PG Music Home Forums FAQ and Knowledge Base I want a video that shows me how to .... Complete song making from Intro to End.

Yes, there are plenty of visual content available, but I feel none give a full picture of how to make a song from start to finish in one single video.

I have done a TeamViewer session with a friend today to show basic navigation and workflow of BIAB. He was blown away. I got tired too, showing as much as possible in 30 minutes we were connected.
Maybe selfish, but I feel that one of the videos I requested, that Kent made is one of the best subject related recent videos posted:
https://youtu.be/Fo9sben5x1M

I do think it is a good idea to have a tutorial on making full song, not fragmented video clips, explaining on the way, basic tools, options and techniques. Not only it will introduce basic operation to new users, but should give a general sense of what the program is capable of in single video for future buyers (I believe demo is not available for BIAB)

Perhaps: Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced with a dedicated tune for each video?
I suggested similar some time ago in different context.

P.S. After many (many!) hours I spent with program, I feel that I only know a fraction of what BIAB can do. So will gladly watch Intermediate and Advanced

One I think is pretty good was created by a user named Rick Campbell. Rick is a member of another forum. Rick created the video series for Band-in-a-Box users in that forum. +++ HERE +++ is a link to download the videos.

One issue is coming up with an outline or script. How do you determine what to demonstrate and what to ignore?

How much time do you spend on all the different install media options, audio and midi settings?

Are you going to enter the song by importing a midi file, importing an audio file and using the Audio Chord Wizard to determine chords, enter chords on the chord sheet, use the piano roll view or notation view?

Will the song have repeats and codas? Will the song have an intro? How about part markers? Lyrics? What to do about an ending?

I'm not degrading your suggestion. It's just harder to do than just sitting down and making a video.

The +++ Groove 3 +++ videos are the best organized videos I've seen for beginning Band-in-a-Box.

Jim, Thanks for sharing the links..
I am sure it has useful info., but looks like Ricks videos are almost decade old. I think a brand new user, or potential buyer would be turned off by that. Kent above was on the right path. I wish he would use minimalistic view
Ok, I am talking starting out with very simple full song tutorial...Intro->Verse->Chorus->Solo->etc.->Ending. All in-house BIAB content. A single video, no longer than 12-15 minutes.

Rough script idea:
1)Very basic interface/front end walkthrough/transport buttons.
2) Selecting existing style or from scratch (Existing style might be easier for beginner, so sorting style picker!)
3)Navigating / Sorting / auditioning individual RTs/Rd
4)Basic Mixer
5)Chord entry
6)Intro (song Form)
7)Markers (drum roll)
8)(Only) Mutes /Back to Normal at the bar for variation/arrangement purposes...as this is basic tune.
9)Ending
10)Export audio


-----
This could be a great referral, all in one tutorial. I got a name for it... BIAB video (Break-Into-A-Box)

Yes, I like the idea...I struggle with things like the auto generated ending not suiting my purposes as well as wanting changes of tempo, key or style for parts of a song.
The untutored BIAB song tends to have a very homogenous sound/structure/tempo & feel.

This is a great concept and judging by comments and questions across the forum threads, should have received much more than two posts of support. Some thoughts as to possibly why the lack of interest.

As both Jim and Misha noted, there are already many video tutorials of various degrees of complexity. Misha is correct that many are dated and somewhat antiquated. In most cases, although old, the principles and techniques are still valid but changes in the menu locations and GUI make it difficult for beginners to follow along.

< "I do think it is a good idea to have a tutorial on making full song, not fragmented video clips, explaining on the way, basic tools, options and techniques. Not only it will introduce basic operation to new users, but should give a general sense of what the program is capable of in single video for future buyers (I believe demo is not available for BIAB)" >

Exactly. This is completely correct but where I think the concept is losing users and prospective purchasers interest because it omits many basic features that are heard in the expertly programmed PG Music RealStyle demos. To address Jim's questions and Misha's rough script as well as rayc's excellent point that "The untutored BIAB song tends to have a very homogenous sound/structure/tempo & feel.", I believe the tutorial structure that's being offered is too basic, repetitive and unappealing.

