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Hi
I have an old song of mine that was written in 4/4 time even though it was full of triplet eighth notes. I want to redo it in 6/8 time. Unfortunately, there are not many B & B Styles in 6/8 so they recommend using 4/4 triplet feel. Well... I've tried for 2 days to get a 4/4 triplet feel track to line up with the main beats of a vocal that was recorded in 6/8 at 65BPM. I've checked ChatGPT and been given all these different timings to use but always the 4/4 track plays slower than the original 6/8 in my DAW. I still want to use B & B style so I can add solos etc. but cannot get things to line up. My DAW is Studio One.
Has anyone ever been successful in adding 4/4 tracks to a 6/8 recording? If so, please let me know how to do it.
I have Time Stretch turned off on the tracks in my DAW. I'm recording from B&B at the same bit rate. I'm totally confused.
Paul
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Howdy Paul....
Have you tried to use 3/4 time vs 4/4?
Twice as many bars but may work.
Personally, I don't write waltz type time signatures but my buddy wrote one long go in 6/8.
I could find nothing usable.
I love BIAB but that's always been a minor annoyance to accept with such a fine program.
Hope that helps a bit.
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...........................................
I love BIAB but that's always been a minor annoyance to accept with such a fine program.
......................... It may be a minor annoyance for you but for those of us whom want to record something in other than 3/4/ or 4/4 it is a major problem, especially when one goes from BiaB to a DAW.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi. It's more than a minor annoyance. I can't believe B in a B just tell us to use 4/4 with a triplet feel! I don't think they've ever tried to actually do that. PITA!
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Howdy. My song is similar in form and sound to Billy Joel's Piano Man (of course - not as good!) I had a couple of different singers (found online) record it at 4/4 even though it's triplets all the way through. It never sounded right. So using EZKeys I got a decent 6/8 piano accompaniment and a drum track using 6/8 EZ Drummer and a bass using EZ Bass - thank God for those programs! But I really need a harmonica solo or some other instrument and I've always been able to do this using B in a Box if the song was 4/4 time.
I'm using the EZ programs more and more and B in a B hardly at all nowadays. Too bad.
Paul
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I wrote a tool years ago for this, it may be helpful. There are a few different calculators on the page, but I tried to describe what they do .. I *think the 3rd one down does what you want. I like math, but not in the middle of recording .. so I created this for quick dirty work. http://tools.masteringmatters.com//since your song is 6/8 I'd half the existing tempo and use 3/4 in the top two boxes .. then put 4/4 in the bottom box ; *should show the new 4/4 tempo once calculated steps - enter half the existing tempo in top box (if it is currently 132 tempo enter 66 .. 132 divided by 2 = 66) enter a 3 in second box enter a 4 in third box Click Calculate Solution shows under the 'new tempo' label I should write it so it does all the odd time sigs, but like I said it was a quickie project to save myself time.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Does the post below help? https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=735804#Post735804Extra information for the post... while BIAB doesn't accept tempos with a decimal point, Realband does. So although the above post was written with Cubase in mind, it's possible to do what's needed in Realband (if you have the Windows version of BIAB).
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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[quote=chulaivet1966].I It may be a minor annoyance for you but for those of us whom want to record something in other than 3/4/ or 4/4 it is a major problem, especially when one goes from BiaB to a DAW. Mornin' Mario and Paul.... I was intentionally gentle with my response because I know this has come up before and didn't want to come off as argumentative. I did not mean to diminish the 6/8 importance that others need for their creations. Forgive me, I did not mean to come across the way. I'm truly baffled as to why there isn't a lot more styles in 6/8. It's not like it's some cryptic time sig.. Sincerely. clv .
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 05/08/24 05:35 AM.
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[quote=chulaivet1966].I It may be a minor annoyance for you but for those of us whom want to record something in other than 3/4/ or 4/4 it is a major problem, especially when one goes from BiaB to a DAW. Mornin' Mario and Paul.... I was intentionally gentle with my response because I know this has come up before and didn't want to come off as argumentative.. I did not mean to diminish the 6/8 importance that others actually need for their creations. Forgive me, if I did come across the way. I'm truly baffled as to why there isn't a lot more styles in 6/8. Sincerely. clv . No problem my friend. BiaB is a fantastic piece of software but has some major problems. What is not a issue for one user is a major problem for another. This is the case for time signatures.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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[quote=chulaivet1966] No problem my friend. BiaB is a fantastic piece of software but has some major problems. What is not a issue for one user is a major problem for another. This is the case for time signatures. I hate being misinterpreted on forum responses.  *IIRC*....this topic goes back years and all I recall is some work-around being suggested by the BIAB team. So no, it's not a 'minor annoyance'....it's a determining one for many and I get that. I just didn't phrase my response with proper empathy. I"m old! We have some great forums here and I try to avoid creating any negative drama. Thanks for coming back Mario.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 05/08/24 05:51 AM.
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We have some great forums here and I try to avoid creating any negative drama. I on the other hand love "DRAMA". I have a special project I am working on. It is fully 6/8 vibe (currently Drum, Bass and Piano). And in my experience BIAB won't touch this song! No work arounds I can find to fit this into the box or the box into this. In fact, I would challange anyone to prove my wrong. I can provide my 6/8 backing in MIDI or Audio if some one feels they can add any RT soloist to this which would add something musical!
