PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums RealBand HOW TO CREATE A MASTER BUSS IN REAL BAND???

So now I see RealBand has a more eloquent "feel" I would like to use it more, like I use Cakewalk.

But I am confused by basic functions I have never used because I never felt a need to look for them until now.

1.) What is the "master" and where is it?

In Cakewalk, the master track is called, well, MASTER, and everything goes there unless otherwise indicated (if you sent it to another buss first),.

On the mixer panel I see I bunch of stuff like A1, A2 and so forth, and tracks pegged as A1 if they AUDIO and S1 if they are midi.

But what if I want the midi tracks also to go to the Master (or even set up a master.) How is that done????

I click on S1 and A1 and I see no signs of a place to change routing.

Is A1 master by default?

Can you send midi tracks there as well, if you want a VST on the master, like you do in Cakewalk with one click?

Where is this layout in the manual???????

Is there are section in the manual that says:

"Hey, yo, I know you need a master buss, here is how you set it up, here is how you make a drum buss and route it to the master, and here is how you send a midi track to the master or another buss first and then to the master, but rest assured, they will all end up at (A1) or whatever, because that is the master master! We know that is all you need to record and mix so here is how you set that up!!"

Maybe it is there but I don't see it simply explained in one up front location.

I typed in "routing" in the search bar of the manual pdf and did not find it. I looked in the Mixer Chapter and saw everything else but. I read that there are all kinds of cool things but not much HOW TO.

Any help appreciated.

I do not want to :"give up" this time.

The bottom right mixer section A1 is the default Stereo out. The bottom right section is the master out section
The rest of the A2-8 outs (here) are for additional outputs you may have selected in your Audio Preferences - Drivers section.

The top right of the mixer is AUX slots (where the signal goes when you use the AUX dials on the mixer) .. these eventually get routed to the main (bottom section) A1-8 outs (usually A1).
I made a drawing once that explained routing in RB (although it would be dated now) .. wish I still had it to share.

User guide pages 152- 154 are all I found for any help and they are pretty basic, ignoring the bottom right 'master out' section altogether.

As a basic example, if you wanted to use Ozone to master the final mix, it would go in one the the FX slots on the A1 channel in the bottom right of the mixer.

95%+ of users end up sending everything out the final A1 out in the bottom right section of the mixer, but you can use the rest of those outs to feed different sets of speakers, or other uses, if desired ... They only work if you enable the Driver outputs in Prefs and then use those Ports on selected tracks.
Theoretically you could send the bass track out to master A2 and rout that to a bass cabinet while sending the rest of the mix out A1 to stereo monitors or such.

hope that helps .. some of RB I have just figured out as I went along since documentation always seems to be lacking or lagging.
Once you get the basic concept of the routing, there are lots of options, but some simple things like labeling the bottom right mixer section as Master Outs .. and simply labeling the AUX section would help <sigh>

Oh, and if an S1 track is sent to a software synth it ends up going out the Master Out section on A1 .. I don't think you can change that, or at least I haven't done so yet.
It it goes out as MIDI to a hardware synth, then of course the routing of that hardware synth takes over for the audio out of it.

One other tidbit is the little 'All' slider between the Mixer left (Tracks) section and the right (Master) in the little sliver that separates the two .. it boosts all the tracks outputs from the left side of the mixer to the right side sections .. I just usually leave this at a 100% and adjust the tracks as needed .. but I think it initially defaults to a little less than 100%. I have absolutely no idea what those two little dials directly above the All slider do after all these years, I just leave those at 100% too.

RB is a very unique DAW. the good news is that it has almost every feature one needs, the bad news is it is somewhat unintuitive. I find that some of what people complain about it is that they don't dig deep enough. Still there is a lot of hard coded "crap" that needs to be redone to make it more appealing to the average DAW user. This not likely to happen any time doon or maybe ever. Still as a companion to BiaB it is really powerful. This years upgrade to the comping tools was stellar. I recently tested it using the plugins i bought from Harrison mixbus namely the 32C channel and a couple other master bus channel strips and i was blown away at how the mix came out. My only gripe was unlike more modern DAWs i can't drag the 32C plugin from track to track and setup takes longer. but wow what a product when setup right.

Thanks Harv. This is a good start for me and I appreciate it.

I will follow up later as days goes by with more lengthy responses and ideas, because I think that the drawback is in the owner's manual which doesn't really explain anything very well (or simply I should say) and that can be fixed, and I have other ideas as well.

But thanks for what you've given here because I would not have been able to figure it out otherwise.

More to come.

Yes thank you Rob.

Pursuant to my reply to Harv just now, I think some simple and thoughtful instructions in the owner's manual could go a long way here.

