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Hi all.
Recently, I've been exploring using Music XML files in BiaB, and I'm getting some mixed results with the outcomes.
Are there any other users who have used Music XML for import and export within BiaB who could share their experiences, and if everything had worked satisfactorily, if they had success or found any issues?
I'm keen to get any feedback from other users' experiences. What worked, what didn't work as expected, etc.
Thanks in advance.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Hello AudioTrack!
I'm working on a songbook and use Band-in-a-Box for Windows to generate a MusicXML file. I import a melody into the Melody Track (midi file) and enter the chords (Chords Sheet) and lyrics (Notation Window). By the way, typing the lyrics is so easy and fast, I love the way BB works on lyrics. When I go to File > Save Special > Save Song as MusicXML file, I check only the Melody Track and uncheck the option "Save text events". Thus, when I import the MusicXML to Sibelius, the staff, lyrics and chords are all right!
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Have to admit, this feedback was a bit of a pleasent surprize. Would love to see an example of the eventual output from Sibelius using this workflow. Can you share a picture from you upcoming book?
Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper!
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Regarding Importing XML to BIAB.
I have two XML files. One is Key of F and in 3/4. When I load this into BIAB it notates in Key of C and 4/4.
Also the second song is Key of E, 12/8 and has lyrics. But when put in BIAB it notates as key of C and 4/4.
Is that all I should expect?
And can someone tell me how I find the lyrics in BIAB? Otherwise, the individual midi channels did get assigned to the Utility tracks properly with one exception. If you have "Chord Track" turned on it will try to put midi content there but it will not overwrite the "chord midi", so that track is lost.
Thanks
Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper!
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Would you attach a test file to confirm please?
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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OK, confirmed wrong key and wrong time signature.
The lyrics are on the melody track but don't show in the lyrics window.
It opens fine in MuseScore.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Here are some results of my testing. All testing was done within BiaB. Steps: 1: File > New Song, Enter a range of chords 2: Save Song. This is the chord chart: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27607&filename=2024-03-13_13-06-27.jpg) 3: File > Save Special > Save Song as MusicXML File and save as 'MusicXML_Tests1.XML', using these settings: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27608&filename=2024-03-13_13-09-23.jpg) 4: File > New 5: File > Open Special > Open MusicXML File > select the 'MusicXML_Tests1.XML' saved earlier 6: Use these settings, and press OK: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27609&filename=2024-03-13_13-13-12.jpg) 7: Get 3 messages that 20% (or less) of the notes are triplets  (None of the notes are triplets as there are no notes in the song at all.) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27610&filename=2024-03-13_12-41-05.jpg) 8: The ending is completely different to the ending of my original song (see step 2): Note: There are two bars added at the front, which was expected because of the 'BB Song Bar offset' value of 2. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27611&filename=2024-03-13_13-13-48.jpg) So it seems that BiaB cannot either correctly write or read the XML file it produces itself. I'm interested to see if the results work correctly with other input files.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I would have to see the code to see if the errors are from exporting or then importing. Creative idea to import your own exported file.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I would have to see the code to see if the errors are from exporting or then importing. Creative idea to import your own exported file. The XML file file can be downloaded from this link. I'm presuming that the problem is caused during the Save As (export) function. Examining the XML shows two bars <measure number="1"> and <measure number="2"> that both do not contain a <root-step> attribute (the current Chord), and the <root-step> values for first four chords C, D, E, F do not begin until <measure number="3">. At measure 35, there is a C7 which originally appeared at measure 33. BiaB has added the 'end' and C7 chord at measure 38, and this was probably an internal function, as there is no data in the XML file at that point. The XML ends after measure 36. Interesting to get your appraisal. Thanks!
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Thinking further, it may have saved the space for the two bar count in the first two measures of the XML, even though the count-in should not be in the XML, so those first two measures are definitely an issue.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I've found importing MusicXML to be quite useful, but there are definitely a few quirks.
An anacrusis will be put into a full bar, left justified.
BIAB often(?) gets confused by cut time, and probably also by other non-4/4 time signatures.
BIAB has a feature to hide rests in the notation, which is presumably intended to make live-played MIDI look clean and sensible, but also gets applied to XML and it can be rather over-aggressive at hiding them. The option is set from the notation view Opt.->Minimize rests. Unfortunately this is either on or off ... there's no minimum/maximum size for hiding/showing rests. I think it should not apply this from XML, but I think it's just how BIAB works.
