PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Drum Stems can't be heard on new song [PG: bug reported]

"justanoldmuso"
https://file.io/oN8zqfZBLcPl

Here you go pal, the SGU you requested.

As you mentioned, I soloed some of the rd stems, whacked the volume in the mixer to max, (or is there another way to increase the level of an instrument?) and still can't hear anything. You're right though, some of the drums have been recorded a bit quiet.

Once I've got everything working as it should, I'll look into to your cool tips in more depth, they've certainly peaked my interest😉

drone.

thanks... im doing things this morning with my wife... but will test sgu later.

heres my position...ive gone back over possible stem probs again...
and found there is level on the low tracks as realband shows me on its playback meters the level.

i suspect the recording studio engr recording the rd stems decides what fits best with the style..

please confirm which americana style gives probs mate.
type it in CAPITALS please....and ill test.

fyi...a joke on me...when i sang once in a band in uk...could see nnothing...cos took specs off for the wild image.
we were kinda bonkers back then..crazy fun times...lol

om. 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

😄, yeah, you gotta look cool for the show. Remember Buddy Holly wore glasses, the fans still loved him.

I've got a few things to do myself, and then I'll check the RD styles, thanks

I just listened to your 'Pretty Girl' song, very professional sounding, Your vocals sound great and clear. I can hear every word. It's certainly got that British vibe. Sounds well mixed👍 the second song sounds very much like Syd Barrett from Pink Floyd, RIP.

drone...

1..thanks for the listens.

i'll share a secret with you...if you listen closely to the pretty girl song which is basically about
my wifes kindness always....my vocal cracks a bit towards song end with positive emotion.
i purposely left it in because i feel its nice to show emotion in songs sometimes.
keeps it real life....actually tears welled up in me when i recorded the vocals cos why she chose this crazy rocker bloke...i dunno..lol....she says she was slightly tipsy at the time.
(btw...ive had many likes from women on my scloud re the song.).

as to the rock song...stallion...my 'thing' is doing songs with many different vocal styles
for the challenge of it. i once even sang opera...lol.
the rocker stallion is my evil twin rocker side or jekyll and hyde coming out....lmao.
different voc style cos thats what the song called for. for me its all about haveing lots of fun.
fyi...all songs in my sig used nothing else but pg products includeing pg's suite of fx plugins.
no other products. this way i keep focused...instead of haveing too many choices....and getting nothing done.

i just do the best i can...and hope others like it...then its on to the next song.
although i have picked up various tips in pro studios over the years i dont profess to be an ace pro
audio engr. my thing is singer/songwriter....thanks again for the listens.

2..your sgu.

thanks got it.
heres my comments...

..PLEASE CONFIRM !! the real drum your useing is CAJON FOLK 16ths ? for seth4 which is seth style default rd.?...if so in my rd picker it shows NO STEMS...for cajon.
..OR your SGU looks like its actually useing AMERICANA 16 th BRUSH SYNC FRED ?
please confirm....in this case there are 7 stems all which genned here fine in rb AND i can see 7
led track meters blinking. however TOM FLOOR AND RACK ARE LOW IN LEVEL BUT STILL I GET LED METER LIT.

please get back to me with confirmation of which rd is used.
i love detective work...lmao...its fun.

happiness

om

"justanoldmuso"

IF YOU'RE STRUGGLING TO READ TEXT, JUST ZOOM IN WITH YOUR TABLET, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ZOOM ANY WEB PAGE WITH EASE

AFTER EACH DRUM CHANGE I GENERATED.

OK, THE RD STYLE I USE FOR THIS SONG IS:

'AMERICANA16THSBRUSHSYNCFRED'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX.

IN THE MIXER, THE NAME CHANGED TO KICK, I PLAYED THE SONG, IT SOUNDED NO DIFFERENT FROM WHEN I CHECKED THE MIX STEM BOX. THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGED WAS THE MIX TRACK NAME.

I ALSO USED A FEW MORE RD STYLES AT RANDOM:

'CUBANCASCARAWES'

WITH THIS RD STYLE, I CHECKED ALL THE BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX

THE DRUM MIX TRACKS NAME CHANGED TO 'KICK IN'
BUT NOTHING IS HEARD, EVEN FROM ALL THE OTHER DRUM TRACKS.

