PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Band-in-a-Box Pro 2024 crash on startup [Resolved]

Band-in-a-Box Pro 2024.
Fresh install on Windows 11.

Every time I start BIAB, I get an access violation in bbw64.exe.
NONAME.SGU is in the title bar.

BIAB seems to work after the crash, but just ignoring this serious problem doesn't seem right.

Any suggestions ?

You should definitely send the error log report to PG Music as suggested.
An Access Violation is a serious unhandled error, and should be managed effectively by the program.

Another thing to try:

1. Make sure Band-in-a-Box is not running
2. In the Preferences sub-folder, create a file named safemode.txt It can be an empty file, it's only the file name that's important.
3. Start Band-in-a-Box. You will see a text message confirming that it is in "safe mode".
4. This forces the program to start using factory settings.
5. Test to see if the problem still occurs using this method.
6. Afterwards, you can close Band-in-a-Box and delete or rename the file.

This method means that you won't have made any changes to your overall settings.

(Also, welcome to the forums)

I did and they tried to help.

Yes, access violations are serious problems but there is no way to handle them effectively. They should not be allowed to occur in the first place.

Tried that, didn't seem to do anything.

I just started getting this same error. None of the things PG support asked me to try had any effect. I still get the error.

I'm on the latest version of Win11 Pro.

Question to those of you also experiencing this access violation: are you on the latest version of Win11? Is it possible that a recent Windows update is responsible?

I don't mean to suggest that I'm happy about the situation, but I'm happy that I'm not the only one. That tells me that there's a real problem.

Now, after doing a full reset to factory defaults, I've got to try to remember how I got my BiaB UI set up the way I did. Sigh.

2024 Crash on Startup is a minor problem? How so?

Hi Sid,

Here are some thoughts that occurred to me as I read your post.

Where have you installed BIAB. Is it in C:\Program Files" by any chance? If it is, this is not a good location for the program.

Also, it would be worthwhile right-clicking on the shortcut and then choose "Run as administrator" when you start it to see if that makes a difference.

Lastly... Go to \bb\Prefences and rename intrface.bbw to intrface.bbw.old and MySetup.DK to MySetup.DK.old ... Doing this forces BIAB to create new versions of these start-up files. If that doesn't solve the problem, you can always go to \bb\Preferences and delete the new versions of these files and return to the old versions by removing the .old from the extension.

Regards,
--Noel

If any program my company developed crashed with an A/V after first startup, I would make it a priority to resolve and fix. Others may have a different approach, but that's what I would do, without exception.

I'm using Windows 11 Home version 23H2 build 22631.3447.


It's in C:\Band-in-a-Box
Except one folder, which I didn't choose : C:\Program Files\PG Music Inc\Band-in-a-Box Sounds

Why would Program Files be a bad location for a program ? That's where programs are supposed to be installed, and it has been for almost 30 years.


PG Support told me to do that and to Reset to factory defaults, it didn't help.

If a program causes an access violation, it doesn't work. It is not a minor problem, it's a major problem.
Anything the program does after the crash is Undefined behavior.
This is particularly risky in a program that uses plugins from unknown publishers.


Nice try.

Well, that's not right at all. That used to be the desired location, but Windows security changes and more in recent years (the last 15 years at least) have indicated that this is now not to desirable location.

C:\bb\ is the default location (substitute 'C:' for any other drive.)

'Program Files', and 'Program Files (x86)' etc are a big no-no (for many years now).

It's all about security.

The only program installed in a root folder on my system is Band-in-a-box, so if you are right there are a lot of software companies doing this wrong.

Can you point to any information about how Program Files was phased out ?

C:\Band-In-A-Box should be an okay folder to use. While PG Music recommend \bb, it's possible to vary that without issue.

Can you try these couple of things and see what happens.

(1) Go to C:\Band-In-A-Box and then double click on BBW64.EXE.
This is simply starting the program without using a shortcut. (Doing this is a check to see if the shortcut might be including some unusual startup instructions.)

(2) Also try starting BIAB in 32-bit mode and see what happens. To do this, go to C:\Band-In-A-Box and double-click on BBW.EXE. Does this version of BIAB start okay or not?

