PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box VST and Pro Tools/AAX DAW Plugin (Windows) If SFZ Can Do It So Can BBPlugin

This is sourcing 5 different wma files at the same time.
Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120.sfz

Watch Video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/23mxfimdgf3ex62/RT-Strumming-SFZ-WMA-2.mp4?dl=0

With
hint_ram_based=0

I get glitches in some wma and mp3 but wav flac and ogg are ok

with
hint_ram_based=1

they all play fine

Same as Sforzando has this option you can have this option in the BBPlugin as each instrument is not sourcing that many different wav's.
All this will work so much better than the crappy waiting time as it is now.
This could all be done right now.
You have a golden opportunity to bring about profound change.
The BBPlugin don't need to wait for wav files to be rendered for it !
It just reads the original WAV Instructions and plays instantly same as Sforzando, if an export is needed it just renders to wav.
Drop the sfz into:
bb\RealTracks\Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120
then drag into Sforzando
you can try it with wav flac ogg (Reaper has a Batch converter)
in the sfz just rename all the
sample=AG1141.wma
in a text editor to the file type you are using.

Right Click Save Link/Target As
Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 - wma.sfz
Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 - ram wma.sfz

the
offset=705600
end=1058400
and
loop_start=705600
loop_end=1058400

is just the sample position in the RT file to loop
in Reaper you can right click on the clock and set it to Samples
make sure the project is set to 44100.

This will also work for Live Arranger !

Did Anyone Try This On Their System ?

You lost me at

Drop the sfz into Notepad and you will see:

<global>


<control>
hint_ram_based=0

<group>


So it will load the required wma files into ram if:
hint_ram_based=1

it will play the files direct if:
hint_ram_based=0

there are 2 sfz, one will play from ram and one will play from hard drive.

This is what the BBPlugin can do same as Sforzando.
It reads to WAV Instructions BBoutput.txt file,
this has all the WAV Instructions for all tracks.

All the items in the Reaper tracks are the section of the RT source file wav/wma
so the first section is in BS1683.WAV/WMA the -2 is pitch shift


start in source file is 0:28.037 and 4 bars long
in samples:
start 1234800
end 1587600

so to play that section in Sforzando

<region>
sample=BS1683.wma
offset=1234800
end=1587600

Zoom++

When you try it, does Sforzando take ages to render to wav before it plays or does it just play instantly when you hit a key ???

It's not as hard as this is it ?

Now this is playing a RealTrack and RealDrums but I don't have to wait for any wavs to render it just plays instantly.
I can render the track to a wav if I want to send it to a friend.

Watch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gk1xggd2z8n2oqx/Sforzando-Drums-Guitar.mp4?dl=0

Musocity,

This response is a continuation of a discussion started +++ in this post +++.

I downloaded both video files and I have viewed both videos multiple times. Interesting viewing and I encourage everyone to take a look at the videos.

One video demonstrates one instance of Sforzando playing sections of a RealTrack audio file.

The second video demonstrates two instances of Sforzando with one playing sections of a RealDrum audio file and the second playing sections of a RealTrack audio file.

The second video was interesting because the two instances played in sync and the RealDrums playback was for both regular playing and fills.

Some DAW, Reaper perhaps, hosts Sforzando in both videos.

You state the videos demonstrate it is faster for the plugin to construct RealTracks and RealDrums in real time versus the present method.

While likely true, I believe your method doesn't utilizes all the resources the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program offers. I'm reasonably sure the main BiaB program uses algorithms and loads from multiple audio files contained to add variety during RealTrack and RealDrum track construction.

That's why the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program is fast and everyone uses it and why the BBPlugin is so slow and not many use it because they need to wait for the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program in the background to render down to wav for the BBPlugin.
If the BBPlugin works like Sforzando when you click "Generate" it will generate and play instantly.


>>>These are the ones to try (as above) if you have Sforzando installed (maybe not many users have installed Sforzando that comes with Biab ??)
If you have it installed you will get the Sforzando VST in Biab or you can run the Standalone
C:\Program Files\Plogue\sforzando\sforzando.exe

Right Click Save Link/Target As

Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 - ram wma.sfz
CountryEven8_120_Style - ram wma.sfz

Copy the sfz into:
bb\RealTracks\Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120
and
bb\Drums\CountryEven8

then drag the sfz into Sforzando and press the keys.
You should get instant playing of RealDrums and RealTracks from different files and sections.

