a pro music store that will allow returns in 30 days.
then try various audio interfaces. ssl/motu/steinberg/focusrite/zoom and various others.
see google for complete list. MAKE SURE YOU CAN RETURN IT.
BECAUSE WHAT MIGHT WORK IN ONE COMPUTER MIGHT NOT IN YOURS.
2. you say you have a high end computer mate. desktop ??lappie ??
i assume this high end pc has high speed USB
ports ??
details mate.
blimey there are all kinds.
you want at least i5 processor with at least 8 gigs of ram and PREFERABLY 2 ssd's.
ie 2 drives. one for windows and one for recording.
this lets win do its own thing and win doesnt interfere.


sorry to jump in , but ive seen this prob just too many times on various recording sites.
if it STILL HAPPENS with different test interfaces THEN
it IS a biab problem probably.
its like a game of clue mate, eliminating suspects one at a time.lol.

i personally still prefer to transfer traks from biab to the multitrack daw the old way.
i set up a folder in win with the song name. this folder i use to hold all biab and daw files.
easy peasy. i do a few traks in biab then xfer them into the named song folder, and then open up the daw (in his case cubase), and load in the traks from the named win folder.

fellow long time pg users , back me up on this.
i'm not trying to create a BARNEY. (more clues.)
you KNOW what i say is true.
yeah you can get away probably with his sound device/on board sound. but its not optimal.

Hey justanoldmuso - hearing you ... thanks for the comments and good to hear you're still on the scene! Going to try the last of the suggestions from the PG guys tonight.

PC spec is just silly, Core i9, 64G Mem, 4 M.2 High end SSDs blah blah, silly spec. You could run NASA off this thing.

Sound card is Creative AE-9 Audigy - connected on PCI-E v2 slot which is more or less the same interface speeds of USB3.0 - so there's little advantage to an external unit - it's not used for recording, only for low latency output from the VST instruments with MIDI controllers etc.

I'm from a (distant) music studio production environment and my career is based entirely on complex computing technology, this stuff is second nature really - but a problem like this is just plain irritating for both the authors and myself.

Always appreciate additional input and glad the guys from PG are still responding, but the sad reality of it is ... WHAT WORKS ON ONE MACHINE MIGHT NOT WORK ON ANOTHER as you say ... :-)

P.

Simon / Andrew - thanks again for the suggestions. I tried every single one of them in many combinations, end result is the same. Random crashes.

HOWEVER in the several hours I've spent, I've discovered something significant:-

STABILITY can be obtained by ensuring that the Cubase "Release Driver when Application is in Background" is NOT ticked. i.e. it does NOT release the driver.

In this mode I am able to use everything fairly reliably, BUT I CANNOT AUDITION STYLES AND REALTRACKS.

Is there any way to be able to audition from the style and realtrack lists without having to enable this feature in Cubase? It definitely has a significant effect on stability.

slayyer uk.
ok that is high end for this era of computing.
however the devils in the details.
(frankly my position is that processors still need a quantum leap in performance to support the demands of high load recording studios and industrial engineering etc , and for fluidity. but the problem is the laws of physics. which is why processor manufacturers went to multi-cores. )

my comments.
if this system was purchased from a general retail computer store (was it ??) rather than a builder of custom pc's for recording studios. then i would take the following steps if that were my system.
1. keep it off the net. my recording system never sees the net. i have a seperate system i use for surfing the net.
2. if the system has not been optimised for recording studio work and you anticipate high system load like a boatload of traks , and insane numbers of high cpu use plug ins , and large sample and orchestral libs etc etc i would consider getting the system optimised. so that the system is gone through by a specialist.
heres reason why. sometimes what happens is , a general user or gamer gets an insane system then decides to use it as a recording studio. but sometimes problems can occur because
it hasnt been optimised for recording studio work.
also often brand new systems contain a lot of redundant "fluff". a specialist will get rid of anything that is not essential to the recording task at hand.
i personally never buy for my recording set up a new pc sold at general retail. because they often have redundunt "stuff".
i prefer refurbs because they are cleaned up and gone over in detail by the company doing the refurb, and i also save lots of money.
3.i would also familiarise yourself with sites where people from big studios hang out, if not already done so .
here at pg of course, but also such places as recording.org, gearslutz.com, your own cubase user forum of course etc etc. tapeop is also an interesting gear site. and there are many others.
also i would read the links i provide about dawbench in the pg tech help sos forum . or google DAWBENCH. they have podcasts/website/you tube site etc etc, and are people who specialise in testing various recording daw software set ups, and audio interfaces, and pc' configs etc.
(but long threads to digest.)

if you go to some of these pro recording sites you will see that my questioning of your choice of on board sound device is valid. most recording rigs use proper pro sound devices.

if problems persist, and IF its not a biab issue, then i would suggest more detective work.
at least if were me i would rent from some reputable pro recording store in uk, sound interfaces.
for example a high end one is RME. revered. great drivers. but pricey.
a cheap one is the behringer uphoria some folks like, and maintain is surprisingly good little money.
also your cubase user forum will have lots of info on which sound devices people like.
there is a new one out by the "legendary" SSL (of big studio recording console fame.) inexpensive. but ive had no time to test. (see you tube for ssl 2+ tests etc.)
there are many others. just google audio interfaces for recording studios. you will see on your cubase forum people
useing all sorts from lots of companies.

i had to ask you for system details , because in the past people have given me wrong info when i tried to help them with a prob.
you seem to indicate that its for playback only.
or am i wrong ??

so what are you useing to record vocs and other live traks ??

from your moniker slayyer i suspect guitar traks ??
cos i'm baffled by your statement.
are you useing another studio then transferring the traks to your intel i9 system ??
just useing i9 for mixing ??
i'm just trying to get the whole picture. this is where you confuse me.

just be aware there are lots of possible reasons for problems.
i know you probably dont want to do this. but, were i in your position i would certify at least that system drivers and sound device drivers are okey dokey, and there are no flags/warnings in win control panel.

i'm assuming you dont get this prob when cubase is running plug ins other than biab.
eg other vst'is /vsts /sample libs etc etc. just with biab ??

i'm curious. in pg realband action>>test audio performance.
how many traks reported back ?? it should be a slew. and with your system , the test should run in nanoseconds lol.
my humble i5 refurb reports 191 traks. whats yours ??

also please tell me how long the i9 system takes from
cold start. not soft start. cold start turning main power on.
it should be blinkin fast mate. my i5 takes just a few seconds, and i'm normally displaying my tracks in my daw
song with in total 15 to 20 secs from cold boot.
does it also power down ultra fast when you win SHUTDOWN ??


(btw my granparents were "pearly". a clue. lol. )

You can do that using Voicemeeter Banana as described in the link above.

If the Biab Plugin had the RT/RD/MST/Loops Picker in the Plugin it's self and not the BBW4 app it would play the demos directly in the DAW.