ok ive been looking at various vids of the ipad pro re creating songs... and sure its got lots going for it. very nice product.
but heres what im wrestling with...
for less than 1000 bucks i can have the following combo...
...for home studio music production a refurb off lease hp z or lenovo xeon workstation beast....total cost around 300 bucks. (thats not on the net so cant be contaminated). these workstation beasts can pound sand and for a long time have been used in studios and production houses and also i know of at least one daw dev thats used such. in summary lots of high end users. i saw a hp z beast tother day with 64 gigs ram and xeon for less than 300 bucks. ...a refurb under 200 bucks lenovo laptop for the net so the daw beast above doesnt ever get contaminated and also for say downloads of pg softwre and other daw software updates to feed the beast above...lol. ...AND a refurb macbook costing a few hundred bucks.
either lenovo or macbook for getting down song ideas down while one is on holiday and one is getting bored on the beach or say a song idea strikes at 3 am...which has happened many times to me.
it looks like for ipad pro plus magic keyboard i wouldnt get much change from 2000 bucks. note...this is being typed on an android tablet bonking with my fingers which i find is a pain after awhile and i prefer a physical keyboard. finger bonking gets old after a time ive found.
so im curious what others think about the conundrum. which is the better user value and cost benefit ???? anyone know the max track and plugin stats on new ipad pro assuming low cpu useage plugins ????...ie like dawbench at gearspace.com. (dawbench is an unbiased benchmarking utility...just google gearspace.)
yes the ipad pro is very cool with the m cpu...but i feel the refurb approach offers greater flexibility plus the user saves 1000 bucks the user could use for a nice interface and speakers and a couple of mics.
what are pg users opinions re this topic ????
happiness.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/28/2404:40 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
For making music or editing video, however, a recent issue Apple Silicon Mac will outperform for less. For most users, a PC will work fine but if you need high end graphics, that's going to cost you.
Since these are the BIAB boards, it should be pointed out that no tablets can run it. For Mac & PC, pretty much anything made in the last decade and a half can depending, often older.
thanks for your perspective. yes im aware of bb system requirements as well as the fact the ipad pro beats tablets. but then of course celphones are getting ever more powerfull processors....as another alternative in the future.
frankly i would love to know pg's perspective on the possibilty of running a bb version on the ipad at some point. because there is obviously market demand re creating songs on the ipad. people are creating songs currently on ipad....
eg would it have to be a vastly cut down bb version with less pg content for ipad ?
i also cant seem to find googling what the limitations are of the ipad re creating complex songs as well as track counts. Eg running logic versus other mac models. is it just a scratch pad ? or can one do very complex productions with it ? im just trying to understand why some creators are cranked up viz ipad..
finally as an alternative to ipad pro..for the user that doesnt want to use windows ever...for under 1k such a user could get a refurb macbook for mobility and say a refurb mac mini for home studio ? so why would such a creator use ipad ?
for example other day i saw a very nice inexpensive refurb macbook....and ive seen inexpensive mac minis.
happiness
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/29/2404:04 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
As far as I can tell the Ipad Pro can have up to 2tb of storage and 16gb of ram. The only big thing I noticed between Logic for Mac and IOS was the Ipad cannot use the Dolby Atmos since it does not support surround sound. I think Logic supports up to 1000 tracks of audio. I use PC and Mac both but I only have a generation 6 Ipad which the only thing I use it for is the Remote app for Studio One Pro and Logic Pro.
BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, iMac with Logic Pro 11
heres what im trying to understand is..ie apples marketing strategy.
if the ipad pro does it all doesnt this undercut sales of higher end macs ?? ...that m cpu is darn powerfull. so logically it leads me to ask will ipad pro and logic running on it be limited in some way so as not to impact higher end product sales ??
when the pc first came out years ago i was in tech and warned people working on old ultra expensive big iron systems the pc though initially limited in power would impact the sales of very expensive big computers....as pc got more powerfull i was laughed at...lol. so im wondering if history will repeat itself...ie the ever more powerfull small products impacting once again sales of and render obsolete very expensive gear.
what are the performance limits of ipad pro ?? im asking the above because from what ive seen so far for music production the pro is pretty impressive as well as pretty. my only concern being will current model be obsoleted by a new one next year ? this is why i like to buy refurbs...ie cost saveings.