(3) Please have a look under "Help | About Band-In-A-Box" and check that you have the latest update installed. It should say "Version 2024(1111)". This is indicating that you have update #1111 installed (which is the latest update).

(4) What antivirus software do you use?

Couple of quick reactions:

1) We know from experience that BIAB will not work if installed into either one of the /Program Files folders. We have known this for decades (I tried it once over twenty years ago) and PG Music has confirmed not to do that.

What we do not know is why. I concur it probably has to do with changes in Windows related to security - the security OF Windows. As I recall, BIAB actually could start to run if it was installed in a /Program Files folder, but would immediately crash when any action took place that tried to save into that folder.

Why other applications install into /Program Files folders and work, when BIAB does not, is unknown to me.

2) The addition of the safemode.txt is an alternative to this: " rename intrface.bbw to intrface.bbw.old and MySetup.DK to MySetup.DK.old ". If one didn't work, it's not a surprise the other did not.

3) I recall reading a comment from Support that you do not HAVE to call the BIAB folder BB. The installer certainly will want to do so, but if you are very careful to change the recommended folders in each step of the install, and each step every upgrade forevermore, then it can go into a different folder. Just not one of the /Program Files folders.

4) What I don't fully understand is exactly what is happening with this: if BIAB crashes on startup, how do you continue to work with it? I think you may be saying something like "BIAB crashes on startup the first time, but then runs normally". Is that correct? That would be quite a different problem statement, requiring a different examination.

EDIT: I like everything Noel just wrote while I was typing my comments.

Access violation

Access violation

It says Version 2024 (1111)

Windows Security (Comes with Windows 11)


From the first post in this thread : Every time I start BIAB, I get an access violation in bbw64.exe.

Thanks, Sid.
This is indeed a strange problem that you have.

Out of curiosity, if you go to "Audio | Audio drivers.settings", what is your Audio Driver Setup? By default, it should be WAS. Try changing this to MME, exit the menu and then restart BIAB. Does this make a difference?

OK. I hope you don't mind that I'm just trying to clarify. Yes, you said that you get an access violation in bbw64.exe every time you start BIAB [my emphasis]. But then you went on to say this "BIAB seems to work after the crash, but just ignoring this serious problem doesn't seem right.". So you do seem to be saying it crashes only the first time, or maybe even most of the time, but then it does not crash.

Please elaborate.

It was WAS, changing it to MME does not help.

On a side note, changing it to ASIO causes an immediate access violation, probably because I don't have any ASIO drivers. But that's a different bug.

I don't mind at all, I appreciate that everybody wants to help here.

Every time I start BIAB, I face two message boxes due to an access violation. In my brain, that is a crash.

Now, BIAB detects this serious problem and continues operating. In my book, that's bad practice but anyway - BIAB seems to work after that, until the next time I start it.

Ya, this is not a "crash", but I agree 100% with everything else you are saying. By the way, I have BIAB at c:\BB. And I don't see any access violation message. Good luck.

OK, it's not a crash; it's an error message. Can you take a screen capture of the error message(s) and post that image here?

A program can detect that it has crashed, report it and act like nothing bad happened, that does not change the facts. It's a crash.

The screen captures are attached to the first message in this thread.

Hi Sid,

An exception at bootup is uncommon, but of course is an annoyance, even if the program works fine when it is dismissed. Typical cause is an error hooking up to a plugin or audio driver. And many other possibilities of course.
Please post the log text file (the first 100 lines is fine. That usually points to where the problem is. There’s also a setting preferences that will write a special log file at bootup that shows where the exception is occurring.

Regarding your question about “program files”. Yes, Microsoft added rules and restrictions to any program residing in the program files folder, These prevent a program from saving files into the program files folder for example (depending if you have an admin account, and UAC settings). This happened over ten years ago, and I haven’t kept track of if windows has changed their policies. But a program in the c:\BB folder has been left alone and is able to read and write to files inside that folder regardless of the admin account status or security settings.

Discussed here…
https://superuser.com/questions/1031275/windows-allow-normal-non-elevated-programs-to-write-to-program-files-director/1031285#1031285
“ For example, if an application attempts to write to “C:\program files\appname\settings.ini” and the user doesn’t have permissions to write to that directory, the write will get redirected to “C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\appname\settings.ini”.
This just isn't something you can't change. This is intentional.”

