PG Music Home Forums User-to-User Post your own Tips and Tricks here TIPS FOR SOMEONE NEW TO MUSIC PRODUCTION LOOKING TO BUY A PC OR USE AN EXISTING PC.

A FEW TIPS FOR PURCHASING A PC FOR MUSIC PRODUCTION OR USEING AN EXISTING PC..

(note…instead of commenting in this thread re this topic please…if ive missed anything…
which is easy to do as it's a complex topic…please pm me…and i will post your added tips and attribute them to you…)
these tips apply to a windows pc.

Why the need for this guide ?? simple answer is ive seen too many people over the years make incorrect decisions re this topic and tried to help as many as I could.
This guide is particularly for someone new to music production on a pc ... .and ive tried as much as possible to provide one central reference because so much of this info is scattered around the net. Also by having this series of tips, when a new person encounters problems , this topic might be useful for the person and thus maybe save lots of time/posts helping the person.

Here's the tips.

1..DPC LATENCY.
please read this…

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/

in summary its important imho to purchase a pc that has low microsecond count in itself without attaching anything to it. the lower the better imho.
One reason people encounter problems is high dpc count.
For example, a common mistake is to use any old pc.
before using any pc i would urge the reader to run the utility mentioned in the article above..
ie latency monitor. …and really understand the topic of dpc latency by googling.

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

The purpose of latency mon is to assess the suitability of a pc for audio/music production.
but how to test prior to purchase ? can be an issue.
answer…i only deal with people that either let me run latency mon prior to purchase
or have a 30 day no questions asked return policy which is plenty of time to test.

2..ORGANISATIONS THAT TEST PC LATENCY.

I came across this site awhile back that tests dpc of lots and lots of popular pc's.
thus saving you the hassle.
it's highly useful and has a table of microsecond latencies ranked from highest to lowest..

https://www.notebookcheck.net/DPC-Latency-Ranking-Which-laptops-and-Windows-tablets-offer-the-lowest-latency.504376.0.html

also an interesting but looong thread......re low latency

https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/618474-audio-interface-low-latency-performance-data-base.html


irrespective of the route you go, i would advise getting a 30 day no questions asked return for any pc which gives you adequate time to test the pc with your chosen sound interface and preferably also a decent warranty eg a year.

3..MORE WAYS TO TEST A PC.
you want a pc that's highly responsive to user commands.
There are various indicators that you might have problems with a pc.
for example maybe it comes with bloatware….

an interesting article …(or google what is bloatware ?)

https://www.mcafee.com/blogs/tips-tricks/what-is-bloatware-and-how-can-it-impact-security/

In summary, various apps running on your pc and their pc resource usage can impact the primary task of music production and availability of resources for such.

Another clue is…how long does a pc take to boot into windows from cold ?
Some pc's take a loooong time. Ideally you want a fast boot time.
For example, PCs properly set up/acquired can boot into windows in just a few seconds.
so in looking at a pc to buy try and see if you can test how long it takes to boot from cold..
note…NOT from sleep mode but from when it's completely shut off.

There are various other ways to test the suitability of a pc…
..how fast do apps take to load after clicking on an icon ?
on my pc for example my music apps max just take a few secs.
..how fluid is moving between various screens ?
..if you already are a pg user, and it's just a basic indicator, but one more indicator in looking at suitability of a pc for music production is in pg's realband menus action>>test audio performance. This will report a track number. in my case over 200 tracks.

just google for more info on testing a pc….there are various utilities on the net.
also read up the link between single thread and multi thread performance and multi cores viz music production. There are often many debates about such.
one will find the speedier the processor the higher the measured thread counts…..which is good...but...one has to mitigate this with power consumption.
see the following site that tests processor performance…its very useful prior to pc purchase…

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/

BUT a caution…notice the power consumption of the processor you're interested in.i didnt choose myself the fastest processor due to not only my budget but also how quickly tech changes. also i wanted a pc that ran quiete for music production.
otherwise i have to put it in another room….fan noise can be an issue…
although there are products to mitigate this.

4..ASSESS YOUR NEEDS PRIOR TO PC PURCHASE.

a constant issue ive come across over the years is someone not assessing their needs
prior to purchasing re track and plug in counts.
i have modest needs in this area and tend to use less than 40 tracks and a sprinkling of plug ins
each having low pc resource usage.
but the big mistake ive seen people make over the years is using a pc that isnt capable of meeting their needs. ie they try to run a slew of tracks and plug ins on an underpowered pc.
some plugins for example can be quite demanding re pc resources.
some multutrack software will report various stats like plugin cpu usage….which is useful.

