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Cut Time? #801006 02/20/24 08:40 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	I'm trying to write out "Spain" by Chick Corea. How do I get a good Samba rhythm in Cut Time(2/2)? Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801043 02/21/24 05:36 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,240 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A. Notes Norton Veteran
Notes Norton Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 6,240 Fort Pierce, Florida, U.S.A.	I have 3 EXPANDED Samba styles that should work. https://www.nortonmusic.com/styledemo.html#ss Notes ♫ Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com 100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801107 02/21/24 01:15 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,312 Victoria, BC Callie - PG Music PG Music Staff
Callie - PG Music PG Music Staff Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,312 Victoria, BC	I used the Familiar Song Title filter in the StylePicker, and entered "chick corea spain" and it offered many styles, all 4/4 (but this can be adjusted in the Editable Notation window). I further filtered the search specifying "samba" - the top 5 results are: _TRIPEAR (from Loops-with-Styles PAK 1) _RAMBHA (from Xtra Styles PAK 11) _HEATWAV (from Xtra Styles PAK 2) =DOGS_BJ (from Realtracks Set 11) DogSamba (from MIDI Styles Set 17) (feel free to give this a try on your own installation of course) Once you've chosen your Style, pop into the Editable Notation Window to adjust your time signature from 4/4 to 2/2, for Cut Time. -Callie

Re: Cut Time? Callie - PG Music #801117 02/21/24 02:53 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	I think changing the time sign in the "editable notation" window will be the answer that I'm looking for. Will the Real Tracks reflect this change, as well? Or does that not even matter in this instance? (I'm not near BIAB until at least tonight) Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801132 02/21/24 04:44 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	If you are looking for notation in Cut Time, while not perfect, this might get you a little closer. (Don't worry that the Style Time Signature still shows as 4/4 after setting your song to 2/4) BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? AudioTrack #801133 02/21/24 04:56 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	By the way, if you're looking at Spain, do check out Yohan Kim's version (he's about 14 years old when he performed this): BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? AudioTrack #801143 02/21/24 06:09 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	Originally Posted by AudioTrack If you are looking for notation in Cut Time, while not perfect, this might get you a little closer. (Don't worry that the Style Time Signature still shows as 4/4 after setting your song to 2/4) So, I'm not sure how that all works. If I do what you've suggested, should I notate the melody in double time, with half notes equalling quarter notes, 8ths becoming 16ths, etc.? Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801158 02/21/24 07:35 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Cut time, or Alla Breve is a meter time where each beat is a half-note (or minim) value, and there are two of these beats per bar. I don't think that BiaB natively supports 2/2 time signatures. Certainly it can be notated in 4/4. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? Callie - PG Music #801166 02/21/24 08:15 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	Originally Posted by Callie - PG Music I used the Familiar Song Title filter in the StylePicker, and entered "chick corea spain" and it offered many styles, all 4/4 (but this can be adjusted in the Editable Notation window). I further filtered the search specifying "samba" - the top 5 results are: _TRIPEAR (from Loops-with-Styles PAK 1) _RAMBHA (from Xtra Styles PAK 11) _HEATWAV (from Xtra Styles PAK 2) =DOGS_BJ (from Realtracks Set 11) DogSamba (from MIDI Styles Set 17) (feel free to give this a try on your own installation of course) Once you've chosen your Style, pop into the Editable Notation Window to adjust your time signature from 4/4 to 2/2, for Cut Time. -Callie How do I adjust the tune sig to 2/2? Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801168 02/21/24 09:14 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4, and for whatever reason, the notation doesn't work out with the chords correctly. What am I missing? Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) Spain.png (61.47 KB, 108 downloads) Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801171 02/21/24 09:33 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Funkifized I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4... If it's the one shown below, this is the time signature of the Style. Changing the notation to a different time signature doesn't change the time signature that the Style was created in. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? AudioTrack #801172 02/21/24 09:37 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"? Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801173 02/21/24 09:37 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Funkifized I've picked a Samba style, gone to Editable Notation window, found 2/2(cut time). However, no joy. Time sig in the main window still says 4/4, and for whatever reason, the notation doesn't work out with the chords correctly. What am I missing? What does your notation look like? Is that what you have shown, or is that the notation from elsewhere that you are attempting to duplicate? BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801177 02/21/24 10:25 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Funkifized Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"? Is this close to what you want? Last edited by AudioTrack; 02/21/24 11:33 PM. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? AudioTrack #801185 02/22/24 01:13 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	Originally Posted by AudioTrack Originally Posted by Funkifized Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"? Is this close to what you want? I'm not understanding the reply. I entered the notation the way it's shown on the lead sheet, but it doesn't generate correctly. My question is, how can I generate this tune, which should use a cut time samba groove? Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801186 02/22/24 01:45 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Funkifized Originally Posted by AudioTrack Originally Posted by Funkifized Okay, give up. Given the lead sheet that I posted, how does one generate "Spain"? Is this close to what you want? I'm not understanding the reply. I entered the notation the way it's shown on the lead sheet, but it doesn't generate correctly. My question is, how can I generate this tune, which should use a cut time samba groove? Most step-entered notation will never sound the same as the music created by 'real musicians'. It will lack nuances that give it the human touch. Is the problem that it sounds too rigid, too fast, too slow. Please explain what 'it doesn't generate correctly' means. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? AudioTrack #801190 02/22/24 02:25 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,257 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,257 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted by AudioTrack Most step-entered notation will never sound the same as the music created by 'real musicians'. It will lack nuances that give it the human touch. Aye, stepwise notation always sounds artificial, sometimes almost robotic. It lacks the subtle timing and touch/feel aspects. I suspect the only sensible way to get the subtleties is to use MIDI from an real musician. In principle one could edit the piano roll, but that's hard work as one needs to make small adjustments to an awful lot of notes. FWIW, I learned something about how BIAB works when I imported a MusicXML file of a Latin piece with syncopations and many short rests ... BIAB was just dropping the rests from the notation and even when I reinserted them manually, they would keep disappearing. In my case it was auto-hiding rests of a full 3/8 duration! From another thread: Originally Posted by Gordon Scott I can only imagine that it's to hide subtle timing effects from the notation, i.e., when someone is playing ahead of or behind the beat. One doesn't want hundreds of 1/64 notes or rests all over the notation. If one looks at the underlying data for styles, it can look awful. The notation in BIAB is normally, very sensibly, presented as it would be written, ignoring the subtleties of the played track. Edit: BTW the omission of rests as per my imports can be controlled with an option "minimize rests", but of course it doesn't resolve the issue of stepwise/played input. A manual search should find it. Last edited by Gordon Scott; 02/22/24 02:28 AM. Reason: addendum Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