The basic information being discussed is available now and easy to grasp with minimal instructions. It does not give a general sense of what the program is capable of in single video for users or future buyers. It doesn't provide the advanced level sound beginners and Prospective buyers are expecting to achieve and hear right out of the box.

Let me add here that many beginners and prospective buyers introduction to BIAB are programmed demos prepared by PG Music staff or completed songs by experienced users on the Users Showcase or as in Misha's instance, an experienced user demonstrating to a friend or fellow musician. What each of these scenarios have in common is they are not yielding homogenous, stagnant, cheesy songs but a more polished, professional sounding stereo file regardless whether they are completed within BIAB or moved to a DAW.

An issue with the rough script suggested is that it does nothing to make a user's early projects sound more as if it has some production elements added. The 'one' video that's been missing all along is the one that makes a song compiled, assembled and generated completely in BIAB sound full, finished and polished, Add to this short video tutorial features that have been overlooked in this discussion and that would appeal to users with other interests and intended end results for their finished song.

What I'm suggesting will take advantage of unmentioned features and processes that are programmed into BIAB that do many advanced editing features done without user interaction, forethought or audio editing knowledge like creating smooth transitions between instruments, fade in, fade out, grace notes, avoid abrupt instrument beginnings and endings, cross-fades, auto-mixing multiple instruments that occupy the same Mixer Channel, allows multiple instruments to share the same FX's or a single effect. Allows users of every skill level to create sub-mixes and bounce tracks with simple to follow steps and get satisfying results without additional post processing or requiring use of exporting tracks to a DAW. In short, create a more complex arrangement but where BIAB takes care of the complexities automatically in the background.

Why not a tutorial objective to produce a single video that produces polished results like a PG Music RealStyle demo and demonstrating how a beginner can achieve advanced, professional sounding results applying simple BIAB techniques? That's a video that currently doesn't exist. A single video can produce that quality of results in easy to follow step by step instructions but it can also include other features besides basic navigation, chord entry and post chord sheet entry editing and all the while showcases the true capability of BIAB.

An example rough script complete song from beginning to end:

1)Import a MIDI song file and convert it to a BIAB Style to create this demo song
2)Modify this new MIDI style replacing the Midi instruments with RealTracks and Midi Super Tracks
3)Audition and import a RT or MST Soloist instrument
4)Basic Mixer - Demonstrate the controls & Fx's plus use the Medley Feature to add additional RealTrack instruments onto one or more of the Mixer Channels and stack multiple backing vocals on another track
5)Chord entry (Also include a shot, hold and rest; a Push and Slash Chord; and 4 chords in a single measure)
6)Intro (use the automated Intro feature to add the intro after the body of the Chord Sheet has been completed)
7)Markers (Demo how to use Part markers but also select or create a Multistyle to change between two soloist instruments using Part Markers)
8)(Only) Mutes /Back to Normal at the bar for variation/arrangement purposes
9)Ending (manually select and complete chord entry of the two bar ending feature)
10)Export audio in various ways - Create a Performance Track/ Create a WAV/MP3/WMA stereo export/ create an email collaboration export/ Create a custom, specific length export for use with a video. Create and export and arrangement with a dozen instruments and more than 8 tracks mixed and balanced perfectly with effects added, all in a single render.

Charlie,
while you made many interesting points, here is the thing to consider. It is a fast moving world, and when average person sees a 20-30 minute video, they might (and probably will) stop short, and click something else, disappearing in the maze of internet.

I think a better approach would be to have a very basic tune made with embedded links in video: "Want to learn more->click here" and expand on specific subject, with items as you mention of "advantage of unmentioned features" That way a single, short "main" video can be made, and these "Want to learn more" items / links added at a later time.

I do not really agree with two items in your script proposal:
"1)Import a MIDI song file and convert it to a BIAB Style to create this demo song"
And #2 which is related.

While these are a valuable tools, I feel that starting with these will diminish value of BIAB in the eyes of viewer, thinking that it is designed for "importing and modifying", not creating.