to be fair to win and pc im not worried if my new win mini pc i love gets obsolete as it was 400 bucks....im doing a ton of song work on it daily with no hiccups or crashes...but much as i love what apple is doing 2000 bucks for a ipad pro isnt chump change. if one noticed awhile back mcity posted pics of el cheapo under 200 bucks or less older refurb mini pcs. a heck of a lot of music production work can still be done on them just trying to be fair. ....way back songs were done on less.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/30/2405:23 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Yes it very expensive on the other hand there is nothing out there that can touch it like Mike said. Apple says that Logic 2 for the IOS can rival big studio stuff. I have Rip X Daw stem splitter and it uses my GPU to help the performance. It takes about 6-7 minutes to do a 3 minute song. I watched the Ipad Pro do it in about 10 seconds it looked like. Mind blowing performance. Logic 2 works just the same except you have touch control instead. Also you have the advantage of being able to work on your music no matter where you are.
As far as something else come along that will make this model be "old news" more than likely as you said yourself. For a lot of us bedroom studio guys having fun playing and recording music we have tons more stuff than we ever need!!! My Desktop PC is far more powerful than my 2018 iMac. It does not have Apple Silicone since that was not invented till 2020 therefore I can't use the stem splitter & Chromaglow features. Logic Pro for $199 for life is a heck of a steal and I do love the new upgrade with the session players.
I guess what it boils down to is how much money do you want to spend and what is your requirements? As far as can tell the iPad Pro handle it and I am convinced it should be able to handle about anything you throw at it.
BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, iMac with Logic Pro 11
i just found a refurb mac mini useing m series silicon for about 700 bucks. other than the portability and touch features what performance features does the ipad pro offers over the less costly mac mini that would make anyone excited ?
ie...does ipad offer..
...more tracks ? ...abilityt o run more more resource needy plugins ? ...speedier mix downs ? ...lower latency ?
your ripx example is very intetesting and impressive.
im just trying to understand the cost benefit of the ipad pro re the mac mini. also other day i saw a nice macbook refurb for peanuts that would run logic.
also where does this leave the high end cheese grater ? im just trying to understand apple products marketing strategy.
im also interested to see how intel and amd respond to the lovely apple m series silicon threat...obviously their sales will be impacted if the market shifts in a large way to apple silicon.
i would love to know pg's position re ios....
...would it be a big re programming job ? ...what would be the real world daily advantages to pg users over useing win pc's ? faster response to the user ? Faster performance stats ? like your impressive ripx stat ? faster mix downs ?
very interesting times....now im gonna play on my light speed quark computer.lol.
happiness.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/30/2410:38 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
If you have not watched this video yet check it out. The iPad Pro starts about 10:00 min in and it does show the new Logic Pro as well. Very impressive. Apple Event Video
BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, iMac with Logic Pro 11
no arguments...the direction apple is taking is exciting. but i balance this with the concern over obsolescence.
also big picturing things the music biz has a big problem. an example will suffice...
ive heard amazeing songs in the pg user showcase that should be on commercial radio. then i listen to commercisl radio...and just shake my head at the sameness of a lot being played.
so i wonder how much should an aspiring very talented song creator spend on amazeing gear. bearing in mind the very big world of music consumers often dont hear the brilliant songs. many music consumers from my analysis also dont bother visiting music sites that creators upload their songs to.
then there is the issue (and even big name artists complain about it) thousands of listens by consumers of music is lucky to pay for a meal out for the creators.
thus i feel the sales of excellent products like the ipad pro and other recording gear would be a lot higher if the creators were actually making a little money.
frankly i dont know what the solution is.as i said the music biz is not in a healthy state for creators imho.
but those ipads are the bees knees. i agree.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/30/2405:19 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
I certainly cannot predict the future of music but I do know that you do not have to believe the hype that if you have this piece of gear or software it will be able to record great music. I have seen people record a multitrack song with only a iphone and sounded great. It's not the gear that records a nice recording as even the most cheap stuff out now days is far higher end that what I started with.
BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, iMac with Logic Pro 11
ok ive been doing tons of googling and searching to find out max track and plugin counts assuming low cpu use plugins for various mac models...and its darn difficult to find info. for example on pc a utility called dawbench is usefull. (google).
i really wish for music producers that apple posted for each model the above info useing a standard benchmark song....so buyers can compare.
all ive been able to glean so far is one comment that a lower mac mini could play back 52 tracks with some plugins ? whereas another google i came across said a mac mini m2 pro did 231 tracks playback....apparently from what ive read the latter will pound sand and is great for music production.
so what is better for the bucks that provides the highest track and plugin counts ? ipad pro ? or mac mini m2 pro ? they are in a similar price range. the mac mini m2 pro is clocking in around 1600 bucks ? from what i see on amazon.
i gotta hand it to apple...they are doing very very exciting things.
but i gotta say to be fair..my mini pc that cost 400 buvks with m2 and 16 gigs..realband reports over 200 tracks capability. which is way more than i would ever need....
if anyone has more info re track and plugin stats for various mac models they are useing...please post them.
particularly im haveing problems finding out how far the new nice ipad pro can be 'pushed'...
exciting times.
lets not forget a possoble spoiler in the market...and i know some will say im nuts...but lets not forget the humble 100 buck pi that some people can now run traction eaveform and reaper daws and other software on. the pi cpu has just been upgraded and i reckon one more upgrade with a faster processor and thus things could get very interesting for musos looking for a very inexpensive music production platform....time will tell.
rock on.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/31/2405:48 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
A single project supports 1,000 stereo audio tracks, 1,000 instrument tracks, and 1,000 auxiliary tracks, with up to 12 sends per channel strip. Grab the plugin and drag it to a lower slot to make room for a plugin to be inserted before it! If you keep moving it down a slot you can effectively expand the available slots on the channels to their maximum of sixteen! Roundtrip compatibility: Easily move your Logic Pro projects between Mac and iPad to create in the studio or out on the road
One thing to note about Logic Pro for iPad is only available as a monthly subscription for $4.99 or a yearly subscription for $49. Unlike Logic Pro for Mac which is $199 for life.
Last edited by Brian Hughes; 05/31/2410:51 AM.
BIAB 2024 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, iMac with Logic Pro 11
the stats in your first para 1000 etc. is that theoretical ? or real life ?
if people have achieved in real life those stats then that is amazeing. i could see maybe the cheese grater ? but an ipad ? or mac mini ?
if a ipad pro or mac mini m2 pro then that knocks my socks off cos according to one tester he got 231 tracks with a mac mini m2 pro.
thanks for your insights as i always keep an open mind. if those stats are right just imagine where things will stand in 10 years with even faster internal architectures.
now...lol...i'll go back to my 30 track new song project... which is typically the max number of tracks i do eg songs in my sig.
happiness.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/31/2412:32 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
..due to my vision i cant abide small screens...have to use biggie screens....i guess big screen via lightning ? ..i use bb/realband combo to create songs... so i would lose a lot of functions and pg content much as i am impressed what apple is doing. ..concerns expressed by some users. ive been reading re expandability...ports...and file transfers and other aspects other than cost. of course....gonna do more digging.
note i dont need portability.
dont get me wrong its a lovely product...but the more i dig...the more im finding out some disadvantages. reported by testers and users. its a very closed platform.
i suspect there will be more reiterations of the product to get more users on side. right now i think the 'deal' seems to be a refurb mac mini m2 with logic.for 700 bucks it would seem.
half time borussia d. 0...real m ...0
borussia had some great chsnces..
happiness.
om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
the stats in your first para 1000 etc. is that theoretical ? or real life ?
That was possible on a 2017 10 core iMac Pro with 32GB RAM—a number of videos out at the time and all stopped at 1,000. The reason no one posts those numbers anymore is because the max number of tracks is so high that the numbers no longer make sense. My iMac Pros were 14 Core/2TB and 18 Core/4TB with 128GB RAM. All the hype over the M series Macs is around Video, AV and VR. Audio is not an issue anymore.
My M2 Studio Ultra has 196GB Unified (integrated) RAM plus 8TB on board with another 16TB of storage over Thunderbolt. A 5K monitor plus another pair of 4K monitors and I still try to keep the number of screens open at any one time organized.
Problem is fitting all of that power on a 13" screen with one external monitor — those are the M4 iPad Pro's only real limitations. I am flat out uninterested. I make a good part of my living on a 2017 iPad Pro 2nd gen that I use live — but all heavy lifting is done on my M2 Studio.
