PG Music Home Forums General Discussion User Showcase The Time It Takes (Synthesizer V)

I've learned that I have to listen to your projects as something unique, something my musical sensibilities have no history with. Doing that, I find them very enjoyable. There's a lot going on and I can appreciate what it took for the various elements to play well together. You are definitely on a musical journey, one that we get to share with you. I'll be listening for sure.

Sounds like you're really polishing your synth skills.

Moto

Mr. Cuny...

I didn't know what 'Synthesizer V' was until I listened to your song. And then, I was startled, and impressed by what I believed was some pretty good (meaning human-sounding) phrasing in the lead singer's voice. The second voice provided a great deal of the pleasure I experience when I listen to some J.S. Bach-like instrumental harmonizing. It sounded so inspired that I felt the song could easily have been transformed into a liturgical composition with organ accompaniment!

To my ears the song had somewhat of a 'Steely Dan' kind of rhythmic and chordal feel to it that I enjoyed. The dense lyric structure was kind of hypnotic in its non-stop, wall-to-wall melodic motion. The effect was increased in the interplay/counterpoint between the lead and the second voice.

You wrote a lot about your creative process. How much of the final result was inspiration, and how much was perspiration?

Hi, Sean.

Thanks, I'm glad to heard you liked the harmonies.

I feel like I should put a banner at the top of the song: Abandon all preconceived notions, all Ye who listen!


I'll do what I can to keep your interest, thanks!

Truthfully, I'm going to go back and fix that "talking" part... it doesn't quite fit right. But yeah, it's interesting trying to get the synthetic voice to perform like a singer.

Thanks for stopping by to comment!

Hi David,

Tune - I like the 16th Rhythm and chord structure.

Genre - I think this may belong in the Jazz/Blues/R&B section. (this is a good thing!)

Vocals - am I right in thinking this is a completely synthesized vocal? If so the lead vocal sounds just right - jazzy and etherial (how do you spell that?) but the second voice doesn't work for me at all - it just gets in the way of a good song.

If it was me - I would get one of the plethora of local female singers in your area to sing this - they can do it online.

I would love to hear a remix.

Best Regards
Nigel

Hi, Loren.

That's high praise! I'm nowhere near that level, but I appreciate the sentiment.

I'd actually studied "Bach style" counterpoint way back when, and even made some attempts at writing programs that could generate music in that style. I never really got past simple two-part inventions, though.

One thing I learned is that there are a lot of books that claim to teach in the "Bach style" that require learning all sorts of "rules" that Bach never followed.

I think the biggest thing I learned was this: Writing in the true style of "Bach" means not letting "rules" get in the way of a good melody.

But there's something truly magical and mystical about good harmony that transports listeners elsewhere, and if I can get even a bit of that, I'm happy.


Honestly, perhaps a bit too dense. What you're describing as positive attributes are ironically what I think of as the failings of the song - the density and lack of breathing space.

When writing, I'll often find I've worked myself into some sort of corner based on some bad decision. Given the option of starting over from scratch, or just hacking away until it's fixed, I'll usually choose the latter and hope I can salvage what I've done.


I was a little worried that responding these posts might incur the wrath of Eddie and have him accuse me of constantly putting my song back on the first page - but I couldn't resist answering this question.

Besides, he doesn't visit this part of the forum any more, does he?

Chord progressions are pretty straight forward: circle of fifths movement, common tones, inversions so roots move stepwise, and so on. I've got my favorite cliches, and with each song, I try to do something a little differently. I'm not sure this is always a good idea, since with most music, simple really is the best approach. But it makes me stretch a bit, which is good for me.

Melody writing is also "easy", in the sense that it can be thought of as chordal guide tones embellished rhythmically. The results may not always be "good", but they'll be functional. Once the melodic skeleton is in place, it's filled in and tweaked until it feels like a melody. That's about half technique and half inspiration.

