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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Elliott,
For pitching a demo to a publisher the rules are very, very simple.
Keep it as simple as you can.
A two track acoustic and vocal is sometimes all that is needed.
They don't want to hear your production, just the song. They will produce it in their heads. Over-produced demos are dangerous territory.
Plan B is to go into a studio and come out sounding exactly like Morgan Wallen but that is 5 grand.
If you can't do that it is safer to have a perfect sounding guitar (or piano) and a pro vocal.
And a song that gives everyone goosebumps or makes them say "hot damn."
They can take it from there.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2015
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Here are some ideas from a producer worth looking at. This article is about what producers must deal with when listening to demos. https://blog.discmakers.com/2015/07/9-things-not-to-do-with-your-next-song-demo/Several things got my attention and resonated with me. 1. Choose a pro singer for your demo. Unless you’re a real vocalist, don’t sing it yourself to save money. 2. Good songs with average lyrics don't normally get picked up. You can't sell "average." This highly competitive business requires business skills and a good bit of being at the right place with the right stuff at the right time. What David Snyder said is dead on. You can go to a high-quality studio, spend thousands, and "maybe" get the best "demo" possible. The issue is that song will most likely end up where hundreds of thousands of other demo songs end up. So risk-taking needs to be tempered with good business judgment. Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Songwriting
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
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So, what is the difference between a publisher and a distributor?
I thought they are the same. I assume you don't need to make a demo. You can just make a completed song, upload to a distributor, it will be published on all platforms, done.
Also, is Songtradr anything special? Is it better than other mainstream distributors such as CD Baby, DistroKid, TuneCore, etc?
explains what a publisher is and does https://www.liveabout.com/music-distribution-defined-2460499 explains music distribution You ask in a reply if registering with ASCAP was triple dipping. No it's not. PROs collect your performance royalties and pay you for them. SOCAN in Canada does basically the same thing.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,926
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For pitching a demo to a publisher the rules are very, very simple.
Keep it as simple as you can.
A two track acoustic and vocal is sometimes all that is needed.
They don't want to hear your production, just the song. They will produce it in their heads. Over-produced demos are dangerous territory.
This is not necessarily true. There are no rules for this except one.... It needs to be extremely well recorded. At a songwriters seminar in LA several years ago, I had the opportunity to set in on a hit song writer talking about this very topic. Should you submit simple or fully demoed songs? I don't know what percentage of songs arrive as full band demos. Jason Blume did however play several demos for songs that were on the radio at the time. One was a pop song and one was a country song. Both were big radio songs. Aside from the singer obviously being different, those demos were full bands, complete with the fills and solos, and most importantly, completely radio ready. Played back to back it was hard to tell the difference between them. The demo version could easily have been on the radio but it wasn't the big artist singing. Jason's comments were to the effect that you should give them the full idea you have in your head. They can decide if they want to follow that or do a different arrangement. In both cases, the artist essentially covered the demo almost exactly note for note. If you send a piano or guitar and vocal only demo, they have a lot of work to do to make the song ready for the artist who may or may not hear the possibilities of the song. It's always your option to send a pared down demo and I'm absolutely sure hundreds of songs have been recorded by artists from a simple piano vocal demo. You should always spell it out for them if you are capable. Edit to add: Regardless of what demo method you choose, your song has to be great. A so-so song with a top quality demo will still be a so-so song. And in the same way, a great song with chart potential will be ruined by a singer who's singing out of tune sounding like they were recorded in a bedroom with a cheap mic or an out of tune guitar.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/16/23 01:28 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2014
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Dear Elliott,
God knows I tried, my brother.
But I have decided the ignore button is going to become a more and more useful tool for some of these "specialty forums" as time goes by. (Not speaking of you, Elliott but of certain characters who seem to argue with everything I say even if I say the sky is blue.)
I am glad Roger Brown came in and made gave solid insights because he has numerous hits. You want to listen to him.
To reiterate: I have been told to my face by numerous pros in Nashville that less is more. I can safely assure you that if Roger Brown is using BIAB for pro pitches (as he clearly says he is), he is NOT throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. Again, listen to who has the hits. He and others use BIAB for demos.
You can do the same. Just keep it simple, and make sure it is a great song with a simple, professional bed, and a strong vocal. (You CAN do this with BIAB and a bedroom studio. That is the whole point here. It's why people buy and use BIAB. Like Roger. Who has hits and an active career. And co-writers with hits as well.)
They do NOT want to hear your idea of a production unless it is on the level with a radio production, and people who write 100 songs a year do not do that.
So, that is all I can say, and I know I am right on these points:
1.) Make it a great song.
2.) Give people goosebumps or make them say hot damn, and have a solid, simple demo that puts the focus on the SONG and the lyrics, and NOT the production. That is a turn-off and a distraction.
That being said, I am going to bow out now, and probably stay away from these discussions off the showcase forum.
But this may be enough. Just do these things and you will be successful. Others have been successful doing it.
And by the way, what's the color of the black asphalt on the road?
It's black.
Except where it is painted.
* Bonus tip: If your "pro" demo sounds like the worst song on an Alabama album from 1972, it's probably not going to work. That is why the two track acoustic and vocal is often a safer route.
Peace out and happy writing everyone.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,472
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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After 50 years, the only rule I know is that you have no idea what a producer is going to hear in your demo.
Some of the biggest hits have had gawdawful demos. You listen, knowing the hit and wonder how anyone heard that in there. Those, however, are the exception, not the rule.
For the most part, David’s advice is spot on. The demo must showcase the SONG, not your arranging skills, not the vocalist delivering it or anything that distracts.
As for engaging a “pro singer”, it depends on the singer. There are a few who specialize in demos and when you’ve heard enough, you know who they are even if you don’t know their names. In the ‘70s and ‘80s, it seemed like Livingston Taylor (Berklee prof and brother of James) sang over half of all the demos I heard. His voice sounds close to his brother but lacks the distinct personality. This lets the producer concentrate on the song.
Back to the OP, BIAB is very well suited for demos. I’ve used it for a few clients. There are hundreds of styles that don’t call attention to the arrangement if used with a bit of restraint. Unless there’s an instrumental as well as a vocal hook, skip the long introduction.
I don’t use it on my own demos but it’s because I’m too lazy to audition styles till I find what I like. If guitar, I have some tools that I use. For piano, when I was a Voice major, 50+ years ago, I met a Piano Performance major and a few years later we were married. I tell her what I need or write it out and she plays the way I want to hear it.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
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Actually... I think we're all pretty much on the same page. We all agree on the following. First.... The song has to be well written. Second.... The demo should be of the highest audio quality possible. Third.... A demo is for showcasing the song and is not the time or place for verse long instrumental solos. Fourthly.... If it works in conveying the song and gets picked up for a cut..... It doesn't matter whether it was a simple piano/vocal or a full band on the demo. This is essentially what I was saying about doing a bedroom quality demo. Some of the biggest hits have had gawdawful demos. You listen, knowing the hit and wonder how anyone heard that in there. Those, however, are the exception, not the rule.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/17/23 01:15 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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