The above is another example of maybe getting a 30 day return on any purchase in case your chosen pc cant handle your workload needs.
Sometimes if you can it might be a good idea to rent a pc for a while to get a feel for things.
you can always of course bounce down a bunch of tracks to one track like the old days…
but some people dont want to do that.

5..PURCHASE OPTIONS.

Buying a pc for music production imho is complex compared to many apps a user might run.
One thing I did for years was buy what are called 'off lease' refurbished pc's from companies that specialised in such. These are often extremely powerful for just a couple of hundred dollars.
the reader might not believe me …but truthfully i never had one problem with refurbs.
they just ran day in/out ... .maybe i was lucky.
the advantage of such a purchasing strategy is the refurbs have been cleaned up of any bloat,
fully tested, often upgraded by the refurbisher with newer storage technology eg ssd's,
The OS is pre-loaded…and boot fast. What's not to like ?
just make sure you get a good warranty. Once again try and get a 30 day return if you can.
so you have a test time.
Typically you will find brands like HP , Dell, and Lenovo as examples for sale.
Some of these refurbs feature very high end processors. lots of ram and very fast ssd storage.
just google 'refurbished powerful pc with warranty'.

Now having said the above, be aware some low end inexpensive new pc's using current generation processors and e.g. m2 ssd storage (<<which i love..) are getting quite powerful.
In summary the tech landscape is changing for finding inexpensive low cost new pc's.

Here's another option for purchasing a pc for music production…viz buying from a builder of pc's that specialises in custom built turnkey pc's for recording studios. there are many builders if you google…eg

https://www.studiocat.com/en-ca

https://silentpc.com/daw/?gclid=CjwKCAiA-vOsBhAAEiwAIWR0TUHU5QSvq-Hy--Jf4oSX0reF7BAY89TM8CuQ1vXHDhNNaOr-cW98BRoCZ74QAvD_BwE

note…they are just examples of many. I have no links with anyone.
just google for more builders of pc's for recording studios.
some companies will also install the sound interface and all your music apps often.
so the pc is delivered and you literally just switch it on…and away you go….recording.
i mention the above because many musicians over the years have said to me 'i dont wanna be a tech i just wanna record songs'. but i feel no matter the purchasing route a muso goes the more tech knowledge a person has re pc the easier time one will have doing music production.
(whether mac or pc…this is a truism imho.)

there are lots of sources that will help you re purchasing decisions re not just pc's but all manner of recording gear….eg..
..this pg site of course.
..reaper.fm
..gearspace.com
..you tube.

to name a few ... .just google for lots of info on any gear you're considering.

6..THE NET.

this is a contentious topic ie…should i put my new pc on the net ?
please… i dont want a big argument on this topic….It's the user's decision.
I personally dont put any music production pc on the net. thus there is no possibility of
It picking up a bug whatever. In addition software for the net and security uses resources.
it's going to vary depending on pc configuration of course.
all i can say is always ive kept my music pc's off the net so there is no possibility of contamination. in addition…thus there is no possibility of a running net process/task interrupting the primary activity of music production…..which ive seen on occasion.
Maybe this is one reason I never get problems ?

Another argument for not putting your shiny new pc on the net is there are tons of under 100 buck refurb pc's and tablets one can use for the net.. For example, this chromebook I'm using for this topic was 90 bucks. Finally, if you need to download music app updates you can use a cheap old pc like i do.
If you doubt my advice, start a thread on gearspace.com where zillions of studios hang out both large and small and start a thread 'Do you put your music production pc on the net' ??youll get lots of interesting answers.
or just search gearspace for old threads on this topic.

7..PC CONFIGURATIONS.

there are lots of different pc configs.
personally i recommend a processor that's at least 3 ghz with good thread performance
for music production…see this table….

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

plus lots of ram…i use 16 gb. and i prefer m.2 solid state storage.
no reason not to use m.2 ssd. It's really cheap now.
If you anticipate using tons of tracks and high resource usage plug-ins then you might want to look at high end faster but costly processors ... .and more ram.
and remember the low microsecond dpc latency this essay started with ?
also if your interest is rolling your own pc there is a ton of info on the net and eg you tube…
'building a music production pc'.
and the above is all i'll say on this topic as there are so many opinions out there and configurations.
Let me say I'm not particularly fond of laptops due to lack of expandability compared to desktops and towers etc.

