I remember the same that Videotrack mentions, about more tracks. I agree, perhaps the easiest way to implement that is just to give us a choice how we use the 16 existing tracks.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
As everyone knows I am a big proponent of a complete rewrite for many reasons. ....
I was thinking that they could get away from the the old Delphi code in bbw (BBW4 that the Plugin uses in the background) and translate only the basic functions to "Generate" to the Plugin code, then I started my PC and a wallpaper came up in the spotlight logon screen, it was called Delphi, and it is an old ruins, still standing but only just, was that a message or what ? See moving just the needed code over to the Plugin language will let the Plugin develop at lighting speed rather than the nightmare of trying to update the old Delphi bbw with real time signatures, more chords per bar, more bars (over 255), decimal point tempos.
Many of us teaching programming surmised the problem in the early 1990s and were hired to rewrite code to avoid the problem. Thus 2000 came and went smoothly.
Originally Posted By: VideoTrack
I also worked extensively as an analyst in identifying and undertaking program changes, and exhaustive testing for year 2000 rollover. Everything was achieved successfully.
Matt and VT, thank you for explaining this! I always hear people saying something like "that whole Y2K thing was so overblown and hyped but everything went just fine." Yeah, everything went just fine because of folks like you two who saw the problem and fixed it!
Not intending to derail the thread, but seeing Y2K was mentioned, you might like to know this: My company was involved at that time in testing traffic signal controllers for year 2000 compliance. Traffic Signal Controllers are complex, multi-processor devices with conflict monitoring, schedulers, calendars, time-of-day clocks, safety interlocks, lamp monitoring and much more. They have to be absolutely safe and completely reliable. If Y2K was going to be a problem, then every signalized intersection in a city was going to have serious issues.
We sent instructions to our colleagues in Dublin, Ireland on the test procedure they should follow. They prepared to undertake rigorous advance testing, with a complete test environment system of management computers, communications networks all connected to a fully programmed traffic signal controller with output circuits and lamps all enabled. It was as close to real world as possible.
The computer clocks were set to a few minutes before midnight. Everyone watched anxiously as the time reached 23:59:59, but at the very next second everything blacked out, the controller shut down, and all the lights went out. Everyone was in shock and disbelief. Then they found that Dave Traynor had quietly pulled the plug out from the wall socket...
True story.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
To preface my comment PL, I absolutely admire the work you do, your skill, energy and contribution. It is always better than outstanding.
However, in fairness, your comparison to the Greek ruins and the Delphi RAD Studio development environment used by BiaB might be a tiny bit extreme.
The real time signatures, number of chords per bar, 255 bar limitation and decimal point tempos have nothing to do with any perceived limitations of the Object Pascal Language. Delphi has always had the capability to deliver all of those features. It can handle all of those requirements easily. (Separately, the name Delphi refers historically to 'a place where people were consulted about important decisions and knowledge').
Porting that BiaB code to another development environment would not fix those limitations. Those limitations are all totally related to the software design (the actual written code).
I understand that RealBand uses the same development environment (Delphi). But it doesn't seem to share the same limitations (limited number of tracks, number of bars, restricted to integer tempo values, etc).
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
If you want to "a complete rewrite" you could use Delphi, sure, but why ? The Plugin is developed quickly without limitations, all the limitations are with the BBW4 side and waiting for a communication line to be added. The deal is the "OLD" code that has to be modified, I would say that is where the bottle neck is, that these things aren't just "DONE" as they would be if it was ALL done in the Plugin code. The example is, if it can be done in Reaper without limitations, any time signature and more chords per bar, with some Lua script the same can be done moving the basic code to the Plugin and improving that rather than having to go through all the code in the old Delphi bbw, with a lot of code from the DOS days that is limiting things. Start afresh with the basics, get away from 1990 8.3 ACHYBRKY.MGU _SLOBLZ1.STY in the Plugin. "For TimeSigs higher than 4/4, each bar will be spread out over 2 or more bars (eg. 5/4 will be written as 3/4+2/4)." The RealDrums can be easily made to be Generated directly in the Plugin the same way it was in Reaper with a script. There could not be that much code to generate up the RealTracks from the RealTrack files, they have all the info you need just like the F5 UserTrack settings, the Plugin could also easily do the UserTracks without the need for BBW4. Like I can modify some Delphi forms and compile them back into the exe but I should have to do that.
RealBand is also a front end of the old bbw2 code it communicates with in the background and is limited to workarounds just like the Plugin. It will be good to see more tracks in Biab along with re-gen any bars, but the other major things like mentioned would maybe be better/easier implementing in the Plugin, also implement play from RAM in the Plugin ? I see the future in the Plugin that is not limited to workarounds and therefore can develop unhindered.
The deal is the "OLD" code that has to be modified
Yes, totally agree. If it is going to be ported/migrated/rewritten/whatever, then all that old code and DOS level restrictions, and using Integers instead of Reals in the software design has to be updated - not just ported across.