As for Program Files - the folder is intended for programs, not their settings or the user's documents. To me, that was clear from the start and that hasn't changed. This is how it should be, settings and documents should be preserved and backed up and therefore kept separate from the programs which can be and frequently are reinstalled. It is also possible for a program to be used by more than one user and the settings and documents should be stored on a per user basis.

I have been experiencing this exact same problem and have tried several different things suggested by support. Nothing helped. They never once asked me for the error log. Here's mine, stopping before the first loaded modules entry for Windows System modules. Note that the date is Euro formatted, so that's 7 May, the last time I started up BiaB. Once I saw this forum thread, I knew it wasn't just my problem. I got tired of messing with this and moved on to other things, waiting for a general solution. I just wonder if this problem is related to a recent Windows update. I'll also note that I'm running on a Lenovo P17 where I had a recent graphics driver update.

==============================================================================
= 07/05/2024 17:39:32 =
==============================================================================
An exception error has occurred. You can continue to use the program but should likely save your work and reboot program.

Access violation at address 0000000000765C54 in module 'bbw64.exe'. Read of address 0000000000000629.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Band-in-a-Box Version 2024 (1111)
Exception log with detailed tech info. Generated on 07/05/2024 17:39:29.
You may send it to the application vendor, helping them to understand what had happened.
Application title: Band-in-a-Box® - NONAME.SGU
Application file: D:\bb\bbw64.exe
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception class: EAccessViolation
Exception message: Access violation at address 0000000000765C54 in module 'bbw64.exe'. Read of address 0000000000000629.
Exception address: 0000000000765C54
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Main thread ID = 19168
Exception thread ID = 19168
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exception stack
Stack list, generated 07/05/2024 17:39:25
[0000000000765C54]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms11TCustomForm18SetAlphaBlendValueEh
[0000000001383888]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug18JclCreateStackListEbiPvbS0_
[0000000001383809]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug21DoExceptionStackTraceEPN6System7TObjectEPvbS3_
[0000000001385FD3]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug14DoExceptNotifyEPN6System7TObjectEPvbS3_
[0000000001373425]{bbw64.exe } JclHookExcept._ZN13Jclhookexcept13TNotifierItem8DoNotifyEPN6System7TObjectEPvbS4_
[000000000137366C]{bbw64.exe } JclHookExcept._ZN13Jclhookexcept14DoExceptNotifyEPN6System7TObjectEPvbS3_
[0000000001373827]{bbw64.exe } JclHookExcept._ZN13Jclhookexcept19HookedExceptObjProcEPN6System16TExceptionRecordE
[0000000000412649]{bbw64.exe } System._ZN6System23_DelphiExceptionHandlerEPNS_16TExceptionRecordEyPvS2_
[00007FFE4C91440F]{ntdll.dll } Unknown function at __chkstk
[00007FFE4C88E466]{ntdll.dll } Unknown function at RtlFindCharInUnicodeString
[00007FFE4C9133FE]{ntdll.dll } KiUserExceptionDispatcher
[0000000000765C54]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms11TCustomForm18SetAlphaBlendValueEh
[00000000011CE671]{bbw64.exe } unitSplashBB._ZN12Unitsplashbb9TSplashBB8setAlphaEh (Line 415, "unitSplashBB.pas" + 12)
[00000000011CEC6E]{bbw64.exe } unitSplashBB._ZN12Unitsplashbb9TSplashBB13callbackTimerEPN6System7TObjectE (Line 530, "unitSplashBB.pas" + 6)
[00000000006B77D2]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.ExtCtrls._ZN3Vcl8Extctrls6TTimer5TimerEv
[00000000006B75F8]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.ExtCtrls._ZN3Vcl8Extctrls6TTimer7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[0000000000536256]{bbw64.exe } System.Classes._ZN6System7Classes10StdWndProcEP6HWND__jyy
[00007FFE4C4B8961]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[00007FFE4C4B8421]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[00007FFE4C4A183C]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DialogBoxIndirectParamAorW
[00007FFE4C4A152B]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DialogBoxIndirectParamAorW
[00007FFE4C51B8C6]{user32.dll } SoftModalMessageBox
[00007FFE4C51A229]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DrawStateW
[00007FFE4C51B008]{user32.dll } MessageBoxTimeoutW
[00007FFE4C51B08E]{user32.dll } MessageBoxW
[000000000076C764]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication10MessageBoxEPKwS3_i
[000000000076C9CB]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication13ShowExceptionEPN6System8Sysutils9ExceptionE
[00000000013C0CC5]{bbw64.exe } W0._ZN2W011TBandWindow12AppExceptionEPN6System7TObjectEPNS1_8Sysutils9ExceptionE (Line 13167, "w0.pas" + 5)
[000000000076C58B]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication15HandleExceptionEPN6System7TObjectE
[00000000006B760F]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.ExtCtrls._ZN3Vcl8Extctrls6TTimer7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[0000000000536256]{bbw64.exe } System.Classes._ZN6System7Classes10StdWndProcEP6HWND__jyy