'FUNKROCK70SPERK'

WITH THIS RD, I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT FOR THE MIX BOX.

THE DRUM MIX TRACKS NAME CHANGED TO 'KICKIN'
AGAIN, NOTHING CAN BE HEARD FROM ANY OF THE DRUM STEMS.

'FUNKSYNC16THSPERK'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES, INCLUDING THE MIX BOX.

ONLY THE MIX TRACK CAN BE HEARD, NO SOUND COMING FROM THE OTHER STEMS.

'FUSIONALEXFASTPERK'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX.

THE DRUM MIX TRACK'S NAME CHANGED TO KICK,
THERE'S NO SOUND FROM ANY DRUM TRACK.

THE PROBLEM IS THE SONG STYLE YOU HAVE SELECTED NOT THE RD STYLES.

YOU USE "_SET4TH.STY" - CHANGE THIS TO ANYTHING ELSE AND REPEAT THE TRAILS. I AM BETTING THAT WILL WORK.

AM I WRONG?

Hang on a moment, drDan, I think you're onto something.

I chose a different style at random. Changed all the instruments to how I had them and it works. All the stems are playing as they should without any problems at all. I think you've cracked it 😉🎶🎵. Happy daze. I will knock on wood though just in case I'm getting ahead of myself, but it's looking good so far. I'll post back here if I have more problems with the stems.
Thank you both for being so patient and helpful.
You guys are awesome.

I used RD AMERICANA 16 th BRUSH SYNC FRED.

Hey listen, your songs are fantastic, much better than what I can do. You have a great voice for it. It's amazing how you only used PG, but it's not surprising, those RealTrack do sound wicked.

Did you use any fx whilst recording your voice or did you record dry and then add fx like compression etc?

Recording vocals is a real pain atm, I've got a lot of interference being picked up by the mic. Everything is grounded properly, I think it's coming from all the electrics I have around the computer.
When I record in Cubase, where there should be silence, there's a thick line of interference. It's very off-putting.

I don't have a SoundCloud account yet, I'll sign up soon and give you some more likes😉

I'm buzzing the stem prob seems sorted. Thank you for the help, you guys are awesome.

There is a bug in that style.
It calls a Cajon Drum [multi] for DR of which there is no clear core drum.
Playing with the style reveals a CajonFolk16th Drum (it supposed to change minor style in a vs b part, also (No stems)
Replacing it with a stem-based drums will produce no stems.
Probably a bug with Multi drums being replaced in a style.

That's precisely the issue here. I'll report it to the developers, thanks all!

The workaround for this in the meantime is to either start from a different but similar style and change the Realtracks to what you want, or start from a blank style and add the Realtracks you want.

some more info.
(btw @ drone...on tablet i max out mag n still get probs with v small text)

1..as i said before...im going thru all rd with stems....im half way thru.
i was skiving off today with my wife...but now ill get back to testing.
heres something interesting tho...in all my testing so far the only style with stems i had probs with was a bossa style with stems.
AND...some added info...
2..in all the years useing pg apps ive done a zillion substitutions in styles to replace a styles drum and instrumentation ie real tracks and real drums....in fact...my standard method for ages is....after laying out the chord sheet...on a serious song i go thru all of the thousands of pg session muso content and replace the styles standard content with new rt's and rd's..
in fact with a serious song i set up a special test bed environment.

i do this serious work and detailed in depth testing because ive found over the years if i keep just to the styles standard instruments i miss some really neat sounds in other rt's and rd's that will elevate the song....for example in the pretty girl song i went thru hours of testing to find that tremelo rt i used. its like panning for gold...lol.
i did the same with the other songs...lots of work to meet the vision i have for a song. in summary i do a ton of testing of replacing a styles content with new pg content...
thus im baffled why some might have a problem subbing a styles standard content with new content.
Worst case ive maybe had a very few hiccups but nothing that irritated me.

i would be interested to hear from pg why certain stems are low in level...it doesnt seem to be dominant mics but im finding often its room mics...and other stems.

anyhoo...more testing to do....ill post back any problematic stem rd's
if i find such.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

(I'M NOT SHOUTING, I'M USING CAPS FOR OUR FRIEND WITH IMPAIRED VISION😉)

THERE'S DEFINITELY A BUG, AND I THINK IT'S WITH MORE THAN ONE STYLE.

