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Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810204 05/13/24 09:59 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	When you say “import”, you’re referring to BiaB interpreting the chords from a MIDI file correct? There weren’t chord symbols in it already somehow. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810206 05/13/24 10:12 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda D DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda	Hope this clarifies what my project was intended to do and what my findings currently are regarding 6/8. Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper! Ended.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810209 05/13/24 10:20 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda D DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda	Originally Posted by PeterGannon When you say “import”, you’re referring to BiaB interpreting the chords from a MIDI file correct? There weren’t chord symbols in it already somehow. Yes, that is correct. BIAB is interpreting the chords from the midi. So I don't expect the exact same naming. At this time I don't think there is a problem with the interpretation of the chords. My problem is the number of Bars. Which I think is due to the fact that BIAB has 12 beats/bar (2x 123,456) while everything else is 6 beats per bar (123,456). Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper! Ended.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810212 05/13/24 10:42 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	Dan, Biab is correctly reading and interpreting the .mid file. For example look at the first 4 bars in Biab and can we at least agree that these are correct? \| C \| G7sus \| C \| G7sus \| But then you say “the problem is that (in biab) I only have 49 bars, I should have 70”. But the chart you sent me (see below) representing the midi file has 93 bars of 6/8 which is 47 bars of 4/4. That matches what BiaB has determined (48 bars+appended ending , likely one extra due to a held note) Here is the chart. Do you see that there are 93 bars of 6/8, which is 47 bars of 4/4? Not 70? Where are you getting 70 from? Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) IMG_6836.jpeg (218.54 KB, 242 downloads) Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810215 05/13/24 10:57 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda D DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda	Got ya, yes the issue is becoming clearer. That is exactly the problem! Here is my Reaper paino Track lined upwith a BIAB RT. How do I fix this! Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper! Ended.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810216 05/13/24 11:01 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> 123,456 A tip on counting in the triplet based “compound” time signatures like 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 Don’t count 1-2-3, 4-5-6 For 6/8: count 1-and-a, 2-and-a, For 9/8: count 1-and-a, 2-and-a, 3-and-a For 12/8: count 1-and-a, 2-and-a, 3-and-a, 4-and-a By doing this you are counting where the numbers represent the tempo and is the same as counting in a 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4 meter. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810232 05/13/24 01:49 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,198 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 26,198 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Helpful! Perhaps an FAQ, or a post in Tips & Tricks? BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810236 05/13/24 02:26 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda D DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda	I found this enjoyable and enlightening on this topic. [img] [/img] Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper! Ended.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. DrDan #810241 05/13/24 04:37 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,547 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,547 Hamlin NY	Dan, that is exactly how I learned the difference between the time signatures. PS - I only missed two on the test so I am happy with and 80% rating! Inflation is so bad that CEOs are now playing miniature golf! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810244 05/13/24 06:10 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> I found this enjoyable and enlightening on this topic. There’s an interesting RealTracks tip about the relationship between 3/4 and 12/8 (or 6/8) styles. If you have a 4/4 style, and you want to add some 12/8 feel RealTracks or RealDrums to it: You can pick any relatively fast 3/4 (waltz) RT or RD, and set it to triple time. This will then play a bar of the rt waltz for every beat of the 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8 style, and play in sync with the other 4/4 instruments. ‘This is a practical example of using the relationship between 3/4 and 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8 styles. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. MarioD #810245 05/13/24 06:19 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,651 musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,651	If you stay in Biab and don't venture out into the real world you should be fine. If you want Biab to gen up tracks to fit with existing DAW time signature tracks, forget it. Originally Posted by musocity The BBPlugin is playing back 12/8 and syncing with the 12/8 notation, the audio is coming from the BBPlugin you can see as it's muted: Watch Video: BBPlugin-Playing-House-12-8-Notation.mp4 Originally Posted by musocity Here's a 12-8 that will match the DAW. The DAW is set to 12/8 84bpm and the VSTPlugin is set to 4/4 56bpm. These tracks were recorded in actual 12/8 84bpm so 4/4 56bpm will give original tempo, the bar display in the VSTPlugin will sync. You can try it with chord changes using Micro Chords. Watch Video: House-Style-Blues-12-8.mp4 Download: House_Style_Blues_12-8_84bpm_4-4_56bpm.rar unzip with WinRar or free https://www.7-zip.org/download.html The Rhythm track has all Major minor 7 9 dim There are only a few keys just to let you try it out B Bb A Originally Posted by musocity BBPlugin playing back in sync to DAW 5/4 notation Watch Video: BBPlugin-5-4-Time.mp4 Originally Posted by musocity And 7/4 synced notation: https://stash.reaper.fm/u/ReaTrak (Scripts for Biab Reaper) Open SGU in Reaper Instantly