Then comes the hard part: applying lyrics to the notes. With the melody in place, it's sort of obvious where the phrases are, and where the core ideas are going to go.

It's really a backwards way to do it, but last year I tried it the other way around and wrote no lyrics. So this is more painful, but get the job done.

And there are all sorts of "rules" about what a lyric should do - how to set up a scene, introduce a situation, give a POV, and so on.

The problem is that - at this point anyway - there's no inspiration, it's just all perspiration. My storytelling imagination is rusty and dull, and I'm boring. My general approach to life is "unnecessary risks are bad". That's certainly a safe way to live, but it doesn't provide much material for writing. I don't spend much time imagining the world through other people's eyes.

As I go through the process of trying to come up with lyrics, or even an idea that matches the mood of teh song - especially as several days pass without any real progress - there's more and more panic and perspiration. I know that it'll work out, but I also know that I've spent weeks just figuring out what a song "wants to say", and that's not a pleasant place to be.

Ironically, it's not like there's anything earth-shattering in lyrics. And once I get to the point of figuring out what the song is actually about, it's pretty straight-forward... but still a slog.

As for harmonies, they're a bit like writing the melodies. I've got a good idea of what I think the general shape of a phrase is going to be. If it doesn't work, I won't hesitate to change notes and durations. That's actually the fun part.

Did that answer the question?

Thanks!

"I can breathe again (Breathe again)
I'm coming out from Nowhere Land (Nowhere Land)
Didn't think I'd ever make (Make a start)
a brand new start"

Our favorite lines from a fine write.

We were struck how it could work for both a lover who left a relationship or as a lover who passed away.

As has been amply commented on each production ups your bar and on this one the harmonies pushed it up even higher. Well done.

"Honestly, this whole song feels hackneyed "
Total disagreement here. Period.

"if Bud can edit the drum parts in his song, who am I to do otherwise?"
Go for it! Tedious but worth it. They sound excellent.

"One of my goals with my mixes is to try to get a fair amount of clarity. That mostly happens when less instruments are playing. Although there are a good number of instruments on the track, they generally don't play together. For example, while there are several piano tracks, the piano that plays in the intro only appears there. "

Mission accomplished. We love open mixes ... mixes that breathe. We attempt that via few tracks and how you did that with this many had to require a LOT of thought and knob twisting.

Thanks for adding the fx chains. PG Music asks for that and few serve it up. I like reading and learning from it.

As always the backstory is icing on the cake.
We enjoyed it and the tune.

J&B

Hi dcuny,

I really appreciated your working method. Using synthetic voices is not really easy, especially since you have to avoid a nasal voice. Nectar 3 vst from Izotope may reduce this effect. It can be tested for free for 30 days, I believe. To come back to your composition, it's original and well done.

Kindly regard
alis JaniJackFlash

It's difficult to avoid a hackneyed rhyme.

This is an original sound, at least not one I'm familiar with. You not knowing the genre helped you create something special here.

I imagine having the synth voice is a cool way to hear "someone else" sing your compositions.

Captivating. I'm not a fan of jpop but that funk drive underneath grabbed me. Who don't love some good funk?
The drums.... Man... So many nice Easter eggs in there.
And Elenore.... Nice.

Yes, it was left intentionally vague.

And at this point in my life, I have more experience with losing people who have passed away than I do with lovers who have left me. So I'm sure that informs my writing.


Nice to hear from one of the key harmony singers on the forum!


I should have clarified - I think it's emotionally honest, but I meant "hackneyed" in the sense that the words feel like they've been used so many times, they're almost cliche.

I'm struggling with the reality that saying things in plain, simple language is actually OK.





Personally, I think you do it the right way. But I love big productions, so it's a self-inflicted wound, and I'm learning a bit more with every song.

I'm glad you were able to stop by and comment!

Hi, Derochette.

In comparison to singing the song, it's really slow. But because I'm making songwriting decisions as I go along, it's pretty ideal.

Plus, it lets me make changes even after I've done what I thought was the final mix, it's pretty cool.