8..CHOICE OF AUDIO INTERFACE.

there are lots of sound interfaces…a bewildering array.
to keep this brief there are two threads i started here on pg related to sound interfaces
that might help and that pg users use with pg software for music production…to save me retyping here are the two links…

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=635707#Post635707

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=718708#Post718708

now let me say something of importance….i dont just go out and get any old interface.

This is a critically important purchase as it's a core piece of gear for music production…... .
As such I would recommend renting an interface for a week from your favorite local gear store as it will cost little, and test it out with your pc….ive done this in the past.
and thus see how it performs with no glitches. …and its low latency.
Most reputable gear stores know which interfaces or mixers with interfaces dont give a user problems. Once again there are lots of reviews on the net.
Finally, I recommend setting windows and biab and rb and the audio interface to 44.1/16 bit.
This has always worked best for me.(and NO i dont want to get into a long 'argy bargy debate on the merits of different sampling rates and bit depths.)


9..SO YOU GOT A 'CLUNKER' // OPTIMISING A PC FOR MUSIC PRODUCTION.

Right upfront let me say that if you have never optimised a pc for music production you might
want to use a reputable pc tech to optimize your pc as there are so many settings.
My opinions on this topic are different now than in the past because you can get for a few hundred bucks a nice powerful refurb pc off lease or new pc...thus sometimes it's not worth upgrading an old clunker ... .just donate it to someone or use it for net surfing.
but if you insist on using some old clunker there are a few things you can do.
one being to upgrade the old clunky rotating drive to a ssd.

in addition you should consider optimising the clunker to be suitable for music production.
(note what follows also applies to new pc's.)
Here are a few example valuable links re optimising an old or new pc for music production.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/windows-11-pc-optimization-for-recording/

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=654003#Post654003

(note also pg faq's on this pg site.)

also various sound interface manufacturers have usefull optimisation guidea eg…

https://audient.com/tutorial/optimise-your-windows-pc-for-audio/

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4408057193362--Optimising-Windows-11-for-Audio

There are many many other guides on the net and you tube.

just google 'optimising a pc for music production'.

let me reiterate , dont mess around with a pc's settings if all this is new to you.
get a qualified pc tech.

to come full circle before using a new pc or a clunker for music production your first stop imho
should be to run the latency monitor utility which will assess the suitability of your pc for music production.Here's the link again…

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

note...often its a driver issue re latency.

10..GETTING HELP FROM YOUR FELLOW PG USERS.
its important to note that other users wont be able to easily help you without knowing your settings.
so if you encounter problems its best to post pictures of the following settings.
..your windows playback and recording settings includeing the advanced tab.
..your settings for audio and midi drivers in biab or rb.
..your sound interface settings. Newer interfaces normally have a desktop utility with the settings.

I hope the above is of use to users new to music production.
its a very complex subject.


happiness.

om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

Addendum....1.

8. CHOICE OF AUDIO INTERFACE.

i should have mentioned a very good resource for evaluating sound interfaces
is julian krause you tube site. ive found him excellent as he evaluates them
in great detail and uses test and measurement equipment.

here is his you tube channel....lots of interfaces evaluated.

https://www.youtube.com/@JulianKrause/videos

or just google 'julian krause you tube'.

happiness

om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧

ADDENDUM..2

A TIP FOR PEOPLE ANTICIPATING USEING REAPER WITH BIAB AND REALBAND (RB)
OR CURRENT REAPER USERS USEING BIAB AND RB.
(note i was one of the earliest reaper users at v0.99 when it came out.
I will use r to mean reaper in this tip.)

some background.
as any r user knows r has come a long way from its beginnings.
with tons of features. and even more in the latest version.
and of course it's human nature to want the latest version of any software.
but for me i keep on returning to the early versions around v 2.0 eg v 1.8 because they do all i want.
In fact for years I did a slew of songs using pg software biab/rb with r.
so my tip is at least try r around version 2.
I can hear you say 'is he nuts ??'. actually no.
Here's the reason.
..its lean like any r version but at the sime time offers superb editing and super fast boots up in a wink of an eye.
..fast learning cycle.
..it has lots of advanced features eg folders/flac recording/drag drop and stats on plugins used
to name a few.
..simplicity of use. I took to it like a duck to water as it reminded me of working with 2 inch tape multitracks in commercial studios BUT with lots of extra features.
..unlimited tracks
..it handles pg plugins great and vst's.
(but youll have to test your plugins; we all use different ones.)

dont get me wrong latest r versions are great but it's all a question do you need the extra features of the later r versions ?. For me, my needs are met around v 2.0 of r.
(for links to older r versions look at the bottom of the main r web page.)
In summary just check it out and see if it floats your boat.
I am currently using it on a surprisingly powerful very low dpc (see point 1 upthread) ryzen mini pc with win 11 and of course pg biab and realband. The mini pc was dirt cheap.
realband reports i can do over 200 tracks !
this combo runs day in/out with my audient interface without any problems.