Another thing that would be helpful is if someone at PG music simply constructed a template for an .seq file that was already set up and loaded if you will with all of the basic functions that are needed to create simple busees and a master bus and learning how to use the top row of the A1 features and the bottom row of the A1 features and so on and so forth with a very simple section in the manual written in excruciatingly plain English of what all of the routings are and how they work with simple screenshots. The slots could be loaded with some PG effects or Sforzando setups just to show you the logic and routing choices.

Then they can make this template created in House available for download so we could look at it and see how things are wired, with a SLOOOW MOVINGGGG video and a manual passage as an accompaniment to this training.

That's all I need. I need to see how it works.

Videos are usually not that helpful because they go too fast and huge chunks of information are left out so you have to keep rewinding in an effort to try and connect the dots only to find out that information to connect the dots isn't necessarily there.

Like with Cakewalk it's pretty simple what I need. To me, Cakewalk is so easy to figure out that a two-year-old could do it.

I need to know how to insert a soft synth, I need to know how to arm an audio track with vsts, I need to know how to set up different busses for drums, vocals, other instruments and so forth, and I need to know where the most common buttons for mixing, and creating envelopes are located, including instructions for undoing envelopes and stuff like that.

There's really only 25 things that you need to know in order to sit down and record and produce a song and they're pretty straightforward. I've mentioned most of them.

But I swear to the high heavens I look at this owner's manual sometimes and I try and figure out how to do the simplest thing and I just throw my hands up in the air and say forget it.

It's not like that with Cakewalk.

I don't understand why it can't be just very very simply explained insofar as the very basics are concerned. It can't be that hard. The things that you need to record and mix and render a song is a pretty short list.

I don't really need 500 pages, I need 20 good ones. Fred Flintstone simple.

Again, I don't think this is a software deficit I think it's an owner's manual deficit I really do.

Because many times I look at the manual the stuff that I really need to know just doesn't seem to be there.

I wonder if this is just me.

David this last year i bought Harrison Mixbus 32C what i like about it is that every track (Channel) has a compressor, EQ, limiter, gate, and sends built in. The master bus has EQ, Compressor and Gate. there is nothing to do but record, and then mix down your work. It is not perfect and those who use fancy midi tools might find it lacking in that area a bit, but for audio production it is very powerful. I can get the same results from RB but it takes twice as much work. Personally, i am fond of RB and love that it natively opens BiaB song files. I wish it didn't open them with BiaB tracks up top that are confusing. Why not just open them up as audio files and do the conversion behind the scenes. Next why show all 256 tracks i wish it opened with no tracks or had a simple 8 track template if wanted. Too busy! The program needs some love, but as a non-money maker an add on it doesn't get what it needs.

Thanks Rob and Moultipass.

Moultipass, you have nailed it.

Yes, I LOVE and ADORE RealBand but I want to UNDERSTAND the routing and be able to USE IT now that is is SO MUCH IMPROVED.

But, I cannot "go to the end" as Moultipass eloquently puts it, without a PROPER INSTRUCTION MANUAL. I don't want to "give up" again.

See this screen shot of Sonar/Cakewalk below (I have both programs but still use Artist a lot, don't ask why.)

It is all here. A child could do it.

All I want is a few simple pages with CLEAR and simple explanations of how to replicate this kind of workflow in RealBand--and have it stick. Please make it so that you easily add as many individual soft synth tracks as you want and have them re-appear when you re-open EXACTLY the way they were when you saved the file. And not have them "competing for space"--where you insert a synth in an open space and it starts using the sounds from another synth instance for some oddball reason and you have to open and re-select synths five times before it gets it straight. Please. Please, please, please.

This screenshot shows 95% of what happens in a mix. How hard can it be to explain the routing steps in plain English to replicate something like this in RealBand???

The program is great, but the manual?

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

How about this for a start:

How in the flipping flip do you make a track set at A1 (all of them) set to, like A2???

Where are the instructions???????????????????

https://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/rb2022full/chapter11.htm


Where???

Maybe we can go on to setting G2 subgroups in a separate session of the PH.D program.

I just need four busses. How do you do that????????????????????????????????

I do not know where the instructions are, too tired to search the manual. Had a couple loooong days.

But in my image below you can use the Port setting in the right-click menu to route tracks to a specific Master Out subgroup.
On my system the labeling now appears wonky (in the image below) .. but the long/short of it is use the Port option to assign an output.
It appears you can have about 16 Ports, but I only have a couple enabled most of the time.
/These ports/paths must be enabled in Prefs-Audio-Drivers area before they'll show up in the Track Port list, which makes sense .. but again I feel like I had to figure a lot of this stuff out due to sparse documentation.
//it's all my fault, I know

David if you want to send tracks to busses for Effects that is fairly straight forward.

