PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Drum Stems can't be heard on new song [PG: bug reported]

Hi, sorry if this is posted in the wrong place.

I've been having a problem with drum stems since I upgraded to Biab 2024.

I can load my old songs which I made in Biab 2022 and the stems work flawlessly, but the drum stems cannot be heard with this new song I'm working on.

When I click on the 'Tracks' tab and where the individual drums should be (kick, snare, etc) there are no audio waveforms, just blank spaces.

I've checked all the directories for the real tracks, rebuilt and verified with no errors.

The problem persists no matter which real drums with stems I choose

The mix of the drums works fine, but I'll desperately need the stems by the time I move the song to Cubase.

I've tried going back to factory default with the settings,
I re-installed the software and the packs, but still the same problem.

This is a real head-scratcher, I've been trying to solve this for nearly a week.

Any help is much appreciated, thank you.

Here's the .SGU file:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qnup39u7vd72a4blvl3ng/Running-Through-The-Streets.SGU?rlkey=yr3nz4hcojs7xyvjlyhdtzn57&st=jkgnn5j5&dl=0
.....................................................
Windows 10, Biab 2024 build 1111

ive had some funky stuff occur in drum picker.
ASSUMING YOUR REAL DRUMS PICK HAS STEMS...

..uncheck all stems box.
..tick stems you want
..generate n play.

above works here..ive found in rd picker its a tad funky...n fiddly.
gotta experiment with settings.

PS I NEVER USE VANILLA FILE SAVE ..I ALWAYS SAVE SPECIAL... PATCHES AND HARMONY...best practice ive found.

hth..now im off cos i smell my wifes big english breakfast.
i once had wild times in manchester....lol.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

This is my reply to the West Ham fan, whose post was deleted for some reason

"..so your saying in the fab new bb tracks view you dont see the stem waveforms ?"
Yes.

"..have you checked bringing up the style in the picker and seeing what stems are ticked ?"

I have all the Stems boxes checked.

"..as a test start a new song then enter a few chords in chord sheet"

I did this and chose the same kit as I use in the song, I also chose a random drum kit with stems and everything works as it should with all the individual drum tracks playing. I can also see the waveforms in the 'Tracks' tab. So it looks like the problem is exclusive to my song.

"a tip ..when i save an sgu i never use vanilla save...i ALWAYS save special patches and harmony cos ive been caught out in the past with
vanilla save"

Thanks for the tip, I'll keep that in mind.

I used to watch the footie religiously. Back in the day, I was a Leeds United fan. These days I can take it or leave it. However, I sometimes like to go to the pub to watch England play.

Good luck with West Ham, they may need it😄

I'll try again, thanks

Still no joy, no sound coming from the stems.

I have to admit, I've had a few wild times over here myself

on that mopey style it uses a wes little rd mallets.
this rd shows no stems on my system for wes.

re your pics im a tad vision impaired even with my fab eye surgery..have you subbed the wes little rd with another per your graph ic..americana ??

what style and rd are you useing ??
not mopey n not wes ??

once you confirm style and rd ill do a test.

om

"re your pics im a tad vision impaired even with my fab eye surgery..have you subbed the wes little rd with another per your graph ic..americana ??"

Yes I did, I think the original Realdrum kit was called Cajon or something like that, but because it had no stems, I changed it to: Americana16thsBrushSyncFred

I started a fresh song and copied all the chords over from the old version. I then loaded all the realtracks\realdrums.
It all works. So I imagine it will work when you do it from your end.

yes wes little no stems.

your useing EXCLINT style not mopey right ??
your graphic showed also mopey hilited.

ok re americana rd stems work here BUT 2 toms are just a thick line...
other stems ok. I see waveform.

btw sometime read my realband and drum tricks threads in tips forum.
in realband you can have a slew of drum tracks like allusions of two drummers plsying n drum solos etc etc 256 tracks p!us you can comp multiple drum gens sections into a final drum track if you wish.

ok i see its now working for you right ?

i bet man u are partying lol.

hth.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

You're right, it's the same here, the Toms are just showing a blank line in the Tracks tab, even on the fresh song I started. I didn't notice before.

"your useing ECLINT style not mopey right ??
your graphic showed also mpey hilited."

Sorry, I'm a bit thick, not sure what ECLINT & mpey is.

Here is the "tracks view" for your song. Dispite the fact that the mixer indicates you have drum stems, there are no audio files on those Utility tracks. I am afraid I have simply "Confirmed" exactly what you have said. "Drums Stems can't be heard". Let me keep on looking a little deeper...

your pic for stylepicker showed EXCLINT hilited also fainter Mopey.

what style are you useing ?? cos drdan shows yet a different style.

keep rocking

om

I have put this into the Bug Report forum to try and escalate it to the developers. My guess is this is a proplem which has been seen in the past.

The original style I chose was 'SET4th.STY'
But I've replaced most of the Realtracks and the Drums.

Rather than doing that in the future, I think I'll have a go at creating a user-style from scratch.
Time to start tidying up my workflow

I always seem to have problems when I start replacing the instruments of a set style.


"btw sometime read my realband and drum tricks threads in tips forum.
in realband you can have a slew of drum tracks like allusions of two drummers plsying n drum solos etc etc 256 tracks p!us you can comp multiple drum gens sections into a final drum track if you wish."