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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That seems like a pretty fair challenge.
Does it have to be BiaB or can it be done in RB?
Therein lies the real challenge .. one I may accept, one I will likely not ..
Last edited by rharv; 05/11/24 07:58 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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DrDan.
just a suggestion...
post the midi somewhere plus audio and indicate what rt instrument sound you want in your project ideally so people can have a crack at your problem useing pg software.
if the chord structure is complex with advanced extensions .might be a good idea to include the chords so people can see what they can do for you useing pg software and content.
i might have a go myself..once i finish ongoing song projects to see if i can succeed or fail the challenge.
happiness..
om🇨🇦 🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/10/24 03:15 PM.
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I have a special project I am working on. It is fully 6/8 vibe (currently Drum, Bass and Piano). And in my experience BIAB won't touch this song! No work arounds I can find to fit this into the box or the box into this. In fact, I would challange anyone to prove my wrong. I can provide my 6/8 backing in MIDI or Audio if some one feels they can add any RT soloist to this which would add something musical! It can be done, Dan. It's necessary to keep the ratio 2/3 (or 3/2, depending on which direction you are going in) handy so that you can calculate the tempo change needed to match 6/8 with 4/4. I explain it more fully at the following link. (It's kind of like stoichiometry but with BIAB rather than chemistry.) https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=735804#Post735804--Noel
Last edited by Noel96; 05/11/24 04:01 AM.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Definitely doable. In addition to changing the tempo by 2/3 you also need to reduce the chord durations by 1/2. Problem can be when you do the math on the tempo change and it comes up with a fraction, because you can't enter fractions for tempo in BIAB. I asked if there was a workaround for that back in 2018 and Floyd helped me out: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=491560#Post491560
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Oh boy, I didn't expect that. I guess I had forgotten how much we have spoken about this subject over the years, and the fact that there are some strong advocates for the 6/8 workarounds. I revisited the referenced links this morning and have now decided to withdrawn my challenge since the workaround has been detailed here in the forum in the past. In fact I took a little time to begin to go down that rabbit hole. I got as far as moving the chords which were written in EZK2 in Reaper, over to BIAB. I was immediately hit with the lack of accurate chord recognition in BIAB combined with the placement of chords. Every measure in BIAB had two measures of 6/8 (this was discussed by Noel in the reference thread). I could deal with it, but it did turn me off. So I stopped the effort. Fact is this current project is building well in Reaper using EZK, EZB, EZD and Kontakt. So I will acquiesce that the task is doable, however, don't want to waste anyone’s time forcing this square peg into a round hole. For those interested, here is a sneak peek at the 6/8 project. Vocals have not yet been entered. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rGRTiXHLpLdpPwNMnrFI75LJMEigm-J1/view?usp=sharingThanks to all for the input. Dan
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Dan, I really liked your song.
For any song other than 3/4 or 4/4 it is best to stay away from BiaB. Yes there are workarounds but they are a PITA and still not compatible with the outside world. In this day and age BiaB should be easily workable in all time signatures.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Could not agree more with you Mario. I have always wanted BIAB to play better with other music apps in order to bring the best of all music making things together (...compatible with the outside world, as you say).
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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BiaB can already make music in any time signature, except the n/8 where n is odd like (1/8, 3/8…)
Existing time signatures can include
1/4, 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/5, 6/4, 7/4…. 11/4 etc.
3/8, 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 also supported.
The thing that bugs people is that for time signatures higher than 4.4, like 5/4, 7/4 etc. we have a bar of 3/4 + 2/4. So you enter the bar of 7/4 over two bars instead of one. And in the case of 6/8 you enter two bars
On this discussion, people saying that we don’t have 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 time signature support is baffling to me.
For example, for 12/8. You can set the notation time signature to 12/8 and view 12/8 notation. And you can enter 3 chords per beat, which is 12 chords per bar. And more importantly, 100% of the styles, realtracks, realdrums work with these time signatures.
If you’re looking for something like 11/8 or 5/8, you’re correct in that we don’t support those yet.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Paul, You may have made a mistake in the DAW when you set the time signature. This is a common mistake.m 6/8 with triplet feel has three 8th notes per beat. So the DAW (e.g. Reaper) typically gives you two options. To either: For a triplet feel 6/8 song …. (Right!) - set 6/8 as a compound time signature with THREE 8th notes per beat, and you tap your foot every three 8th notes. . Or (Wrong!) - set 6/8 as TWO 8th notes per beat and you tap your foot every two 8th notes Here’s an example of a user post that has this problem. Note this doesn’t involve biab, it just within his DAW. And as a result of this mistake, he has two tempos for the same song. Since it is a triplet song, there is only one tempo, which is 53, and so the DAW considering it to be a tempo of 80 is simply wrong, and fixed by resetting the time signature to triplet feel (compound) 6/8. ‘I have a midi track in my DAW that is in 6/8 time. Tempo is set to quarter note = 80; i.e. dotted quarter note = 53” https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=735804#Post735804
Last edited by PeterGannon; 05/12/24 08:02 AM.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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