We're working from the same page
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
The deal is the "OLD" code that has to be modified
Yes, totally agree. If it is going to be ported/migrated/rewritten/whatever, then all that old code and DOS level restrictions, and using Integers instead of Reals in the software design has to be updated - not just ported across.
We're working from the same page
+1
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
I know I always say about the "old Delphi" but you see with the Plugin code the Mac/Win both look identical, both have the same features, both are released at the same time. This way the Plugin for both version could be released in Dec, the Mac Plugin would not have to wait for the BBW4.app into the next year.
imagine these simple buttons at top of chord view in biab/rb, (like one sees in google at top) < > like above to FLIP through chord pages. the whole way choruses have worked in biab has kinda bugged me. i think in terms of song start , intro, verse 1, chorus, verse 2 , chorus, lead break, another verse maybe, and then outtro to coda/fade whatever, and of course various variations of such.
a film person scoring music to picture probably thinks of "scenes". (i'm no scoring for picture expert.)
BUT IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER THIS WAY. just ability to "flip" easily thru chord view pages.
maybe pipeline could do one of his lovely graphics so people can see the idea. each chord view would be user annotated. eg verse 3, chorus 4, scene 7 whatever. so people could easily move around.
think of the benefits for people scoring for picture. eg "hmm gonna work on the big starcraft ufo battle today in scene 94 " and flip to it etc. and the scene video is playing in the background.
at the moment in a complex rock song i have to set up sometimes a number of biab song files, and load up and work on them individually. and sort things out in the daw.
sorry pg, much as i love you guys this chorus approach as it stands irks me.
best muso. ps pipeline have at a graphic.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
pipeline. yup i know bout unfolding. i far prefer the idea of flipping thru chord pages. think of it like flipping thru a music book. or while a person is playing a concert grand piano, an assistant is turning over the pages of the music score etc. same idea. or think of a 3 ring binder with tabs.
this everything in one unfold doesnt do it for me.
that graphic you have ?? now add tabs or arrows at the top. so i can flip thru different chord pages easily instead of one gigundous page. you know like tabbed windows dialogues ?
best. muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/17/2009:51 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Are the pages the sections ? so if we have 4 bars intro on page 1 16 bars of verse 1 on page 2 16 bars of chorus 1 on page 3 32 bars of verse 2 on page 4
if the section has more bars than the display is set to will it scroll down ?
so how do you know what is the next chord to play on the next page if you are playing along ? or is it only used for creating without anyone following the sheet ?
pipeline. 1. notice how at the top of this pg page it has a likkle house followed by biab windows thru about ? ie various sections of the forum ? now imagine INSTEAD < intro verse 1 chorus 1 verse 2 lead break verse 3 outtro > but totally named by the user, and totally user configerable. a TABBED DIALOG , and the arrows let one move backwards or forwards thru the tabs. rather like one used to go to/fro on a cassette deck. 2. thus if the intro is only 4 bars say and verse 1 immediately follows it auto flips to the verse 1 chord page etc. each page is a limit of 255 bars , if indeed this is a tech limitation STILL. thus an intro or anything (verse, lead break , outtro , whatever ) could be up to 255 bars. but if 255 goes the way of the dodo bird. grrreat.
SO IN YOUR EXAMPLE PL. so if we have 4 bars intro on page 1 16 bars of verse 1 on page 2 16 bars of chorus 1 on page 3 32 bars of verse 2 on page 4
there would be 4 horizontal TABS. and 4 chord view pages. intro. verse 1. chorus 1. verse 2. yes will scroll down, and could have a advance scroll feature whereby next page starts loading just before last page ends mate. so its look ahead.
best. muso. (love your graphics.)
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/17/2001:51 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Yes I get what you mean about Tabs but I have Firefox open now with about 100 Tabs, if you want the nameable section Tabs you would need to have a scroll arrow at each end so when like me you have too many Tabs to fit across the screen you would need to scroll them, and for if you resize the GUI. I added some Tabs to Rustyspoon# GUI example:
pipeline. re 100 tabs. thats why i included the scroll arrows < and > yes like those tabs. now could you do chord view graphic example with tabs at top and like this. < tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab etc > < and > are for scrolling. i'm useless at graphics lol.
best. muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
I like the way the OP thinks! Innovative and forward.
However, in this case I'd prefer they leave the Chord Sheet view alone! Of all the various tools I use to make music this one is maybe the best for functionality. It fills most of the screen. It scrolls vertically as needed. It is easy to read quickly.
JohnJohnJohn NO NO NO ! nothing would change for you. you would just use the current lets call it the classic chord view. and ALSO there would still be a vertical scroll bar. only diff would be tabs added at top plus <> scroll for those of us that want this feature.(optional !!)
best. muso
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 11/17/2004:04 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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