LAST NIGHT I STARTED A FRESH SONG FROM SCRATCH.
CHOSE A RANDOM STYLE: _FLOWING.STY


THIS MORNING I LOADED THE SONG AND NOTICED THAT THE MELODY TRACK HAD CHANGED COLOUR TO ORANGE, AND THE MELODY TRACK NAME HAD CHANGED TO: 'ARTIST' AND THE DESCRIPTION HAD CHANGED TO: 'STEREO 32-BIT'
ANYWAY, I DISMISSED IT AND CARRIED ON.


I THEN TRIED TO CHANGE THE RD STYLE TO ONE WITH STEMS.
I CHOSE: AMERICANA 16 GROOVIN BRUSH FRED.

I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES, INCLUDING THE MIX BOX

SOMETHING VERY STRANGE HAPPENED.
INSTEAD OF ANY MUSIC AND DRUMS PLAYING, THERE WAS NO MUSIC PLAYING AT ALL FROM ANY TRACK. THERE WAS ONLY A STATIC-LIKE BUZZING NOISE AS IF THE SAMPLE RATE WAS DIFFERENT TO MY AUDIO DEVICE. BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE SAMPLE RATE HASN'T CHANGED.

(IS THERE A WAY TO MANUALLY CHANGE THE SAMPLE RATE INSIDE BIAB, OR IS IT DONE AUTOMATICALLY WHEN I CHANGE IT IN THE ASIO CONTROL PANEL?)

ANYWAY, I RELOADED THE SAVE THEN CHANGED THE DRUMS TO A RANDOM RD STYLE: SOUL 60s SLOW 128

I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES INCLUDING THE MIX BOX

THE SONG PLAYED OK BUT EVEN THOUGH ALL THE STEMS WERE SHOWING IN THE MIXER, THE DRUMS HADN'T CHANGED, IT JUST PLAYED THE DRUMS THAT CAME WITH THE STYLE _FLOWING.STY I ORIGINALLY CHOSE.

I THOUGHT THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE RD I CHOSE HAVING A MUCH LOWER TEMPO THAN MY SONG,
SO I CHANGED THE DRUMS TO ONE WITH A SIMILAR TEMPO TO MY SONG. I CHOSE: SOUL ROCK 70s EV
EVEN THOUGH THE TRACK NAMES HAD CHANGED AND THE STEMS WERE SHOWING IN THE MIXER. THE DRUMS PLAYING WERE THE ONES THAT CAME WITH THE ORIGINAL STYLE I CHOSE: _FLOWING.STY.

IS THERE A WAY TO SELECT ONLY STYLES THAT ARE COMPATIBLE WITH STEMS?

DRONE13.
(note mate im fine with the text in these brackets...ie non caps thanks to the great eye
doctors...it was just that one yellowed graphic gave me probs even with magnification...
no biggie...onwards and upwards...lets get to it.)

****ADDENDUM (after my breakfast)...****

DRONE...VERY IMPORTANT.
RE YOUR SGU YOU SENT ME.

1...when i look at the chords window i noticed the red square around first bar.
so i went to f5 to check your settings and lo and behold it looks like you have muted
tracks till bar 17. ..
2...in realband i unmuted after loading in your sgu et voila....and useing FLOWING style
on your chord sheet. i tested with RD >>>>AMERICAN 16 BRUSH FRED.

flowing has a nice trem guitar sound right ??

3...i'll tell you what...
send me A LIST OF WHAT RT's AND RD and TEMPO you would prefer...and i'll make any amendments to your sgu here...
AND then i'll load up temporary on scloud the mixed ruff song idea for your listening
and critique..if all ok for you...then i'll send amended sgu back to you and delete the mix from scloud...fair enough mate ????
this way i can test all. tell me if FLOWING style is ok to use.
you like that one with the tremelo guitar <<<nice !!..?