Why not do it from scratch? Let it be a Pop/Jazz fusion remix or variation of "Old McDonald" G C G D7 G.... Something recognizable.

Otherwise a solid script idea.

M.

Thanks for posting your insight to developing a complete song. However, in your first post, a complete song evolved from one tutorial into three versions of increasing complexity resulting into becoming a series of tutorials. I liked the initial idea of a complete song that showcases BIAB's capabilities.

Note this forum is where users request video tutorial's produced by PG Music staff not individuals submitting their own versions. PG staff will be familiar with all of the different features offered in the feature list menu and I envision this "How To" Tutorial to flow in a similar manner to Kent's excellent video you reference in your initial post. It's quite fast and while the narrator focuses on specific aspects of song construction like intro's, ending's and bridge's, alternate methods and techniques are mentioned throughout. For example in Kent's video, although he demonstrates BIAB's automatic intro, he also mentions the task can be done manually. As a PG staff production, the tutorial I suggest can easily be completed in a 10-12 minute timeframe. I agree if you are unfamiliar with each of these features it could take an hour or more to work your way through the complete list because you would be learning as you go through each one. That would not be the case with a PG staff member giving "How To" steps throughout.

I piggy-backed off of Kent's method of selecting features that only need the "how to" instructions and not a deep theoretical explanation of why the process is done that way. For instance, Kent's demonstration of BIAB's creating an automatic, default intro only takes 16 seconds and the instructions are clear enough that no questions or comments that any user is confused or lost are in the video comments section. The features I selected to illustrate all perform in a similar manner of the user selecting the feature and mostly either follow simple prompts or select the default settings and BIAB does all of the processing.

< Why not do it from scratch? >
1. There are too many variables to each song section. For example, there can be the Auto intro that Kent used, a manual intro, the Melodist can create a Chord Chart and melody. A song can be started with loading a BIAB demo, Midi file, an Audio file, a loop, a chord progression and selected style or even a live recording. Starting with a midi file is simpler than using an audio file and the ACW though both will produce very similar results. Starting with a midi file will also automatically provide a song groove, or "in the style" feel of a commercially released recording resulting in achieving satisfactory style without having to spend a lot of time auditioning hundreds of styles. Using a midi style will work with every version and year version of the BIAB program. Using a midi file will also give an absolute beginner the opportunity to create a song of more complexity in the arrangement than would be expected with a beginners lack of experience with the program. My thought is a user will likely be more pleased and proud of producing a song in-the-style-of the Bee Gees "Staying Alive" than "Old McDonald".

< While these are a valuable tools, (midi files and converting a midi file into a Style) I feel that starting with these will diminish value of BIAB in the eyes of viewer, thinking that it is designed for "importing and modifying", not creating. >

Here's why I disagree.
1. Referencing Kent's tutorial, it has received more than 50,000 views and was created by him using the Melodist Feature of BIAB without any user input other than selecting and activating the feature and over the three year period since posting, has not generated a single comment or question. I don't see any evidence that how the tutorial is started will sway any users away especially if the PG staff narrator explains it's just one of many ways to start a song.
2. A Midi file is a starting point that allows users with little experience with BIAB to follow the step by step instructions and create a more complete, full and complex arrangement than most other methods BIAB accepts to start a song. I'm not talking about a cover of commercial song, rather, an in-the-style-of song similar to Notes Norton's third party midi styles. This is a beginners level task to do ( similar in every respect to Kent's Intro portion of his video). Anyone should be able to follow the steps to convert a midi file to a midi style. Replacing some or all of the midi patches with either Midi Super Tracks, Hi-Q Instruments, VST's or RealTracks are also beginner level tasks.
3. In a private message, someone suggested using a loop instead of a Midi file. In discussion, they agreed the operation is nearly exactly the same so there was no benefit to substitute a loop for the midi file. But because as with so many other tasks, like the multiple ways to do an intro, there is a benefit of using midi because it provides the opportunity to include converting a midi file into a midi style.
4. BIAB has hundreds of midi styles and many are MultiStyles. My system contains nearly 1,000 PG Staff pre-made MultiStyles. They take a Chord Chart SGU song to a completely different level and it's accomplished simply by selecting and inserting a MultiStyle from the StylePicker list. It's very basic to take any existing style and modify it into your own custom MultiStyle. An SGU file can have up to 24 MultiStyles inserted into the Chord Chart. Using MultiStyles can let a beginner program an arrangement using just BIAB that would take hours to duplicate in a DAW.