[00007FFE4C4B8961]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[00007FFE4C4B8421]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[000000000076BEF4]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication14ProcessMessageER6tagMSG
[000000000076BF68]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication13HandleMessageEv
[000000000076C3D4]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication3RunEv
[0000000001511550]{bbw64.exe } BBW64.initialization (Line 541, "BBW64.dpr" + 138)
[00007FFE4B7D257D]{KERNEL32.DLL} BaseThreadInitThunk
[00007FFE4C8CAA48]{ntdll.dll } RtlUserThreadStart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Call stack for main thread
Stack list, generated 07/05/2024 17:39:29
[00007FFE4C911274]{ntdll.dll } ZwGetContextThread
[0000000001383F49]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug17TJclStackInfoListC3EbiPvbS1_S1_
[00000000013838FB]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug18JclCreateStackListEbiPvbS0_S0_
[0000000001383A27]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug25JclCreateThreadStackTraceEby
[0000000001383AD6]{bbw64.exe } JclDebug._ZN8Jcldebug31JclCreateThreadStackTraceFromIDEbj
[00000000013899EC]{bbw64.exe } newexception._ZN12Newexception16TExceptionDialog12CreateReportEv (Line 448, "NewException.pas" + 18)
[0000000001389405]{bbw64.exe } newexception._ZN12Newexception16TExceptionDialog13CreateDetailsEv (Line 396, "NewException.pas" + 5)
[000000000138C3DD]{bbw64.exe } newexception._ZN12Newexception16TExceptionDialog15UMCreateDetailsERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE (Line 877, "NewException.pas" + 3)
[00000000004110E1]{bbw64.exe } System._ZN6System7TObject8DispatchEPv
[00000000005D53D6]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Controls._ZN3Vcl8Controls8TControl7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[00000000005DC287]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Controls._ZN3Vcl8Controls11TWinControl7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[000000000075DE20]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms11TCustomForm7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[00000000005DB4CC]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Controls._ZN3Vcl8Controls11TWinControl11MainWndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[0000000000536256]{bbw64.exe } System.Classes._ZN6System7Classes10StdWndProcEP6HWND__jyy
[00007FFE4C4B8961]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[00007FFE4C4B8421]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[000000000076BEF4]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication14ProcessMessageER6tagMSG
[000000000076BF68]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication13HandleMessageEv
[000000000076508A]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms11TCustomForm9ShowModalEv
[0000000001465ECE]{bbw64.exe } formsSPECIALBBW._ZN15Formsspecialbbw7TPTForm9ShowModalEv (Line 322, "formsSPECIALBBW.pas" + 4)
[000000000138C228]{bbw64.exe } newexception._ZN12Newexception16TExceptionDialog13ShowExceptionEPN6System7TObjectEPN8Jcldebug15TJclDebugThreadE (Line 867, "NewException.pas" + 32)
[000000000138AF32]{bbw64.exe } newexception._ZN12Newexception16TExceptionDialog16ExceptionHandlerEPN6System7TObjectEPNS1_8Sysutils9ExceptionE (Line 620, "NewException.pas" + 13)
[00000000013C0D05]{bbw64.exe } W0._ZN2W011TBandWindow12AppExceptionEPN6System7TObjectEPNS1_8Sysutils9ExceptionE (Line 13171, "w0.pas" + 9)
[000000000076C58B]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication15HandleExceptionEPN6System7TObjectE
[00000000006B760F]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.ExtCtrls._ZN3Vcl8Extctrls6TTimer7WndProcERN6Winapi8Messages8TMessageE
[0000000000536256]{bbw64.exe } System.Classes._ZN6System7Classes10StdWndProcEP6HWND__jyy
[00007FFE4C4B8961]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[00007FFE4C4B8421]{user32.dll } Unknown function at DispatchMessageW
[000000000076BEF4]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication14ProcessMessageER6tagMSG
[000000000076BF68]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication13HandleMessageEv
[000000000076C3D4]{bbw64.exe } Vcl.Forms._ZN3Vcl5Forms12TApplication3RunEv
[0000000001511550]{bbw64.exe } BBW64.initialization (Line 541, "BBW64.dpr" + 138)
[00007FFE4B7D257D]{KERNEL32.DLL} BaseThreadInitThunk
[00007FFE4C8CAA48]{ntdll.dll } RtlUserThreadStart
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System : Windows 11 Professional, Version: 10.0, Build: 0, ""
Processor: Intel, Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10885H CPU @ 2.40GHz, 2400 MHz MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 SSSE3 SSE41 SSE42 64 bits DEP
Memory: 32486; free 22643
Display : 1920x1080 pixels, 32 bpp
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
List of loaded modules:
[0000000000400000] D:\bb\bbw64.exe
2024.0.0.1111 - 2024.0.0.1111
Unit versioning information:
JCL\source\common $URL$ $Revision$ $Date$
[000000002AB30000] D:\bb\Data\libx64\lic0764.dll
<0000000000400000> 1.0.0.0 - 1.0.0.0
[000000002AF50000] D:\bb\Data\libx64\GP5.DLL
<0000000000400000> (no module version info)
[0000000030AC0000] D:\bb\Data\libx64\BBWRES2.DLL
<0000000000400000> (no module version info)
[000000003EF40000] C:\Program Files\Coyote\CoyoteWT\CoyoteWT.dll
<0000000180000000> 1.0.0.1 - 1, 0, 0, 1
CoyoteWT DLL
[0000000064740000] D:\bb\Data\libx64\libsndfile64bit.DLL
1.0.28.0 - 1.0.28.0
A library for reading and writing audio files.