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810250 05/13/24 07:11 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda D DrDan Veteran
DrDan Veteran D Joined: Dec 2002 Posts: 11,716 Wauconda	A very complex thread. Please allow me to attempt to summarize. This tread originated over here; https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=809584&page=1 The OP (Paul335smith) originally asked if “Has anyone ever been successful in adding 4/4 tracks to a 6/8 recording? If so, please let me know how to do it.” This question was timely for me since I had just started a project specifically to build a song in 6/8 in Reaper. I initially had no intention to use BIAB since I did not feel this would be successful. But Paul’s question caused me to take a turn in my project to add his “ask” to my “learning objectives”. Paul has gotten a lot of feedback specific to 6/8 work arounds in BIAB which have been historical here in the forum. So I attempted to do exactly what Paul had asked “Has anyone ever been successful in adding 4/4 tracks to a 6/8 recording? If so, please let me know how to do it.” So far I have not been able to do this (see below). Folks have indicated tempo changes are needed while others have said they are not! But no one could fully answer his question. Until now! “If you stay in Biab and don't venture out into the real world you should be fine. If you want Biab to gen up tracks to fit with existing DAW time signature tracks, forget it.” Musocity This is a concise statement and conclusion to what I felt Paul was asking for and I am trying to do. I felt I got close to showing how this can be done, but I hit a wall. I hope I have been clear in explaining where I am stuck in the process and that Peter is on board and looking into a solution or clarification. So perhaps, the jury is still out for me. But if Musocity is correct in his conclusion, this is a huge opportunity for PGM to remedy this situation. Bring BIAB out of the box and open it up for integration with other music apps which would allow exactly what Paul was asking for to be doable. Final Tour - Not with a Bang but with a wimper! Ended.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. musocity #810251 05/13/24 07:29 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,547 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,547 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted by musocity If you stay in Biab and don't venture out into the real world you should be fine. If you want Biab to gen up tracks to fit with existing DAW time signature tracks, forget it. I have been saying that for years! Inflation is so bad that CEOs are now playing miniature golf! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. MarioD #810257 05/13/24 09:31 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,651 musocity Veteran
musocity Veteran Joined: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,651	So if you create up a UserTrack in the real time signature and tempo you need, import it into Biab and set the master tempo for it so 1 bar of the time signature fits 1 bar of Biab, this will then generate up in Biab @ the pseudo tempo giving the actual tempo of the DAW with no stretching. If the UserTrack could have the actual real time signature rather than 3/4 4/4 ThisIsWaltz=False then Biab could show the actual tempo 12/8 84bpm rather than the pseudo tempo 4/4 56bpm https://stash.reaper.fm/u/ReaTrak (Scripts for Biab Reaper) Open SGU in Reaper Instantly

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810258 05/13/24 09:45 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> Folks have indicated tempo changes are needed while others have said they are not! But no one could fully answer his question. Until now! No, it is trivial to line up 4/4 and 12/8. Tempo changes are not required. A tempo 80 piece in 4/4 will line perfectly with a tempo 80 piece in 12/8 (compound time signature) A song at a tempo of 80 is the same exactly whether it is 4/4 or 12/8. Bach;s Jesu Joy of man’s desiring is the same tempo in 3/4 of or 9/8. In fact I posted a score of it higher in this thread where both time signatures are used interchangeably.for different voices of the same chart, The people who say differently haven’t correctly set their DAW to 12/8 (compound time signature), and have mistakenly set it to two 8th notes per beat instead of 3. So they get a wacky tempo for the 12/8 because they aren’t in 12/8 triplet (compound). Dan. My advice to you, is to render the files to audio, then you can make sure they don’t get messed with when you drag them from program to program. You will find that 32 bars of 4/4 at tempo 60 is a wave file of 128 seconds. And 32 bars of 12/8 at same tempo of 60 is a WAV file of 128 seconds. And then you need to ask yourself if you’re going to be able to line up two WAV files , both of 128 seconds. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810260 05/13/24 10:37 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> Biab could show the actual tempo 12/8 84bpm rather than the pseudo tempo 4/4 56bpm Musocity, I invite you to take the tempo/ time sig challenge. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=810259&#Post810259 Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810261 05/13/24 10:39 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> Mario: I have been saying that for years! I invite you to take the tempo/time sig challenge. Who knows, maybe we will all agree on something. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=810259&#Post810259 Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810262 05/13/24 10:42 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,488 Oregon jpettit Veteran
jpettit Veteran Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,488 Oregon	Might I suggest creating a table of time signature options for each signature supported in you BIAB help file, if not already there. Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810264 05/13/24 10:58 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> Folks have indicated tempo changes are needed while others have said they are not! But no one could fully answer his question. Until now! Dan, Indeed, let’s see if tempo changes are required. I invite you to take the tempo/time sig challenge. Who knows, maybe we will all agree on something. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=810259&#Post810259 One simple, lovely tune - Blueberry Hill. just measure the tempo. Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

Re: Using BIAB in various time signatures 5/4, 12/8, 6/8, 9/8, 11/4 etc. PeterGannon #810265 05/13/24 11:09 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656 PeterGannon OP PG Music Staff
OP PeterGannon PG Music Staff Joined: May 2000 Posts: 15,656	> Might I suggest creating a table of time signature options for each signature supported in you BIAB help file, if not already there. Here it is… (we will add this to the documentation) 1/4 = 3/8 2/4 = 6/8 3/4 = 9/8 4/4 = 12/8 (or two bars of 6/8) Have Fun! Peter Gannon PG Music Inc.

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