Use the top right fx busses (8 total) and add the effect you want (reverb for example) the dial in the amount in the tracks,

To use sub groups (example drums) maybe to process the drums through a gate or compressor The do the following

1. In options/Preferences (CTRL F5) and check the box "Unassigned output ports work as subgroups" You will notice that the 16 A1 Thru A16 are now named A 1 and G2 thru G16

2. Add whatever you want to the sub group of choice.

3. to send tracks there click the out on the track and go to Ports: (5th option down on the list) and chose the group wanted It will output back to the Master (A-1)

Not easy to find but easy to do once you have it. I am printing this out and keeping it in a folder of RB tips and tricks.

Thanks guys.

I will print these out and fool with the settings over the weekend to see if I can make some sort of a template or figure it out, and come back with more stupid questions if I run into roadblocks.

It seems to me that we are actually writing the draft of he “Quick Start” guide everyone needs in real-time, right here.

Maybe, we should actually create a little team to do that: write Quick start guide together, and then send it to PG and say,

“Here, clean this up and put a cover on it. Real Band Quick Guide.”

I am serious.

Per my screenshots, this is the stuff everyone needs to know, and it has to be clear as day, suitable for a trifold, laminated.

How to:

1. SET UP A MASTER BUSS

2. MAKE A DRUM BUSS

3. MAKE A VOCAL BUSS

4. ROUTE THOSE TO MASTER BUSS

5. USE A SUBGROUP

6. WHERE SWITCHES ARE LOCATED, A SIMPLE MAP, SCREENSHOTS

7. INSERT A SOFT SYNTH AND SAVE THE FILE WITHOUT GOING MAD, SO IT ALL COMES UP SAVED NEXT TIME

Know what I mean guys??

Looks like we need to write the Quick Start ourselves, and this is some of the info...

Rob,

Thanks to you and rHarv, rHarv, what is your name again? I hate to keep saying rHarv.



See my idea just above, Rob, it was a reply all....

Rob and "Harv":

Dudes we totally need to write the Quick Start Manual. I used both of your instructions and finally have a board in progress.

So, when we are done, I will laminate this as a trifold and sell it online for $29.95 with a 10% discount for Real Band subgroup forum members only.

Act now while supplies last!

Don't get Real Band 2024 until you know how to use it!! I would give it away but my wife won't let me!!!

You can call me Bob or 'Harv' .. I don't care.
Just don't call me collect.
However it is important to remember that "it is all rharv's fault" .. so if you're going to blame me for something I insist you stick with the proper nomenclature

Actually, on your diagram it is slightly backwards. The master channel is in the bottom group, A 1. The A 2 thru A 16 are optional outputs and can be setup as subgroups.

The upper 8 channels are FX bins and can be used as typical busses. Drums, vocals, guitars etc. Or another option is to use the A 2 thru A 16 as G 2 thru G 16 as subgroups and use them to effect groups of tracks. Those feed the A 1 master channel.

I setup a new song file with a Harrison 32C channel strip on 16 tracks. And the SSL compressor and EQ on A 1 as a master channel. I saved this as "Robs32C16channel.seq". I can open that and rename it and go from there. It works as a template (which do not work, templates that is) I am not sure why templates do not work but they don't. So, setting up a basic song file does give a start place.

I good basic quick start would be really cool to have. I spent almost 2 years using RB almost exclusively, but finally gave up because while it worked great, it still had a few too many crashes, and also to many corrupted files. I also found that so many features were and are kind of behind in development to other DAWs. Comping, routing, VST1 VST, Effects, and many more. RB does these things, but it is not as well developed and certainly not as modern in its approach.

With the continued development of the BiaB plugin it becomes less viable every day.

Thanks Rob I'll have to take a look at that tomorrow on my computer, my computer is off and I'm on my phone right now.

I think maybe I was referring to the A 1 Port on the bottom row not the top. I may have mistakenly circled that because it's, well, called the same thing, which is kind of strange for one row of A1 not to do the same thing as the other slot labeled A1.

At any rate I have the bottom row figured out using those subgroups as busses.

Can you tell me how you would direct any tracks to the A1,A2 slots on top?

I'm not looking at it right now because my computer is turned off and I'm just trying to see it in my mind's eye.

I couldn't figure out how to Port anything or route anything rather to the ones on the top row. I can only use the information one of you guys gave me to create the subgroups and do the routing after doing the right click on the track.

Soo..... Do you have any kind of instructions or screenshot maybe to show how to route a track to those ones on top as you say???

Simple, on each track there is 4 send knobs marked 1 thru 4 you just dial up the knob to send how much signal to the first 4 aux busses. you can change the number by clicking on the existing number and all 8 pop up.

There are little dials on the mixer labeled AUX .. these control how much signal from a given track goes to each AUX.

If you click the little number beside the dial it lets you define which AUX.

.. wow, it must have taken me 3 minutes to type that and refine that (screenshot and all) .. I didn't see Rob's post (above mine) when I started the post.
Whelp, now you have two references .. both are correct.