Interesting. This might be related to the video driver or graphics card capabilities. It's related to setting transparency values on the form.

Sid.

there are many reasons for access violations. just google...'windows access violation'....including maybe malware.
I have no exceptions here...
(see my tips in the pg tips/tricks forum re buying a new pc or useing an existing pc for music production.)

i would be interested to see a pic of your win task manager to see running processes....this might offer clues..
do you have lots of other apps running at the same time as bb..?
eg the net and other apps ? are you running lots of apps that use lots of memory ?

the only way people can help you properly is to know info about your pc..such as the win task mgr pic being one.

also what sound interface are you useing ? behringer ? focusrite ? motu ? another brand ?

more info the better.

happiness.

om

I don't think this is related to the sound card, or audio device. I think this is a graphics related issue.

Peter will know more once analyzed.

We all definitely await feedback from the developers.

AudioTrack mentioned graphics and video. I wonder if the drivers for those are up-to-date, to go along with Windows updates. The two screens in the initial post just reference the calling program, but I was hoping there might be something else. The term ‘splash’ seems to occur in the logs and I’m wondering if that’s a reference to the splash screen, pointing as Trevor suggested to video/graphics.

OM’s suggestion to see what else is running (Task Manager) is a good suggestion.

AT.

with great respect there are lots of reasons for AV's...
from my experiences trying to help lots of people over the years with their rigs.
it might even be a memory corruption for example.

as my eyesight is still improving (happy lad..) am i correct in seeing on sids rig a lot of memory is used ?...and only a few gigs left ?

on my pc with bb open..out of 16 gigs memory approx only 2.2 are being used leaving lots of free memory.

ps...in asking for info on sound device
i'm just trying to get a rounded picture of sids rig.

happiness

om

ps thanks matt re tmgr....wish you the very best.