I've also written a plug-in that makes it fairly easy to edit the vocal parameters.

As for the nasal tone... yep, that's an issue. I keep trying to fix it with EQ, but my ears aren't currently up to the task. But I'm still trying!


Thanks. I actually posted a version last night where I had taken off a number of effects to make the vocal less harsh, and changed a few of the phonemes.

I've got Nectar 3 Elements. I'm not sure why I couldn't find it before, but it's probably because I never learned to spell "nectar" correctly.

I'll play around with it and see if that improves it.


Thanks!

Yep! I just need to learn to embrace it when it's the right thing to do.


Thanks!


100%! Especially when I'm hypercritical of how my voice sounds.

Plus, they're always available if I want to change the melody or lyrics, and no matter how noisy it is in the house. That's really nice, because there's always something going on around here.

Thanks for the positive feedback!

I'm really happy that BiaB added these nice 70's RealTracks.

I can't really claim that this is anything close to authentic J-Pop, but that's probably just as well.


Thanks!

There's a new English voice that's being crowdfunded for SynthV called "SOLARIS" with Emma Rowley as the voice provider. The alpha demo song, is pretty rough, but it's based on a minimal voicebank, so I'm sure the final product - if they get funding - will be much better. It'll be good to have more than one voicebank to work with.

I really like this David. It's so good.

J-Pop is getting pretty hip-hoppy these days, and here is an example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uhh62MUEic&list=PL85dWO4i_3jZ1KkehTGKgpuQb4wcEWnge&index=3

There are tons of loops and samples to mix with the kind of thing you are doing to add a little more bounce.

Again, I like this, so this is just an idea for future stuff. Add some loops!

Also, pop is slightly more repetitive and less wordy than this, and I will let you have these for free:

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
It's you, it's you
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
It's you, it's you
I do
I do
I do
I do
I do

That was on the house man.

Thanks!


Nice song! Seems like the key here is still to build the chorus around a single line... preferably in a different language!

Most of what I've heard was from random covers of songs done using SynthV. This evening I was listening to a Japanese cover pointless tangent edited out from this paragraph, you're welcome - when my daughter was walking by and said "That's from Steven Universe! It's supposed to be upbeat, these vocals are all wrong!"

Can't imagine where my kids get those strong opinions about music from.

Anyway, turns out half the stuff I heard probably wasn't J-Pop to start with!


I agree about loops - BiaB doesn't seem to capture a very contemporary sound. Which is fine for me - most of the time - because that's not what I'm typically looking for.

Have you checked out RealiTone's Hip Hop Creator? It looks like a lot of fun to play with, but I duobt I'd ever use. I always get a kick listening to Mike Greene's walkthough videos - his enthusiasm and humor always make my day.

But I've been trying to stick with BiaB only for the moment, just to keep me focused. The next song is probably going to use some additional libraries, as I'm basing it off a BiaB style that's got a number of MIDI tracks, and I can use the MIDI strings to drive things like the NI Strummed Acoustic.


Thanks, you're the best!

This is my constant failing at pop songwriting!

Interesting backstory. I like the interplay between the lead and counter-melody. I have listened to a lot of K-pop (not J-pop) recently and imagine this would be an ideal vehicle for a Korean female duo. Nice job.

Hi David,

I like this a lot. It's the sort of music I listen to if I'm doing a long car journey at night.
I also like the synth vocals - something about the way it's not quite human really brings me out in goosebumps (in a good way).

It's got a good groove and it's nicely put together, but if I was being really picky I might think it was almost over-produced.
Not to say that there is anything wrong, more in the way that the attention to detail is so clinical that it almost
makes the arrangement too perfect. In the way that the voice isn't quite real, sometimes imperfection can be a good thing.
Does this make any sense to you, because I'm having trouble explaining what is really just an impression.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed the song and I have a great respect for the work you do with vocaloid.

Cheers,
ROG.