Musocity,

I corrected the quoted sentence in my previous post. I'm glad you understood my meaning even though I left out a word.

For the plugin to generate RealTrack and RealDrum tracks the plugin requires both access to the RealTrack and RealDrum folders and the intelligence needed to assemble the tracks in the creative ways the main BiaB program can.

I assume the plugin already has folder access since the plugin has folder settings. However I have strong doubts PG Music will provide the plugin with the intelligence needed to assemble the tracks in the creative ways the main BiaB program can. PG Music has previously stated the plugin will not be full featured.

Thanks Jim. Yes the BBPlugin eventually will have all the intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs, it won't be a Biab in the Plugin with 5 million features if users need that then they can use the ReWire VST.
For now the BBPlugin can call on bbw4 to give the text track data as the pic below shows the BBoutput.txt track data, this is saved in SavedTracks when you do multiriffs in the BBPlugin. So rather than waiting all that time for bbw4 to render the tracks to wavs it will just render txt with the WAV Instructions instantly and playback instantly.
Those WAV Instructions in the pic are the same as in the sfz if you drop the sfz into a Notepad you will see.
So in the saved tracks folders you will have just text tracks data and midi data and not a whole lot of wavs that take ages to render unnecessarily.
You seem to be able to get your head around this, I hope others can also.

musocity(bob)

I follow your posts in the bb forum and the reaper forum and i like to try and implement your ideas.

I have used some of your ideas with no problem but i am really struggling with the sfz output txt thing.

I know you have posted about this subject several times but i still dont understand how to do it(Im penny from the big bang theory video you posted)

you did say "just ask"in one of your posts.

could you walk me through from the very beginning(in txt format)
from the point of having no programs open.

ie...which program should i have open,reaper,bb main,bb plugin,sforzo.

thanks for your patience,time and trouble.

1. Right Click Save Link/Target As
Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120 - ram wma.sfz
CountryEven8_120_Style - ram wma.sfz

2. Copy the downloaded guitar sfz file into the folder:
C:\bb\RealTracks\Guitar, 12-String Acoustic, Strumming Ev 120
and the drums sfz into the folder:
C:\bb\Drums\CountryEven8
if they are on another drive then copy there.

3. If you have Sforzando installed you will get the Sforzando VST in Biab that you can load into an empty track,
or you can run the Sforzando Standalone
C:\Program Files\Plogue\sforzando\sforzando.exe

4. Drag the guitar sfz in the realtracks folder into Sforzando and press the keys.
You should get instant playing of RealTracks from different wma files and sections.

5. Drag the drums sfz in the drums folder into another instance of Sforzando and press the key.
You should get instant playing of the RealDrums wma file.

Thanks for helping out.

I disagree. PG Music previously stated the plugin will never have all the features present in the main Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) program. Plugin users have been unable to offer PG Music any guidance about what main program features are desired because everyone uses different features in the main program. Whatever features are left out there will be suggestions to add them because someone likely uses the missing feature(s).

What happens if a user does not do multiriffs in the plugin? What happens when a user opens a SGU/MGU file? As I understand the plugin there has to be an initial track generation.

" intelligence within it to do all the functions it needs "
That means the Generate functions not all the other million and one features and functions, we are trying to simplify it not make it more complex. I can generate up RealDrums directly in Reaper so that can be done in the Plugin easy enough, then you just need the other generate functions. Biab has a very steep learning curve, you don't want to put that onto new DAW only users and scare them away, we have seen enough of that going on, and that hurts me to see that.

The whole idea of the Plugin was to be able to add extra instrument tracks to a recorded DAW session. It was not to give a DAW auto accompaniment, music lessons and practice. It was to attract NEW DAW only users not old Biab users that just want to get the Biab track into a DAW, they can just drag n drop.
To have the 5 million features as I said would be easy to use ReWireVST or make a sync VST for Biab.
The future will be/has to be the C++ BBPlugin/Standalone this gets away from the Delphi Biab RealBand.
Let Biab be for the old and current users but let the BBPlugin be for Professional/DAW/Studio users not old Biab users with old hardware.
LOOK AT EZDRUMMER 3 SUPERIOR DRUMMER 3 that don't scare or frustrate users !!! EZ=EASY
What I'm showing is how to make BBPlugin just wonderfully easy and frustration free. When I say it could be the Industry Standard Goto I mean that, I don't say that lightly.