…………………………………………………………………
ADDENDUM..3
talking about mini pc's here's some added info and where you can find them.
amazon or the manufacturer's site for example.
Here's some manufacturers eg…

https://www.bee-link.com/
https://store.minisforum.com/
https://www.geekompc.com/

and there are many others.
dont underestimate the power of these pc's. particularly if you are using an old clunker pc.
For example, in mine using biab rt generator it's like 'bam' and I am playing back.
I would recommend you research one with the following attributes for a few hundred bucks.
..at least 3ghz processor with a high single thread score.
(see upthread for links to stats on thread counts.)
..16 gigs ram with ability to run 2 onboard ssd's. at least one being m.2. and plenty of usb ports.
..quiete running, no noisy fan.
..no bloatware and boots into win 11 in a few secs like mine.
..and most importantly LOW DPC COUNT. and of course good warranty and you can return it if it doesnt come up to your expectations.

one thing i really like with mine is it comes with a handy little utility that displays all sorts of performance metrics of the mini pc including cpu load.
so what you might be able to do is if your daw doesnt report plugin cpu usage stats is to test a new fancy plugin noteing the global cpu stat before adding the plugin and then after the new plugin is loaded on a track in your daw. ie test if a plugin uses lots of cpu thus potentially causing problems at times.

i hope the above helps someone further.

keep making music.

om

ADDENDUM 4.
MY OWN SONG CREATION RIG.
PART 1.

to help people further i thought it might be usefull to comment on my own song creation rig.
a lot of the following probably will be old hat for some seasoned users but i hope is usefull for new users.

1..i mentioned before that because i carefully chose my new pc re importance of low dpc..my pc plus audio interface gets the very important ultra low latency.
in my case 4 milliseconds and i could go lower if i wished but i dont push it. also realband reports i can do over 200 tracks fwiw.
but for me i only need up to 40 tracks in any song.
my system is just ticking over with low cpu and ram use. so i have lots of power to spare.
but ymmv other users needing huge track and plugin counts might need a very different cpu and ram amount.
another reason to test a pc before purchase to see if it meets your needs.
2..it's a ryzen 7 pc. 16 gigs ram with m.2 ssd and space for another ssd.
3..with my pc i get no fan noise...
but i DO have it 10 feet away just in case.
4..i use a midi keyboard with no sounds hooked up to the pc via usb...as is pg's content and programs on a very fast m.2 ssd.
I chose in pg installer the minimal install option. obviously the audio interface is hooked up to the pc direct again via usb.
various other gear is hooked up via a powered usb extender.
5..the dumb midi keyboard is used in conjunction with pg and other instrument plugins eg synthmaster and i also use fx and synth plugins sometimes that come with computer music magazine uk.
i mainly use pg fx plugins as over the years ive developed little tricks with them. one reason i love them is their low cpu useage.
(see the 3 songs in my song where i only used pg fx plugins...maybe youll hate the songs...lol.)
6..the whole pc music creation rig boots into bb and rb and windows in just a few secs. ie ITS FAST.
in new 2024... bb tracks are genned in 'a blink of an eye'. WELL DONE PG.

more to come in the coming days and weeks as time permits.

happiness

om

MY OWN SONG CREATION RIG.
PART 2.
(note. over the years ive done too many serious and demo songs to list useing pg products bb/rb.
probably around 200 i would think.)