The only apps listed in task manager is Google Chrome and Adobe Acrobat. Stopping them doesn't help, neither does a reboot.

I use a simple USB to 3.5 mm jack audio interface, it uses a generic Windows driver.
Windows update does not find any driver updates.
Intel had a newer graphics driver, it didn't help.

> The developers have clearly lost control over their software and are unable to regain it.

Please refrain from insults And no, we haven’t lost control of our software.

Now that you’ve posted the log we can look into it, and hopefully will find a fix so you’ll be like the thousands of other BiaB customers that have no crash on bootup/

Sid.

have you read yet my tips in tips forum ?
and particularly point one..the link to latency mon ?.. which will assess the suitability of your pc for music production.
and will give clues re drivers.

also i would never use the 3.5 mm/usb set up.

more detail of what your needs are from your rig would help.
eg...do you want...
...recording ?
...playback of bb only ?
...midi ?

if your running a web browser like chrome...this tells me Likely this pc is on the net..is this the case....?
if so i still would like to see a pic of task mgr because i suspect other tasks are occuring in the background you might not be aware of.

bottom line...the major reason that pc users encounter probs doing music production on a pc is the pc hasnt been optimised for music creation....thus people get probs.

if you doubt me google 'optimising a pc for music production'..
and read my tips re importance of low dpc....plus various links
in my tips.
please note there is a wonderfull user community here full of people whove done it all from being novices to being very advanced with years of experience that can help you get set up correctly.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

I have a very simple setup in terms of hardware, and I'm not trying to do anything fancy. The crash happens when I start BIAB, not when I'm actually doing something with it.

My computer works for everything else I do.
Other audio programs, like Audacity and the Cakewalk DAW software work without any problems.

I bought BIAB because I couldn't find a quick and easy way to generate backing tracks in Cakewalk. That's the only thing I have used BIAB for, generating simple backing tracks to practice playing bass guitar. Why I would need any kind of optimization or specialized hardware for that is beyond me.

Transparency is used in several places in BIAB. It's used in the splash screen and also in the hints display and the track rename display:

The splash screen shows up okay, it goes away and then the Mixer shows up, followed by the access violation messages.

I don't notice anything missing in the display after the crash (but then again how would I know ?)

I can bring up the rename track display without problems. I have seen hints/tooltips several places without crash.

I have had acccess violation messages in the past but as BIAB worked fine I didn't get upset about it. If the program is working fine it's no more than a nuisance and it's not what i would call a crash. Getting aggressive about PG MUsic is a little over the top.

The only people who can actually diagnose and fix this is PG Music. They are aware of the issue, and hopefully will have a patch available soon.

Sid.

re why to optimise a pc for music production..

just because one app works ok doesnt mean another will... as different apps might use different aspects of the host os...in this case win.

in this case bb is doing things the other apps like cake arent.
cake doesnt do session musician track generation does it ?
and lots of other things that cake doesnt.
its like comparing different car brands. eg once i had a car needing lots of optimisation that was nothing but trouble but a mate had a toyota that was flawless and didnt need attention or optimisation.

for example ive lost count the number of times someone has said to me 'but my mate fred gets no probs with same apps...why me ?'.
the answer is there are many different pc configs...and set up many different ways.

Dr Pg is right ...thousands of users... bb works for them...the pg user showcase is testament to that with a ton of new songs posted each month that use pg software.

anyhoo thats it from me as its difficult to help without knowing certain aspects of someones pc..eg people helping you are like a doctor diagnosing a persons health problem as a result of a check up..
if you doubt me go on gearspace.com where thousands of studios large and small hang out and start a thread 'why do some people have problems with their pc's and other people dont useing the same music production apps'.

fyi a whole industry exists whereby custom pc's are built for recording studios by companies. such pc's are optimised for production work as some studios need to be assured of no day to day probs.
(see gearspace again mate.)....
ps..dont blame pg if they cant solve the prob.
its difficult often to offer solutions as each pc can be different....and set up many different ways. note my pc runs flawlessly.


happiness.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

For the crash on bootup issue, please post the following log file

1. First put a file called WriteBootupLog.txt in c:\bb\data (assuming your BB is in c:\bb). (if you prefer, select the checkbox edit-preferences- write a detailed bootup log).
2. Then reboot the program, and when it boots up, you’ll see a message offering to show you the log file.
3. Please post the log file here. The file is called c:\bb\data\bootuplog.txt. It will end before the crash but at least tells us when the crash occurred.