There's not been another tutorial I've seen that offers this depth and complexity while keeping the steps easy enough for someone with little to no familiarity with BIAB to create a song that sounds like it's been produced at an advanced level and showcases what BIAB is truly capable of producing.

Nothing requires advanced programming by the user. Advanced production is achieved by the BIAB program at mostly default settings or easy to understand prompts.

Just my thoughts to how to implement what I think is a great idea and proposal that I'm stumped to why there's not a ton of people giving support to the project so PG staff will be motivated to put together a 10 minute "How to" video to complete making a sophisticated song from intro to ending. A tutorial following this list or a similar one, offers insights to a variety of users. There's something for each, if they want to do accurate covers, accompaniment songs, movie soundtracks, practice songs or original compositions.

I think the soup to nut approach is the best approach with embedded links. 10 minutes max time if possible

I think it should definitely NOT be midi.
Start them with Real Tracks.
I feel Midi is a significantly greater effort to get under control and make work.
A single hiccup and you can be derailed for days trying to figure out your midi mapping or whatever.
Real tracks sound good from the start.

I like using the SAME song with 3 different levels (beg, inter, advanced).
if you don't understand level x you need to refer to x-1 where x is, of course, >1 and x<4

Old MacDonald is a good choice. Blue Tail Fly and Go Tell Aunt Rhody come to mind also.
Channeling Burl Ives as we speak.

I think the old stuff is dated. time for a fresh face.

great idea

YES!!! YES!!! This is the video I'm looking for!!! Did they make it yet, Charlie? Do you know where I can find it??

I can't begin to say how utterly aggravating it is to be searching for hours through all the styles looking for the sound I hear in my head and never finding anything I can sing my song to. And I gotta say, after thinking "maybe this one will do," and switching styles a few times, the program errors out and I get stuck with a previous style change even after clicking on Generate and Play. No matter how terrific that previous style was (pretty fond of that N.O. boogie piano; I wish it were the right style, but alas... no), it doesn't fit the mood of my song and I have to discard all the changes, shut BIAB down and come back the next day, still without the right style. Being able to bring in a MIDI of what I want and convert it to a style would save me HOURS of frustration, and to be honest, that's what I expected right out of the box, to be able to bring in MIDI songs. That's why I bought BIAB. And I need to know how to do every point in your script. Learning it piecemeal as I have been is beyond frustrating.

< Did they make it yet, Charlie? Do you know where I can find it?? >

Well yes, sort of...

This forum is for recommendations for someone on PG Music's staff to create tutorial videos. That hasn't happened yet. However, the majority of the tutorial I recommended that would result in a more complex and sophisticated song that I think most people expect from BIAB out of the box, I helped Mr. Henry Clark with a few rough spots he was having and he did complete a tutorial to import and use a MIDI File in a BIAB song.

Depending on the project, I use these steps to complete songs. Each step isn't always necessary for every song project and the steps I listed above were included specifically for a tutorial to cover various situations users may need to accomplish in a project.

I did two songs in 2018 and I shared the technique to complete a song using a MIDI file as I said with Forum Member, Henry Clark. Using the method, Mr. Henry Clark completed a tutorial that gives the step by step instructions to import a MIDI file that provides users a big head start in creating an authentic sounding BIAB production.

Mr. Henry's tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOHosQ2PYiY&t=361s

Example songs that I created in just a few minutes using the technique Mr. Henry's tutorial details.