All this that I have been posting with Sforzando can be put into a separate BBPlugin Standalone that can be used for a Live Arranger you see how fast you can play chord sections from one to the other in Sforzando, this proves it can be done.
You did try those sfz didn't you ????

You are totally limiting the BBPlugin potential by making it for old users that just want the Biab tracks in their DAW that they now have in Biab main app, making a mirror image of the main app in a plugin is pointless.
The BBPlugin working how I showed could open a frozen SGU directly in the BBPlugin with identical layout and sections and read the frozen section data in an SGU/MGU and instantly play that, or it can get bbw4 to open the frozen SGU/MGU track data and render that direct to the SavedTracks folder as text and midi data (NO WAVs).
BBW4 can give the BBPlugin track data for every single track or multiriffs same as it does now but only for multiriffs in the BBoutput.txt.
You can have 24 frozen tracks in the main Biab SGU and the BBPlugin could call on bbw4 to open that and write the text and midi data for all tracks to the SavedTracks folder and the BBPlugin will play instantly identical to Biab main app, not waiting 10 hours for 24 tracks to render.
This way old Biab users don't need all the functions as they can work in Biab > Save frozen SGU >>> BBPlugin will instantly open that frozen SGU and you will have the identical song playing instantly.
Got to change something else ? just make the change in Biab main app and Save again frozen and open again in the BBPlugin, not waiting hours to re-render changes you will get a clone of the Biab current song state instantly.
See all the trouble I went to with Biab Track Injector for Reaper, that was to show how it could be done to get tracks instantly into Reaper without rendering or re-rendering, if you don't like a section you go to Biab change that section and BANG ! it's in Reaper instantly.

Thanks for asking and taking an interest, I don't mine explaining it all to anyone that can't get their head around it, I want to get you guys there also.

Also with the BBPlugin working this way with elastique it will fit the tracks to any varying decimal tempo map.
If old users create their song up in a constant tempo Biab session it will instantly transfer and fit the varying decimal tempo map in their DAW.
You could also have an option to open a frozen SGU and pic the tracks you want to import.

But, as I mentioned earlier, forum users were unable to agree on what functions the plugin needs. I suspect many current Band-in-a-Box users have not given much thought to what functions they would expect the plugin to perform.



That is an apples to oranges comparison between your Reaper script and plugin code. There is no way a non-coder like myself can judge how easy it is to modify the plugin code so the plugin can generate up RealDrums. I don't understand how that statement is relevant to the conversation.

Agree but let's change the statement just a little bit; how's this:

Why did I change your statement from "was" to "should be"? Because presently a user can not save a Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) SGU or MGU file and know for sure the file will work properly in the plugin. Back to the first part of this discussion, certain main BiaB program functions that are saved in a SGU or MGU file do not work in the plugin.

My highest priority is for the plugin to utilize ALL the main program functions that can be stored in a SGU or MGU file.

For example the main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store MultiStyles, can the plugin reconstruct them? The main BiaB program SGU or MGU file can store F5 Bar Settings, can the plugin implement those settings?

I agree but what producer is going to work on a SGU or MGU file in the main BiaB program only to find the work does not correctly transfer?

No! It's not an either or situation and it never should be. The main BiaB program is where an audio producer should start the song creation and then use the plugin to review alternate instrumentation and riffs.

While that is a nice idea there is no sign PG Music is interested in competing with arranger keyboards. Sometimes when you are a small, family owned business you choose not to compete with giants of the industry.

Why is wanting the plugin to accurately recreate the tracks in a main BiaB program SGU or MGU file pointless? How does that limit the plugin potential? Don't you believe the plugin should accurately playback a SGU or MGU file?

But the frozen tracks were created in the main BiaB program. You just proved my point that an audio producer likely will use both the main BiaB program and the plugin. Earlier you said leave the main BiaB program for the old folks and let the DAW users have the plugin. I just can't envision up and coming audio producers getting SGU or MGU files from us old folks. Just a little joke here.

Great conversation. It's nice to exchange thoughts and look at different points of view.