Think about it: If you have to get 50 people from one place to another, which is better — the fastest sports car in the world or a bus?
thanks for your input. kudos to you as ive been trying to get a handle on real life stats and trying to understand performance limitations of various mac models. imho apple is doing some very VERY exciting things.
let me say i would never do 1000 tracks...its just that its nice to know the power reserves are there...i only do max 30 to 40 tracks in a song...as i figure..if the abbey//martin//beatwells combo could produce such great songs within the restriction of only a few tracks...eg studer b67 mtr's.or scullys or ampex...whatever. then im in luxury with 30/40. my goodness now realband has 256 tracks and my humble new ryzen mini will do over 200 rb reports. so we are spoilt by comparison.
i never allow myself to use a ton of tracks because one can often lose control and also one gets into a never ending cycle of not finishing a song as one is seduced by thinking 'oooh maybe one more track will take this song to the next level'. in addition an old big studio sage once said to me 'dont be seduced by track counts...if the song is a good song it will be apparent within a few tracks.'ive learnt this the hard way.
talking of big studios i'll share something with you...one of the reasons i try to help new pg users on these forums is years ago i was helped greatly by people in big studios with both mac and pc that didnt want one cent from me....the help i was given was amazing. as a result i promised i would always 'pay it forward'. these people were very well situated in life and schooled me on various aspects of writing songs/technical aspects/and the music biz in general. (i mention this cos i suspect some users might wonder why i try to help people....'oh its that fool OM again...lol.)) these pg forums are the only place on the net im on frankly, as i find the net pretty crrrrraaaazzzzyyyy...lol. the latter being the reason my production computer never sees the net so it cant be compromised.
also let me say...and maybe some will say i'm cheap but i have various family responsibilities.so i purposely restrict my 'haveing fun with songs' budget. why i have this innate urge to create songs is crazy...maybe its cos my family has always been a music family. other reason i restrict my budget is one hears of musos for a zillion stream plays on the net getting income that is peanuts. so one does what one can do...ie with songs i do the best i can with each and hope that some other people in the world maybe like them.
mike...i'm a loooong time win users...not particularly cos i'm an uber fan...but the reason being ive done a ton of songs on el cheapo refurb pc's costing only a few hundred bucks. the market is flooded with off lease great cheap win refurb workstations....with nice xeon processors...the latter one would typically find in production houses running both mac and pc often eg hp z series or lenovo monsters.
but what apple is doing is a lovely game changer imho... frankly i wish realband was on mac. cos ive developed various trick useing its features .
once again mike thanks for the info...much appreciated.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 06/06/2403:26 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
I stopped using Apple after the 1st Macintosh arrived I'd been pretty happy with a 2E at that stage I moved to recording with a 4track cassette machine & with a special MIDI cart using a Commodore 64.
The long haul from the Mac to the iMacs, (a bloody disaster with no removable storage media), and on to stable sensible systems was too long for me to bother with. I had to use them at work so knew well enough they'd not do for home use.
I do need a real video card for my video making computer as it gets slow after about six layers, (not enough RAM for vid to keep up without regenerating after every single tweak), but on the audio side my PC was built with DAW work in mind so has the necessary grunt.
Mind you I managed some good recording quality with a Microsoft 286 set up, ( ), with an INCA card & breakout box. I still have the gear but it runs with nothing beyond W2000.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
you should get that song to commercial radio....its catchy.
as to mac n pc each platform hss its plusses and minuses of course.
although i like the exciting direction apple is takeing ..i think they would vastly increase their user base if...
1..they could find some way to address pricing with a view to produce products for musos with very very limited budgets. i just cant justify a 1 to 2 k mac when my new mini ryzen cost 400 bucks....and has surprised me to no end. itsvery fast. also i suspect this would address competition from refurb el cheapo Pc's like i used for years.
2..offer apple users an upgrade path at modest cost.
notwithstanding above...apple is doing some exciting things to be fair.
happiness
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 06/07/2405:12 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
so i visited a huge computer store that carries all manner of pc and mac gear...and tried the ipad pro and other mac models and i gotta say very impressive. i know some here might think im biased towards pc but really im. not.
i follow what we used to say in tech marketing...ie... ACE.. as in to sell a tech product in volume and be very successfull doing so... it must be...
Accessible Cheap and .. Exciting eg a disruptor in the market.
ie...youve ACED IT !
frankly i came away very impressed with the macs. but what confused me was i saw a v nice macbook that was cheaper than the ipad which made me go wow.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 06/11/2403:08 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
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