1.BACKUPS. for backups..i have an external usb startech dock that takes 2 ssd's as well as other older usb enclosures that take old ssd's and drives.
Yes, I'm paranoid about backups...lol.
In addition I keep critical backups also offsite..
my advice…think of backing up your critical songs and anything else offsite.
also ive added new m.2 tech for backups because they are so cheap in enclosures.
a note.... from my time working in tech i dont use huge storage terabyte drives.
I prefer a divide and conquer strategy…but that's me. ie multiple smalledr drives that are cheap and fast.
2..MONITORS etc. I use a couple of inexpensive powered stereo monitors.
i dont want want to get into big arguments on monitors. there are as many different opinions as there are monitor brands. it's up to the individual. but here's why i use cheap brands….
..ive used big expensive monitors in the past in big commercial studios and found sometimes the mixes didnt translate well to low end speakers and boom boxes and earbuds etc etc.
..most people in the world can't afford 5,000 dollar studio monitors. Lots of people use cheap speakers.
in summary, and i dont pretend to be a pro audio mixer…i'm just a singer/songwriter and a tech so it's a huge challenge to render a mix tthat translates well to lots of different platforms. i just do the best i can.
i also have a pair of grado headphones that i love as well as older akg's that are showing their age plus sennheiser earbuds/iem's.
3..MICROPHONES. I tend to favour condenser mics for my vocals rather than gain hungry dynamics.which makes life easier viz interfacing to low gain mic preamps in some usb interfaces that require lots of cranking for some dynamic mics.
Frankly, having used extremely expensive mics in studios down to budget mics I would say the best approach is to rent a few mics at different price levels to assess the best one for your own needs.. also there are loads of mic (and all manner of gear) shootouts on the net and you tube etc etc.
I heard a shootout the other day between a budget mic and a 3k mic. only seasoned audio engineers might notice the difference rather than the normal listener listening to your song imho.
which leads me to suggest dont overspend on gear and do your research.
The budget gear has become excellent in many cases due to market competition.
If in doubt I recommend you rent both an expensive and inexpensive piece of gear you're interested in and try both out.
i have a 90 buck tascam mic here that i sometimes use…and when i compare its recorded vocal quality to expensive mics i once used in studios it's difficult to tell the difference.
Talking of gear shootouts there are two very entertaining threads on gearspace.com.
one comparing a 5 dollar diy mic pre (actually 25 bucks including enclosure etc) to various other mic pre's. Another shootout is between the art mp costing under 100 bucks and more expensive mic pre's. Both threads are very interesting and a fun read. gearspace has also
lots of interesting forums eg computer music and low end theory.

4..INTERFACE.
My interface right now is an audient evo 4 ...
it was meant to be a stop gap el cheapo buy as tech changes so fast.
but it's really surprised. me. so far been flawless…
here is a summary of pro's and cons as it might not be for everyone looking for more features.

a..pros
..very responsive tech support i found.
..love the 2 mic preamps.
(the vocs in the songs in my signature at the bottom of this post used the evo pre's.)
..lovely ultra low latency of 4 millisecs.
..love the control screen app that comes with it with ability to switch 48 volt on or off independently for each channel. (lots of interfaces have a global switch.).
..love the gain setting feature.
..PARTICULARLY loved the ease of install of asio mclient driver. Let me explain.
if one peruses pg and other recording forums over the years there have been many posts re faffing about with driver settings in the users music app in order to get things working satisfactorily. in contrast i was blown away by the fact that i had no faffing around in biab
driver settings. no frustration at all.
After the driver install i just booted into biab and away i went. no faffing around with driver settings….
(YAHOO ! lol.)
i'm sure ive missed something but here are the cons..
b..cons.
..for someone needing lots of inputs this is not for you. check audients website if you want more.
but of course higher price products.
..only one phone out. I use an external headphone amp.
..only one stereo speaker out.
..no midi i/o.
(I use a midi kbd connected to my pc via usb.)

i'm sure ive forgotten a pro or a con….lol.
as always ymmv/try one before purchase blah blah.
overall and at its low price i really can't fault it. particularly as it has run day in/out flawlessly.
(note ive made a number suggestions to audient re added features but of course that would result in higher price. if a user wants more i would suggest looking at the highly respected audient id range. see other recording forums and the net and you tube to read why many pro's like the id range eg gearspace.com)
I keep an open mind as new interfaces come out…eg the sterling h224 for its crazy low price. let's face it..most interfaces these days whether cheap or expensive sound very good. the rme interfaces are of course 'top dogs' but i really cant justify buying such.
(some might think me nuts but i enjoy seeing how much i can wring out of el cheapo gear....lol.)

more to come as i think of it.

happiness.

om

ADDENDUM 5.
FIGURING OUT YOUR FEATURE NEEDS RE A USB AUDIO INTERFACE.

ive seen lots of people over the years just go and buy any old interface without really doing research based on their needs.
as a result people are sometimes disappointed as they suddenly discover their new interface doesnt meet all their needs.
as i said upthread the interface is THE CORE OF YOUR STUDIO.
So here's what I recommend to save disappointment.
figure out the following...