Re: Cut Time? Gordon Scott #801194 02/22/24 02:53 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA Funkifized OP Journeyman
OP Funkifized Journeyman Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 524 Lowell, MA	Are we seriously arguing about the rigidness of step entry? Is no one understanding the problem here? The tune is in cut time! The time signature is wrong and can't be changed. The pulse of the song is wrong. Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct? Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time. Is "Spain" not common enough a tune to warrant someone wanting to make a backing track? This is like the twilight zone. Band-in-a-Box® for Windows Version 2025 (1124) 64 bit application RealBand 2025 (1) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit Intel Core i7 4800MQ @ 2.70GHz Haswell 22nm Technology 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 798MHz (11-11-11-28)

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801197 02/22/24 03:57 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,687 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted by Funkifized Are we seriously arguing about the rigidness of step entry? Is no one understanding the problem here? The tune is in cut time! The time signature is wrong and can't be changed. The pulse of the song is wrong. Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct? Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time. Is "Spain" not common enough a tune to warrant someone wanting to make a backing track? This is like the twilight zone. Quote Jesus, how does one enter the chords and melody, whether step entry or otherwise, so that the pulse is correct? That part can easily be undertaken. Forget step entry. Just connect your keyboard to your BiaB MIDI input, press Record and just play the song. When you play it back, it will be exactly as you have performed it, note-for-note, nuances and all. Other solutions are above my pay-grade (which, by the way is free). Another suggestion is to try support@pgmusic.com Let us know how you go. Good luck! BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Cut Time? Funkifized #801205 02/22/24 06:02 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,257 Hampshire, UK Gordon Scott Veteran
Gordon Scott Veteran Joined: Jan 2015 Posts: 2,257 Hampshire, UK	Originally Posted by Funkifized Double the length of the notes and double the tempo of the tune? There seriously has to be a better way to deal with cut time. BIAB's time signatures are all constructed from some subset and/or combination of 4/4 time. There are workarounds, but they're imperfect, e.g., 5/4 is done as a pair of bars 3/4 + 2/4. On the Song Settings dialog there are options to allow some interpretation, notably the options "allow RealTracks Half-time/Double-time" (and also the general use of triplets for swing, 6/8 and the like). That may help your quest. Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .

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