MusicXML is pretty complex, combining all the oddities of MIDI with a whole load of oddities of notation. As a consequence many programs are imperfect when handling it.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
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If anyone has MuseScore (or any other Music XML reader), could they download the XML file from the link above and see how it appears in that program? Are there two blank measures at the start, etc?
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Yes, there are always the two blank first measures, at least whenever I’ve used it to export. I have the two-measure default count-in so I haven’t tested what would happen if I changed that in Preferences, Count-in/Metronome.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I haven’t tested what would happen if I changed that in Preferences, Count-in/Metronome. I'll try it. I'll be back... OK, I'm back. No, it's not related to the count-in. I disabled the count-in, generated, exported the song as XML, opened the new XML and there are two fake measures before the first chord, just like before. The actual song starts on measure 3. That's just not right... I feel confident that this is not part of the Music XML spec. Here's the download link to the XML of the song without a count-in.
Last edited by AudioTrack; 03/13/24 05:22 AM.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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7: Get 3 messages that 20% (or less) of the notes are triplets (None of the notes are triplets as there are no notes in the song at all.) . I opened up your .xml file in Musescore. While the chord names are apparently transferred properly, the actual voicings of the chords are totally missing? As you say, there are no notes at all? Time to read the manual. OK, not much in the manual. But it appear this BIAB test file does not have any midi at all. So the Chord names are just "labels". There are no notes associated with these.
Last edited by DrDan; 03/13/24 06:55 AM.
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If I set bar offset to 0 and numbers of bars in XML to skip to 2, it seems much better. But I have not checket it in very detail, it just looks ok in the chord sheet.
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Summary (so far) of proven repeatable (by many) import into BIAB issues: - Wong Key <== root issue BIAB is importing in XML 3.0. All other apps are using 4.0. - Wrong Time signature <== root issue BIAB is importing in XML 3.0. All other apps are using 4.0. Still investigating - What does it do with note-based lyrics - Why are Maj7 chord spelling missing in some examples - Rhythm slashes showing as notes Notes: Trevor's export from BIAB then import into BIAB test: - BIAB is using Music XML 3.0 the rest of the world is using Music XML 4.0 <== root issue - FYI, I did Trevor's test of output then input in BIAB and all but lasts chord was wrong compared to input when using an offset of 0. I also brought it into Musecore and exported it as mxl 4.0 and strangely enough it was close to accurate when importing into BIAB. The only variation was an extra part break at the end of the song. I recommend people read the Music XML 4.0 spec to understand its purpose: https://www.w3.org/2021/06/musicxml40/MusicXML 4.0 was released in June 2021 and all current scoring apps use it, so BIAB is 3 years behind. I think we know enough now to consider this a feature request to update BIAB to the standard for Music xml for the last three years.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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- Why are Maj7 chord spelling missing in some examples I noticed when importing from MuseScore that the import didn't like MuseScore's delta symbol for Major chords.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I just found another, bigger problem, with Music XML Steps to reproduce: 1: Create a new song, 16 bars, add chords to each bar, I used a style with 140bpm. 2: Use Bar settings to change to number of beats per bar to 3/4 at bar 9, 2/4 at bar 13, and 4/4 at bar 15 3: Use Bar settings to change the tempo to 120 bpm at bar 11 4: Generate and Save the song 5: File > Save Special > Save as Music XML file 6: File > Open Special > Open Music XML file (set the BB Song Bar Offset to zero if necessary) 7: Review the Chord chart for differences to the original song. Here is the original song: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27617&filename=2024-03-14_12-28-18.jpg) It has the following bar changes: **** Band-in-a-Box Report of Changes in the song at any bar ****** Song Title is: MusicXMLTests_b, File Name is E:\bb\AAA_MySongs\Development\MusicXMLTests_b.SGU [Thu, 14 Mar 2024 11:55:00] Bar 9: TimeSig to 3/4. Bar 11: All Choruses,Tempo Change = 120 Bar 13: TimeSig to 2/4. Bar 15: TimeSig to 4/4. This is the same song after saving as an XML file and then opening the XML file in BiaB: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27618&filename=2024-03-14_12-33-06.jpg) All of the XML usage is completely internal to BiaB. Definitely more work needed in my opinion.
Last edited by AudioTrack; 03/13/24 05:57 PM.
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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