..how many inputs do you need ?
and do you need high gain mic preamps ?
eg for field recording. so you dont have to buy a in line
booster preamp eg for gain hungry mics.
..do you need switchable on/off 48 volt phantom on each mic input ? if you use a mixture of dynamic and condenser mics...this is a consideration.
condensers need 48 v.
(some interfaces have a global switch that applies to all channels.)
..instrument inputs ? eg for guitar or bass.
..do you need midi in and out ? some interfaces dont have midi i/o.
..do you need the interface to drive multiple sets of monitors ?
..do you need multiple headphone outs ?
..do you want a simple interface rather than a interface with dsp on board with lots of fancy advanced features that might need a learning cycle ?
(some users new to music production might find such interfaces daunting to use.)
..do you want advanced features like the device ensuring you dont overload an input ?
..do you want a small mobile interfacer rather than a in studio interface with a larger footprint ? ie something you can just put in a backpack.
..do you want direct monitoring ? For me I insist on such.
..do you want multi-client support ? (see detailed info upthread)
..what type of latency stats are you comfortable with ? and will you for example want to plug a guitar or bass into an input and play in realtime say a guitar amp
sim plug in ? There are now various interfaces with ultra low latency. (I get 4 millisecs which is v good.)

i'm sure ive missed something important…lol…just the nature of the beast…
so other pg users can suggest items to add to the list if they wish.

as the reader can see…prior to purchasing there are many things that need to be considered so that one isnt disappointed with one's purchase etc.
(CAVEAT…note i suggest rent before buying OR get a 30 day return on any purchase so you can see if it's plain sailing using the new interface with your pc.)



I hope this helps someone.
happiness.
om

ADDENDUM 6.
(stuff i forgot to mention...apologies.)
more important info on latency.

over the years many people have told me 'i paid a fortune for this blasted pc…it's the fastest on the market…but i get problems…i hate pc's.'
then after the pc has been optimised for music production by a qualified pc tech at my suggestion…and ie..a tech that knows all about music production…
they go 'huh ?...What changed ? i love it'.

a fun scenario will suffice to show why the above situation occurs….as follows…

you're on a road trip with the wife and kids to see relations some distance away…and everyone needs a pitstop…food/loo/gas up the car etc etc…when suddenly your wife goes…
'oooh what a cute diner…it's in an old railway car…lets stop'...so the family traipses in and a waiter is at your table for your order fast, the food comes fast, and is great…and everyone leaves very happy'.

NOW…on the way back from seeing your relations your wife goes 'honey let's go to that diner again…it was great'...so once again you all traipse in.
but THIS TIME…you're waiting and waiting for a table as this is a very popular diner, and once you sit down it takes 5 minutes before your order is taken by the waiter…plus it takes ages to get your food…(and when it arrives it's cold…lol.)...etc etc….everyone leaves unhappy.

for the person new to music production and highly frustrated with your shiny new very expensive pc you might be saying 'what the heck have diners got to do with my pain in the rear new pc i paid a lot of money for."

actually a LOT ! people assume that because they spent oodles of dosh on a pc that music production should be a breeze. many have said to me over the years 'you paid a few hundred for your refurb pc (or now my new cheap ryzen mini pc)...how come you dont have problems'. 'I spent 5 times what you did'. and so it goes.

The answer is simple…I was very careful in my choice of pc (see point 1 at the very start…my very first post re dpc.)...and i follow all the points ive tried to make.
let me say 'day in and day out' i never get probs with my music production pc's…they just run…because my focus is the primary task of music production.

an important point to make in relation to the diner scenario and latency is i dont burden my pc with lots of apps running at the same time ...ie think of win os as a waiter in a diner giving service as fast as possible. overburden the waiter (win os) and you can get problems...some people are running 'everything but the kitchen on a pc'..and forgetting about the primary
objective being music production.
like the first diner scenario where everything was 'fast'..
Music production needs the same…very fast service by the OS. if the OS is doing other things..
then things can go 'pear shaped'...because music production needs fast service.
In summary other apps running on the pc can have an impact thus diner scenario 2 can occur.

So how to solve the conundrum ?

software that monitors your active processes while you're doing music production are very useful ... .e.g. win task manager and various other utilities one finds on the net. (be carefull !)
In addition if win takes a loooong time to boot up from cold it could be related to activation of lots of processes/tasks.
thus THINK VERY CAREFULLY about running lots of active processes/tasks on your pc at the same time as the primary task of music production.
my own pc is dedicated to music production only…as i said upthread…i have other cheap pc's to do things like the net, family apps, genealogy or crafts or downloading music software updates to bb/rb etc. my pc ONLY runs bb/rb ie just music production software.

to wrap this up…let's address the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

mac and pc's. (and lets not forget linux and even the cute raspberry pi computer.)