Rob and Bob Harvey,

Guys, I think I got it now.

Awesome.

BUT, there is no way I could have figured this out from the manual.

Why isn't this clearly explained for newbies trying to set up a board or use Real Band as a primary DAW, which it looks like it could do, once you know this stuff.

THIS is the MOST IMPORTANT PART.

Wow, ok.

Off to Kinkos to make my trifold now.

Thanks guys!!

Glad we helped .. sometimes I feel like this forum IS the manual for RB.
/faster just to ask most of the time
//I've been on with Support and they were like "you could do that in RB previously?"
///They do their best, but yeah, RB is not well documented if you want to get the most out of it, it's very capable but takes some effort

FWIW I'm not paying "$29.95 with a 10% discount for Real Band subgroup forum members only" for the trifold manual .. what kind of discounts do contributing members get?
A PDF version would be even better
I do support the idea as it could save me a lot of typing ..
For how many you'd sell, maybe you could donate it to PGMusic so they can add it to the manual, and they offer you free upgrades in return .. I'd probably try that path first
You'd have to sell 15 trifold manuals to cover next years upgrade alone .. minus printing costs

(just posting this as the first post in rb forum celebrating with my new eyesight im ecstatic with the surgeons. apologies but im over the moon. )

anyway a music producer once told me if you want to do songs be prepared to get down into the muck and dig deep into any song creation tool. the guy was exemplary.

any daw ive used was lots of work to ge into.
so rb isnt the only daw where a user must be prepared to dig deep.
i am posting this cos i dont want potential new rb users reading this thread to think. hmm not going to try rb because it sounds complex. which would be sad as there are various things that make rb unique over other products. is it perfect ? nope but nothing else ive tried is either. I'm just trying to be fair.
now rb has 256 tracks and its free and lets remember beatles did their hits on 3 or 4 track recorders eg studer j 37's in studios like abbey costing millions. we are spoilt today by comparison.

after many years and doing a slew of songs with pg rb/biab and another daw i use all i'll say is songs are a load of work hours on end no matter the tool used.
even now i discover things in biab/rb and the other daw i use.
And i also discover new ways to use the pg fx .
i often wonder if users dismiss the pg fx like rb because they are free. the three songs in my sig used only pg fx and ive had only likes so far from 'the normal music consumer'.
who knows why. i just try my best.

i am just very happy to see some of my suggestions be in 2024. some have suggested i am biased towards rb. so be it. Is rb work ? sure. but so are any tools. all i can say is ive never had even one problem with rb with my audio interface.
(same for biab).

viva la rb lol.
keep making music.

om

I LOVE Real Band, as I have stated many times.

Many, many, many times.

I would even say I am a super user in that I use it every day and do most of my track generation and even composing from/in it, like jamming on piano to real tracks (e.g, bass and drums) and remembering to always have midi record on. Then, if I hit a cool riff or chord progression, I will let the chord analyzer tell me what I just did, and most of the time I can later cut and paste some of what I recorded in that midi into the final piece. Priceless.

Also, I do ALL all of my recording in it. I just haven't used it for mixing much, because I didn't know how and it was too easy to just move to Cakewalk. But this year, I wanted to figure it out, so I did start digging.

BUT, I want to be able to use it better, and for more things, since there has been a major upgrade, and the manual does not make it easy to figure out the fundamentals.

If you are are directed to this forum to get answers from users, then that is what you will do. I was directed here, to get forum members to explain.

So I did, and they did.

That is the way it works.

Now I get it.

All I really need is what Rob and Bob just said.

So, I am good.

But it was not in manual.

It was here.

I will suggest that the next manual has a two page intro to setting up a board that a two-year-old could understand, which is now in this thread.

By the way, I am the guy who asked for the 256 tracks last year as part of many conversational threads I had with the developers. My argument? I live in Real Band some days and when you are recording 30 vocal takes, 5 guitar parts and 20 takes on some guitar leads, you run out of 48 tracks fast. Real Band is my workhorse, I said. I need more tracks please. Now thanks to PG, who listened, you have them. Personally, I feel locked and loaded now.

So yeah, I know a few things about Real Band.

You're welcome.

i agree re manual/vids etc need for updating.
there are various other features i would like which i have suggested to pg.
but i'm not complaining as things stand.
one major thing i would like to see particularly for new users is more commonalty between bb and rb. to lessen the learning cycle for new users.
for example i like how handy the right click menu in rb is and would like the same in bb.

lol...if i get in a nit picking mood i remind myself that if one wanted
to own a recording studio in the 1960's one had to be very rich to do so due to the high costs.
and even then one would only get a few tracks to record on.
yet here we are today whereby someone can get bb and rb with
various session rt's on a flash drive for a 100 bucks.
George Martin would maybe say WHAT ?

happiness.

om