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This is another clip I watched. Bartek Krzemiński is incredibly talented. I can hear Bob James in some of his deliveries. Quite refreshing. And I do note that these are referenced as 'Real Styles', actual recordings of live artists.
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It beats midi but it's way out of my price bracket, all I can afford is a secondhand DigiTech Trio from eBay AU$250 https://digitech.com/dp/trio-plus/I remember it used the Biab tracks.
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Anything is possible...
But think for a minute what I mentioned earlier in this post.
If direct read will be possible in near future, it is only 1/3 of equation. The strongest point of RTs are to be able to produce variation/generation. To make style for arranger sound the "best" (which is also subjective), it would have to be modified significantly to sound identical with Customer "A" and Customer "B". Meaning, all the parts would have to be generated in advanced and the better ones selected and mapped to corresponding arranger section(s), but at the same time they should be user editable as far as particular section / instrument regeneration. So not only it would be possible to regenerate particular "included" instrument track, but to substitute it with RT from another style. And the last 1/3 of equation is very specific interface aimed for live playing.
I am not trying to be a thread buster, I actually think it's a great idea and I support it 100%, but it would require different thinking and muscle power.
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It beats midi but it's way out of my price bracket, all I can afford is a secondhand DigiTech Trio from eBay AU$250 https://digitech.com/dp/trio-plus/I remember it used the Biab tracks. Excellent choice! I have had it since its release in 2017, I have never been disappointed, this tool is absolutely...nice!
Biab Audiophile 2024 11.14 Win
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Actually are not all keyboard arrangers midi? Just asking
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Actually are not all keyboard arrangers midi? Just asking Not according to the presenter. He states that the Ketron Event uses recordings of real musicians, (essentially the same as RealTracks.) The text reads: " Ketron EVENT is a REAL ARRANGER because it has live musicians on board."
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Not according to the presenter. He states that the Ketron Event uses recordings of real musicians, (essentially the same as RealTracks.)
The text reads: " Ketron EVENT is a REAL ARRANGER because it has live musicians on board." If Ketron is using RTs then great. But if they are not using RTs then that means they are using their own proprietary software. If Ketron is doing that then other software companies will probably do it or license Ketron's technology. If a software company develops a program similar to BiaB but with a modern interface, having all time signature, etc, etc, then our beloved PGM may be in trouble. YMMV
Have you ever noticed there are no lines to a bathroom at a water park?
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From my understanding they use slices / short loops / chords - of performances "mapped to midi" as they put it. Almost like a big rompler. Which is not a bad thing if it sounds better than MIDI only arranger.
PGM can definitely accept this challenge, if reading from disk will be successful. But again, styles for this kind of usage would have to be adjusted significantly.
I guess we will find out soon on direct read from disk.
P.S. Mario, it can be made as a skin / view of the plugin & standalone plugin if they will go that route in the future.
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As I was typing this, a newsletter email from Yamaha came... Genos2 is out, and it's on sale for only $5.699 
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Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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PG can work all the musical technicality out, if it can be done with their keyboard it can be done with the software. Event Manual Ketron Event English.pdf EDIT: Storage 240 GB internal SSD disk (80 GB reserved for System). Optional external SD Card (up to 512 GB). ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=25719&filename=Ketron-1.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=25720&filename=Ketron-2.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=25721&filename=Ketron-3.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=25722&filename=Ketron-4.png)
Last edited by musocity; 11/16/23 12:51 AM.
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It's probably worth mention in case people haven't seen it, but there's also the Event X module version. No keyboard, controlled from one's existing MIDI keyboard. Like the Ketron SD90 but with real recordings rather than a MIDI sample player. That said, the SD90 is still very good and 2/3 the price of the Event X.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 11/16/23 04:42 AM. Reason: typo
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Was just looking at the Yamaha Genos 2, it says it has a whopping 800 styles, and a level adjust to adjust the room mics recorded with the drums, up or down. Now imagine if Biab had 800 styles and Stems with adjustable room mics ! LOL I remember years ago suggesting a hardware version of Biab with LCD screen. Biab Hardware Version See the Ketron: Storage 240 GB internal SSD disk (80 GB reserved for System) that could be be just using a minimal Linux for the system ?
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OK so PG does this. What do you use to control it? As a keyboard player I know what keyboard controllers cost and a pro level one is over $500 and up and they're not set up for arranger functions, they're set up for EDM/HipHop type stuff. A Yamaha Genos is around $6,000. There are way more guitarists here than keyboard players so you would need a midi guitar controller. They ain't cheap either.
That still doesn't answer my point about the whole thrust of PG's marketing which is the feel of a live does the bass player or any other player play the same part each time? No. Real players change things up the next time they play that song. OTH yes, there are BIAB users who like to freeze tracks and that's good enough for them, they don't mind static tracks For that group, an arranger function could work but still, what do you control it with?
My guess is this isn't happening but I'm not against it, I'm just having a hard time visualizing how it would work.
Last edited by jazzmammal; 11/22/23 07:55 PM.
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It's already been done, did you try the Live Region Player ? Is it playing the same thing each time ? Did you ever use conductor in Biab ? ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=25792&filename=Live-Arranger-keyboard-Input.png)
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Your other name isn't Pipeline is it? Haha. We're not talking third party workarounds here. I'm familiar with Conductor, its clunky in a live setting with a vocalist.
Last edited by jazzmammal; 11/22/23 08:07 PM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Pipeline as well as Solidrock Haha Conductor is clunky it only used to work with midi and won't work with RealTracks but Reaper has seamless transitions playing RealTrack source files wma or wav (Smooth Seek), this shows Biab could also be made to Conduct RealTracks smoothly with your keyboard. We are not talking about third party workarounds we are talking it all being done with the BBPlugin Standalone playing source files direct, I have shown it done and working in Reaper this says that it's certainly doable for PG. So many things I have shown working years ago come to fruition in PG products.............eventually.
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A Yamaha Genos is around $6,000. The new Genos2 is a similar price and both sounds and appears spectacular.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
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Does the Genos2 have Real tracks or just Real drums ?
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I believe that we're not actually discussing what BiaB could do now, but what BiaB could deliver in the future.
A future development with 'Arranger' capabilities would surely include the ability to perform different RealTrack or MIDI performances each time. I doubt that they would need to be static repetitions. In fact, the program does that already.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Generate Lyrics for your Band-in-a-Box songs with LyricLab!
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Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6 & 7, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, et bien plus encore!
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Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
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Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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