on the net youll see constant discussions by loyal mac and pc users re the benefits of each platform…the 'truth' is each platform has pluses and minuses….if you doubt me go to gearspace.com where thousands of studios small and large hang out.
some users will even oscillate…ie go to mac..then back to pc.
start a mac vs pc thread on GS and youll get a ton of info to make your head spin.

and I'll leave things at that….and sincderely hope this helps people further.
bottom line…its KEY you carefully assess the pc you intend to buy RATHER THAN just going out and buying any pc…DO YOUR RESEARCH….to avoid diner scenario 2.

happiness.

om

10...WRAP UP AND ROOT CAUSES/ SUMMARY OF WHY A USER ENCOUNTERS PROBLEMS USEING A PERSONAL COMPUTER FOR MUSIC PRODUCTION.

i didnt write this series of tips to be a 'smartie'. there were three reasons.

..over the years as a pg user ive seen very loooong threads develop as users try to help other users with technical problems and sometimes a lot of 'guesswork' ensues. Thus one aim of these tips was a reference point to save people's time.
(both pg users and the pg support team.)
There are many kind hearted people on these forums but it might be nice to save their time somewhat.
..it's very difficult sometimes for even an experienced pg user or tech to help another user with problems. sometimes it's akin to a medical professional going through lots of analysis steps in order to hone in FINALLY on the 'offending gremlin(s)'.
..sometimes ive seen the developer…in this case pg blamed by the user. same in industry…i would like a buck for each time a user said 'it's the IT departments fault'. I would be rich…lol. The 'truth' of the matter is yes sometimes it can be the IT folks fault but sometimes not. it must be clearly understood, and ive worked with outstanding technically brilliant people over the years that even for the best sometimes this stuff isnt trivial.
So please spare a thought for tech people trying to help you often find that 'needle in the proverbial haystack'.

common refrains ive heard over the years striving to help someone with problems include…
..'but my friend has the same pc and soundcard'. 'Why me ?'
..'this computer cost me a lot of money…it's the most powerful one sold.'
..'it's the softwares fault'.

etc etc and so it goes.
but the above means nothing often.
the friends computer might be optimised for music production or the expensive pc hasnt been optimised for music production or in fact it might be that the music app is crashing because something else on the pc is impacting the music app and the music app can't get enough pc resources to execute its tasks.
it must be clearly understood that music production apps are a very different animal from many run of the mill apps we might run. BECAUSE MUSIC PRODUCTION IS TIME CRITICAL.
as an example once i had a friend that had spent large on a pc while i had spent only a couple of hundred bucks on a refurbished pc. he had all sorts of problems because his new pc wasnt optimised for music whereas my el cheapo pc had been optimised so it ran pg
software and other music apps like a champ.

so let's address ROOT CAUSES….THERE ARE A TON OF POSSIBLES.
(and I'm sure I'm gonna miss one as I'm just human.)
In no order off the top of my head root causes can include…
..os updates.
..putting a music production pc on the net can sometimes cause problems.
..not doing one's research and even testing if one can prior to purchase of a pc.
..useing an old clunker and expecting it to do high track and/or plugin counts.
..inherent high dpc count. (see the very first post in this thread.)
..one or more defective parts.
..pc configured wrong from get go.
..pc bloatware.
..malware and/or viruses the user might not be aware of that are installed.
..poor choice of sound device viz drivers.
..sound device installed incorrectly and/or its drivers. ive even seen cases where a user forgets to install the drivers.
..incorrect setup of windows audio in identifying the sound device to use and/or win audio settings.
..incorrect setup of the music app re identifying to the music app the sound device/ drivers to use. and/or incorrect set up of other music app settings.
..incorrect setup of the sound interface itself…eg these days most sound interfaces have their own on screen control app. the user needs to ensure this is set up correctly.
..background processes and apps running and impacting the primary task of music production.
think of it like this way…if i go to the fridge and there is no food for supper because my cute new cat ate it…then i cant eat. same with music apps. if they cant get pc resources because something else is chewing up pc resources they can't function properly.
IT MUST BE CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD>>>MUSIC APPS ARE VERY TIME DEPENDENT.
(btw…lol…we had a cute cat once that could open a fridge. We still miss him to this day.)
..a pc as i said upthread with low processor thread counts can be a problem.
(see cpubenchmark.net link upthread.)


The above are just a few examples of possible root causes.
As I think of more I'll add to the list. i invite anyone to pm me with added root causes and i will update the list and attribute the update to them.