Listen to the Music: The Doobie Brothers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFFCh7iJ74I

Cherish: The Association
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QETWcLqsAtE

Follow along with Mr. Henry's tutorial and you should be good to go. One difference to be aware of if you have Windows 2021 version of BIAB is Utility Tracks are included with the newest version of BIAB and importing a MIDI File will separate the MIDI Channels so you no longer should have to move the different MIDI Channel patches as he describes in the tutorial. I have not taken the opportunity to create an imported MIDI file song with 2021 yet but if you have any issues, just let us know here in the Forum and you should get squared away quickly.

Charlie/ALL.
question.
i'm very leery of getting midi files from the net.
for security reasons.
where do you get your midi files from for popular oldie songs that are reputable/free ?
for example awhile back i wanted to practice my singing with the classic andy williams hit "cant get used to losing you". even though i'm a rocker at heart i like to try crooning songs occasionally to practice my singing in different genres.
a fantastic bass line on this song. actually its all fantastic instrumentation/chord structure etc etc imho on this song. but couldnt find a midi.

btw charlie. great job on cherish.

best
oldmuso.

< where do you get your midi files from for popular oldie songs that are reputable/free? >

Last count of MIDI Files I have stored on disk a couple of years ago was just shy of 8,000. There are duplicate songs and multiple versions of various songs but that's the total number of files. Many have obscure titles that don't provide a clue to the song name or artist.

I primarily received them from three local music stores and also some are custom made recordings done by two professional musician friends on their keyboards. The music stores use to give flash drives with Midi Files with the purchase of a new keyboard. All the MIDI files I have have been received free of charge.

Mr. Henry Clark has shared some safe, dependable and high quality commercial web sites in his tutorials but I don't recall the site at the moment.

< great job on cherish. >

Thank you very much. It's one of my all time favorite songs and I wish I'd written it...

Thank you, Charlie. I feel pretty sheepish to tell you I've already watched it twice and it just didn't "take" for me. I'll try it again tonight now that I'm more familiar with BIAB. Thanks for telling me I don't have to worry about getting things on the proper channels.

One of the differences is that your songs--and they sound wonderful!--and Henry's were MIDI files of professionally recorded full songs. I want to bring in a MIDI file of a single instrument (which is actually exported from a notation program; just haven't figured out the BIAB notation program yet) and integrate it into a song with a style already chosen (and after that I need to sing and bring in the audio files). This mountain I'm climbing, it's awfully daunting. I feel like I started at the base, got a little way up, and slid back down in a landslide.

Thank you for your help. I truly appreciate it.

Don't feel sheepish about sliding down a slippery slope because that's it exactly, slippery. Everyone will slide back down on a slippery slope. Mr. Henry and I used MIDI files of commercial recordings because they are familiar to a wide audience and are easily recognizable as authentic, accurate and correct sounding. The MIDI content contained in the files regardless where or how it originates is not relevant. BIAB will process the MIDI data the same.

I have also used many custom MIDI files created by either of two local professional keyboard players that range from complete productions of a commercial release recording for which there's not a commercial available MIDI song file to be purchased, to individual backing instruments playing specific parts of a song and even only several measures of a specific riff. Your MIDI file composed of a single instrument will be identified, imported and processed the same as a commercially produced retail product in regards to how it will operate within the BIAB program.

Using readily available complete MIDI files simply makes the process easier and allows you to concentrate most of your focus on the song and applying BIAB techniques and processes. The familiarity and groove of the song keeps you from worrying about the sound. The next step, (another video by Henry Clark) expands the process from copying a song to covering a song by using styles and arrangement so the song no longer sounds exact and correct but is modified by you to be your own personal interpretation of a song you're familiar with. The final step of this method prepares you to create your own custom song from scratch using the tools you learned and employed to create the first two steps.

The barriers you face and the processes you don't grasp are the same issues others will have. Overcoming your obstacles will help others overcome theirs. I suggest you use Mr. Henry's video as a common denominator to a question/answer discussion in this thread where you can direct your question relative to the spot in the video you're having problems getting to work or understand and have the issue discussed here on the forum and once that point is resolved, move on to the next point in the video that you're struggling with. In the end, you and others that follow along will have compiled a complete song from beginning to end learning BIAB arranging and composing techniques along the way.