****BEFORE BREAKFAST TESTS...MY COMMENTS FOR YOU...****

1..RD's..i tested ALL rd's youve mentioned in this thread including recent ones.
heres my comments
...all generated fine here...heres the list i tested.
...AMERICANA16BRUSHSYNCFRED.....AMERICAN16GROOVINBRUSHFRED.....CUBANCASCARAWES.....
FUNKROCK70SPERC.....FUNKSYNC16THSPERC.....FUSIONALEXFASTPERC...
...the only probs i found was in some cases low audio levels...BUT ALL LED's ALWAYS LIT...
but some at a low level. I DO FEEL THESE WERE DECISIONS PROLLY MADE BY THE AUDIO ENGR
in the studio depending on music genre. only pg can confirm how recorded.
...now to the low levels...
...first one...all good cept low level tom floor and rack.
...third one ie cuban...overhead and tom floor low.
...fifth one ie funksync...tom rack low level.
...last one fusion alex...quite a few mics low...
snare bottom//hhat//tom 1 n 2 n 5//overhead room left.
IN CONCLUSION...ALL GENNED FINE...ALL LEDs displayed...cept some low levels per above.
in all cases i had all stems ticked and mix unticked which ALSO UNTICKED ALL STEMS...
BUT BIG NOTE...ALL STEMS REMAINED TICKED...<<<<<<<<<this is important before clicking ok....
check all stem boxes are ticked and mix unticked.
ps...in rd picker is an option to only show drums with stems.
click settings...tick bottom box.

2..PROBLEM STYLES.
done...see addendum etc.

3..ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE.

try the following...
...unplug each piece of audio gear until you get no interference.
ie process of elimination.
...ensure in your studio that different gear isnt plugged into many different outlets.
this can lead to problems. for example here i have a surge protected TOWER BAR with lots of
outlets. this is plugged into only one room outlet. MAKE SURE YOU DONT OVER LOAD THE ONE OUTLET
OTHERWISE THIS WILL TRIGGER A BREAKER PROLLY.
IF IN DOUBT GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN TO MEASURE THE CURRENT DRAW IN RELATION TO HOUSE OUTLET.
HOW MANY PIECES OF GEAR DO YOU HAVE FOR RECORDING ??
THAT YOUR PLUGGING IN ?? their spec sheets should show current draw.
...check articles on the net re interference in recording studios.
ONCE AGAIN IF SLIGHTEST DOUBT GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN...maybe a noise suppressor is
needed or a special studio power line conditioner in your case.

eg....reference articles...

https://www.recordingmag.com/resources/recording-info/for-your-studio/an-ounce-of-cure/#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20you%20actually,system%20is%20called%20'star%20grounding.

just google 'grounding problems and interference in recording studios.'.

now im off for my wifes loverly big english breakfast. actually its a cut down version...lol...cos the doctors
tell me saturated fats arent good for me.

happiness....and hth.
ps...yes pretty girl is about my kind and ever patient with me wife to answer your scloud comment...thanks.

om

Alf, Thanks for the noise interference tips, this has been bugging me for a long time.
I only have a condenser mic, guitar, MIDI controller. If I'm recording vocals, I unplug the guitar. There are other electrical things like hard drives etc that need to be moved when I remember to grab some longer leads, I'm a bit of a scatterbrain and quite forgetful.

Hey, I don't want you going out of your way and spending too much of your precious time on my problems, but if you insist, go for it😉 Big thanks.

I don't see this red square you mention. There is a red line though, is that what you mean?