Well that's it for this series of tips and thread .
I hope new and existing pg users find them useful.

happiness to all.

om

11..ADDENDUM...MORE INFO RE SEPERATE PC FOR NET DUTIES.

in previous posts i mentioned i use a seperate pc for the net
so my music production pc isnt compromised...
ie my music production pc stays off the net.

its a ryzen 7 mini pc with m2 ssd...surprisingly fast for
a few hundred bucks and has handled so far everything
ive thrown at it in music production...
rb reports i can do over 200 tracks with it...
and remember point 1 in this thread ?? it has one of the lowest
dpc counts <<<< very important for music production.
(see start of this thread....point 1.)

just be aware i dont do massive plugin or track counts
(normally up to 40 tracks max in a song...)...
because i subscribe to the old studio adage that a good song
should be achievable in a few tracks....as i was taught
once by a LA producer.

in addition i test plugins carefully to ensure that they are
light on pc resources.

haveing said the above i decided for net use only and dloading
new music software upgrades for my production pc i would take
a flyer on a new mini pc. it was under 150 bucks and once
again surprised me. it was to replace my ageing refurb pc ive used
for the years on the net.

OVERALL...let me say it baffles me why some project studios use their
music production pc on the net and possibly run the risk of contamination
as well as the fact that apps for the net and security can consume pc resources.
thus possibly also run the risk of net processes impacting the
primary task of music production...when the problem can easily be solved
by useing a second el cheapo pc for the net.

heres a summary of its pro's and cons.
PRO'S.

..handles all ive thrown at it so far...its fast.
perfect for the net and general office stuff.
even boots into win fast which surprised me.
.. 3 usb 3 ports...very fast.
..from my tests copies files from external ssd very fast.
(note i added a cheap 25 buck 4 port usb extender...
works a charm.)
..FANLESS !!...ie no noise.
..amazeingly latency mon showed a low dpc count.
all in the green.

CONS.

..being a low end processor it has a low single thread
score. (higher the better for music production.)
and my production ryzen can do 5 times the mops than it.
(note...music production work is a lot of maths/dsp
being done by music apps...so higher mops the better within
reason. ie watch out for needing high watts.
lmao...its like cleaning hotel rooms the more cleaners
useing mops the faster the cleaning job is finished.)
..rb reported a low max track count possible around 50 compared to my ryzen
over 200.
( i always halve that so as to have a buffer
so yes it might be ok for getting a song idea down in
a few tracks...but ymmv...its gonna probably puff out for serious
serious music production and/or gaming.)

overall whaddya want for under 150 bucks ?
it was a no brainer as amazon gave me a 30 day window to
return it.

in summary as these mini pc's are sooo cheap why not keep
your production pc off the net and thus ensure its sandboxed
safe from possibly harms way ? just an idea.

HAPPINESS.

om.

12...ADDENDUM...Re refurb pc's.

i mentioned upthread how a refurb pc might be considered rather than new.
(and various advantages...note as i said upthread get a nice year warranty and 30 day return which allows enough testing of a refurb...and most important always test useing the 'latency monitor' utility to ensure suitability for music production...particularly if your not interested in 'tweaks' like us tech heads...to ensure compliance with latency mon.)

for those that want to save lots of money and want to have a lot of expandability over say a laptop here is an example of how one can get great refurb deals these days for under 200 bucks for a pc 'beast'.
in this case a hp z230 workstation for 180 bucks with powerfull xeon processors that, if i remember, originally cost at least a couple of grand from my googling.
(note i know of at least one popular daw whereby xeon processors were used in its development.)

note the number of ports and slots and number of drives supported and other features.
all i'm suggesting is the following might be considered because with the saveings a budding project studio could buy lots of various gear.
(eg..mics/hphones/monitors/...many fish and chip suppers...lol..etc. etc...whatever.)

frankly if i hadnt just bought awhile back a nice ryzen pc on a deal...i would have seriously considered this.
(or the dell or lenovo equivalent.)

for more deals (and all the time there are lots of refurb deals) just google 'Hp or dell or lenovo xeon refurbished workstation.'
this is just a low cost example of one of many one can find.
(its akin to why i always buy a used car with a warranty. lots of advantages...
includeing the fact certain problems are probably fixed.)

(as always ymmv/cya/blah blah...and the reader should make their own decisions....i'm just posting an example of the great refurb deals out there to consider for music production.)

https://www.pcliquidations.com/p143159-hp-z230-workstation-tower

there are lots of other refurb sellers and refurb deals out there.
just google.
hope the above helps someone..

happiness.

om