This thread has been an interesting exercise in terminology. About the only thing I am sure of is that calling this a crash on startup is not the real story. We have progressed all the way here before knowing what we needed to know to even begin to define the problem: The splash screen shows up okay, it goes away and then the Mixer shows up, followed by the access violation messages.

Yes, eventually we are getting more detail on exactly what is occurring. It's not really a "crash", as a crash is not recoverable from. A crash is terminal. It's an Access Violation warning produced by the O/S. It appears to occur after the program has initially started, but possibly before it has completed the entire startup sequence.

It would be interesting to see the WriteBootupLog.txt file.

Peter.

I might be wrong in my detective work and get egg on my face…lol…
but here's something interesting that might offer your support people clues.

if you notice from each of the 2 user logs posted…both seem to be using 10 gigs ram at idle…. a lot… whereas at idle with bb open i'm only using 2 gigs ram.

This leads me to suspect many other processes are IN FACT running and might be impacting.
eg the net…security software…antimalware other apps etc etc chewing up memory and other pc resources.
win resource and task managers will reveal the details.

if you doubt me google 'pc uses 10 gigs at idle.'
in the google results youll see lots of people posting about the same common topic on the net.
This leads me to suspect it might not be a pg problem.


ive seen this in the past helping people with their rigs….ie doing music production while running lots of other processes....and thus things go 'pear shaped' fast. its sorta like when i take a bath...if i fill it up too much it floods the floor and i have to do a clean up job...lol.


hth and happiness.

om

Assuming OM is on to something, what happens if you turn off the computer and then restart, running only BIAB?

And if that does not work, then I recommend installing and running Malwarebytes. You have only the built-in Windows Defender, which is good but may not be sufficient in this case to find malware residing on your computer.

It's been years since I did this, but isn't there a way to whitelist a program, or better yet, the whole /bb folder in any malware detecting software? I ask in case it's Windows Defender creating the access violation message.

Since the problem appears to be related to the splash screen, you can skip it entirely by doing the following:
1. open your Preferences folder (eg C:\bb\Preferences)
2. create a blank text file called NoSplashScreen.txt

Blake, that's what I thought, but in his last post he said it runs past the splash screen to load the mixer before he gets the access violation. Still, thanks for this tip.

That did it. Problem bypassed.

Great. Though I still don’t understand why, since you saw the mixer load.

Matt.

i agree. its all conjecture until both users post pics of task and resources win reports imho so we can see what is occurring with their pc's at a detailed level.
its tough to help people without this info.
dollars to doughnuts i bet loads of background processes are running...
gameing can even cause probs ive seen viz resources and impacting
the primary task of music production.

do me a favor would you to check my position that other running processes are impacting bb. ?

ie...google 'pc 10 gigs memory useage at idle'..and youll see many many people have the same issue as the 2 pg users in this thread.
this is a lot of memory usage.
lots of reasons for such occuring...

ive seen it too many times over the years...ie other processes
impacting music production...which is why many studios large and small includeing myself use another el cheapo eg refurb or used pc to do non music production tasks...eg taxes home stuff the net etc etc.

lets have a side bet..i suspect both users pc's are on the net running lots of security and net protection apps...maybe also running gaming apps ive seen in the past...?
maybe ill get egg on my face...lol.
so be it.

respect.

om 🇨🇦 🇬🇧

I was right all along when I wrote:

Mine wasn't a guess. I decoded the actual event from tracing the data in the Exception Stack.

I wonder if there's a published list of these 'Easter Egg' blank text files? Blake, can you please list them?

The exception handlers might not necessarily run in real-time sequential order. Other events can occur while the actual exception is still being processed in the background. Recall that all of this is handled in nano-seconds or probably much less. Writing events to a log file can take much longer than that, especially if the exception handler is threaded. The error reporting is simply doing its best to catch up.

That makes more sense. Thanks, Trevor.

> Mine wasn't a guess. I decoded the actual event from tracing the data in the Exception Stack.

Yes, good catch Trevor. Thanks.