I'm thinking I sent you the wrong SGU.
The only time I used the FLOWING style was to test the RD stems on a fresh song. My Bad 😵

Sorry about that, here try this one:
https://file.io/pyI4iuzhnJpa

The song name should be: Running Through The Streets
And the style named: SET4TH.STY (though I've added & replaced instruments)

And the instruments I chose should be:

BASS: 1825, Pop Modern Groove Held

PIANO 1 (I changed the name of this, to me, it's more of a piano than a bass): 3957, Bass Synth, Drama Piano Octaves

PIANO 2: 4316, Gospel Funk Trem
BANJO: 3413, Finger Picking, Folk
Vocal Oohs & Aahs: 2975, Pop3-Part
Guitar 1: 4021, Mod Country Ballad Power 1
Guitar 2: 4022, Mod Country Ballad Power 2
SAX 1: 2296, Tenor, Slow Pop
SAX 2: 587, Tenor, 2-Beat Rock
ORGAN: 688, B3, Background Pop
ACOUSTIC GUITAR 1: 702, Strumming Spirited
ACOUSTIC GUITAR 2: 1761, Strumming Pop
SYNTH PAD: 1840, Pop Modern Groove Mellow (this one is muted for now)

REAL DRUMS: Americana 16ths Brush Sync Fred


Just use whatever instruments that are already there, I'm not sure which direction I'm heading at the moment with this song, I may change some instruments later on, I dunno.

I appreciate this, Alf, thanks

dRoNe13
Did you not notice that the bug in SET4TH.STY has been noted by PGM and will be fixed.

drone..
please see my pm also...
im well on the way with a ruff demo of your song
all 15 tracks generated including drums useing FOLLOW style...for testing purposes ...
75 bpm.

note...editing and finessing n edits n section mutes to be done.
i didnt change your chords but started afresh in rb...no biggie.
same arrangement.
if you want ill post to my scloud sccount for you to listen n then ill delete...its a bit busy...so youll have to advise me further viz production.
Its loads of fun....im gonna test out now with somepg fx on some tracks.
worst case youll be able to hear what works n dont n advise me further.

ADDENDUM

did a bit of mixing...excited...got a PINK FLOYD vibe going..its cranking me up.
i really like FOLLOW style for this mate...
im ready to upload mp3 for your listen.

hth

om🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

The issue is specifically with styles that use MultiDrums - these styles are VERY uncommon (roughly 3% of ALL styles). It's quite possible you just haven't stumbled across one yet. I'm going to mark this thread as Resolved, as we are aware of the bug and are working to resolve it - it's in our database with the tracking number 3175.

Stems are completely unprocessed - no EQ or compression or anything, to allow BIAB users to apply their own processing - so you're getting exactly what each mic picked up. There are different ways of recording drums, so depending on who did the initial recording the levels can be different.

Did you render a WAV file of your song and save it in the same directory with the same file name? If so, change the name of the WAV file to something else. BIAB automatically loads WAV files with the same name onto the Melody track, which turns it orange exactly how you're describing.

BIAB generally follows whatever the sound card is set to, however with ASIO it will be locked to 44,100hz.

Did you re-generate the song? Or were the drums frozen? Choosing a different Realdrum does not usually force regeneration.

All styles should be "compatible" with stems - the initial issue with stems was specific to styles with MultiDrums, which is an issue we're working on, and the other issues you've reported in this thread are unrelated to stems.

I use one of those inexpensive "Kill a Watt" things, it'll read out the volts/amps/watts being used by whatever's plugged into it.

Making me jealous there mate!

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the style _SET4TH uses MultiDrums, and will trigger the glitch you're experiencing. Try using a different style that doesn't use MultiDrums - it will be mentioned in the style memo when a particular style uses MultiDrums.

"JP"
Only after you mentioned it, thanks for that.
I noticed, I had the exact same problem with: FLOWING.STY
and this style doesn't use the CAJON drums.

"Simon"
"Did you render a WAV file of your song and save it in the same directory with the same file name? If so, change the name of the WAV file to something else. BIAB automatically loads WAV files with the same name onto the Melody track, which turns it orange exactly how you're describing."

That's the strange thing, I never rendered anything.
I just chose the style, changed a few instruments and the drums, put in the chords, saved the song, closed BIAB.
Next morning I loaded up the song, and the melody name had changed and turned orange.

It hasn't happened since.
It was probably something I did, it was kind of late.
...
"Did you re-generate the song? Or were the drums frozen? Choosing a different Realdrum does not usually force regeneration."

Yes, I always regenerate.
Thanks for letting me know that the bug is with 'Multi Styles'

I won't use them anymore until we get a fix.👍