Ha!! I finally found it!!! You import a MIDI file by dragging it to BIAB anywhere!!!! I did it!! I brought in a guitar part and a bass part and when the dialogue box gave me the option, I put them on Utility Tracks 1 and 2!!

Now my problems are, how do I get the automatic label out of the track description--it put what I typed in parenthesis so at least it's there, but sheesh, those tracks are not pianos--and how do I access all my MIDI patches? The GM patches won't populate at all. There must be some weird programming in the MIDI file.

I've discovered that the dialogue boxes for importing files allow you to specify the lead in count, so now I know that I don't have to worry about that when I bring in an audio file. I need three of them and since two are for sporadic background harmonies, I think I'll take your example, Charlie, and make short recordings that I'll put in specific bars.

Slippery slope sure is right. It's taken me weeks--WEEKS--to finally understand this simple thing.

Glad things are starting to work out for you.

< Now my problems are, how do I get the automatic label out of the track description >

I don't think that part of the description can be deleted. I've not found a way to remove the label either.

I'm looking forward to hear you publish something on here soon. Let us know if you have any issues we can help you along with.

Thanks!! I appreciate all the help everyone is giving me. Really makes a difference.

Here's a video using BIAB to demonstrate making a complete song from intro to end that some may find useful. It's straightforward step by step instructions of inputting a song from scratch while including a few additional enhancements to the arrangement along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=GMCotP3GxSs&feature=emb_logo

Charlie,
useful, but real voice and more detailed annotations would be better.
Also, I feel, this should have been done in minimalistic view GUI.

I have started a topic in another section, that seemed have drowned without a real answer.... And if the replies it did receive are true, then it is surprisingly strange. I am talking about this:
https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=657764#Post657764

So.... was thinking about this and I believe a full song SGU file, showcasing general and more advanced techniques is ABSOLUTELY a must. I would have learned stuff I know now (and I do not know enough as of yet ) in about 1/2 the time, IF we had such song file and accompanying video walkthrough explaining how to get to that point. I also believe this should be done by someone at PG who knows better how to get to desired results faster and more effectively using available tools / features.

< ...real voice and more detailed annotations would be better.>

I agree.

< ...this should have been done in minimalistic view GUI. >

I agree but I noted that while the video was produced in 2019, the version of BIAB used is 2016. I believe the GUI upgrade was done in 2018.

I followed the thread you linked to and was hoping for more interest and participation than its received. In fact, my brother Jim and I had quite an animated and long discussion about it. I considered commenting and prepared an SGU file, screen shots and a Master Render MP3 that I emailed to him for his input before I posted it for discussion. We 'talked' just over 2.5 hours. No kidding. We disagreed whether a full song SGU file should showcase song structure, intros, endings, shots, rests, holds and such or tools/features techniques.

Jim was convinced it was song structure based on the examples you listed in the post and my SGU was all Technique. Accordingly, the techniques were all BIAB programming results that were generated by me doing nothing more than selecting feature commands.

I used the default Style that loads when BIAB opens - ZZJAZZ.STY and added a RealTrack Soloist instrument plus added one additional feature, BIAB automatically created a very complex arrangement that everyone I can think of would have to generate multiple tracks to export to a DAW to duplicate it. BIAB completed the task in a single render and it took about a minute for me to 'program' the song and it took BIAB 0.38 seconds to render the song. It was only a 4 bar chord Sheet with the default 3 choruses. I pointed out 10 distinct programming results to Jim that BIAB did in the background during the generation which is really quite amazing I think. Things like cross fades, fade outs and smooth transitions and much more.

Regarding demo songs you speak of in the other post. That's a great idea too. Most all I've learned about BIAB programming techniques come from studying demos.

I agree with you that PG Staff are the best choice to prepare a full song video showcasing available tools and features in both standard fashion and unique ways as welll.

Plus One from me.