After my tea, I'll browse through your posts, thanks.

Thank you good people for taking the time to help me out, much appreciated.

dr.

heres a trick to try...lets say the style is country.
and your doing a country song...dont just limit yourself to country real drums.

there are lots of drum sounds in other music genres you might be able to use...or slice n dice in the huge pg content...heres a method to try...once you arranged chords in chord sheet.

1..open rd picker with ALL drums for all styles showing.
2..make sure in alphabetical order.
3..load each rd irrespective of style.
4..when you find a drum sound that floats your boat isolate..
drop the drum track from tracks view into realband and mute.

continue in this fashion until youve tried all rd's.

before you ask yes its a lot of work but i only do it on a serious song rather than a ruff demo.
its the ONLY WAY to uncover what i term gold nuggets of sound.
in rb then you can keep chunks of what you like and cut out what you dont like.ie slice/dice/edit....then gradually build your final drum track...

an example might be you like a crash cym in a rock rd that cranks you up or say a drum sound in jazz or some percussion latin...whatever...you dont have to stay in one genre...you can mix match. so if you like say a certain country style you like but not drums...just experiment with drums from other genres and styles.

hth...now im gonna watch champs euro final.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thanks for the awesome tips, I'll definitely be trying this out.

And that will help with the inability to load and play individual drum stems - how? Sounds to me like another BIAB workaround which does not address the real problem here. Or am I missing something?

DrDan...

heres something to ponder...

1..lets say pg expand rd content with not just more rd sounds but also stems for every single rd style.
this will balloon the rd library...and then some people will complain about dload times. for example im in an area with slower internet.
lots of areas in this wide world have slow net.

2..ive seen the drum libs usedby some big studios...they are huge.
frankly ive steered away from such because i would have sooo many drum sounds i would like...it would be tough to decide which to use....lol.
ie paralysis by analysis.

i cant spesk for pg but imho its a fine line they probably have to tread because the world base of users is so diverse.

in another thread Rob Helms suggested some of the blame lies with us users...re bb...cos over the years pg trying to keep such a diverse base of users happy...so lots of new content and features.
im no apologist...and sure you make a good point...but like everythingin life there are plusses and minuses.
eg i would love a shelby mustang instead of my humble corolla...but the mustang im sure would cost way more to msintain.

btw great credit to the doctoring profession for improving my eyesight.
im sooo happy.
i assume your a doctor ?

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

This is great, being able to pick & mix until your hearts content, I had no idea.👍

You're right, DrDan, it is a workaround. But I'm always up for new ways of getting the job done. It would be great if we didn't have to work outside Biab. In theory, we should be able to do all this without having to use other software. By now, after all these decades of Band-in-a-box, still having to use workarounds is crazy. But I'm glad there are Biab users out there, still pushing the limits and finding new ways around certain problems, even if they are a tad clunky & quirky. I do hope PG iron out all of the issues surrounding 'Drum Stems', because it's quite obvious that people, overwhelmingly prefer to use drum stems over loops and drum mixes.

drone13.

there are sooo many drum features to discover in pg products..
without useing other products...
..making your own drum patterns driving pg drum content and third party free drum sounds.....check out rb pattern maker.
..customise your own drum solos.
..building up your own huge drum sound custom library over time..
useing....
.....pg drum sounds youve extracted from genned tracks and content.
(i think its blinking fair that pg dont lock you out of useing their content in new ways.)
.....custom sounds of your own from household things.....eg water glasses tuned or say spoons or nature sounds..its endless.
.....check out computermusic.co.uk...for 20 quid you get over 80 free fx and synth plugins and drum plugins etc. you dont have to buy every month. i just would buy it once a year to get all the 80 freebies.
i use one of cm mag verb plugins on my lead vocs....its endless.
plus loads of samples n loops etc etc.
skys the limit without spending large on huge libs....so you can have roast beef n yorkshire lol.
(also check out all the sounds free in the beebs spitfire plugin.)

did you know you can get a drum solo from say a pg guitar rt ?
or any other pg rt ? lots of fun via tricks....no im not bonkers...lmao...its true.
just pm me for more info if you wish.

finally...and heres where you MUST be carefull not to disturb or change the pg directories....people complain they want more isolated drum stems...heres a way to do this...

VERY CAREFULLY COPY FROM THE PG CONTENT THE DRUMS WITHOUT DELETING OR MOVING ANYTHING..
ie copy to a new dir youve called 'my drum library'....mdl dir.
now in mdl play in windows the drum files and go carefully to the END OF THE DRUM FILE...and lo and behold what do we often find....ISOLATED DRUM SOUNDS...
load the pg drum file into rb and isolate and extract the drum sound or sounds from end of file...a crash or tom or fill or whatever and save in your own custom drum sounds lib your building.
tbese drum sounds can then be loaded into a free sample player plugin...found on the net...

as you can see like the famed knickerbocker glory...tres yummy...
there are a ton of ways to make it.
ps...remember there are more drum sounds in the free synthmaster and sforzando plugins in the pg content....and loops...and midi supertracks and of course playable real tracks feature now.
just experiment in realband with the things ive detailed. remember in rb you can gen audio and midi tracks...the creativity capability is infinite.

For more..read my tips in tips forum to save me typing oodles.

hth.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Do you think I could do all these cool tricks you mention in Cubase rather than Realband? I have Realband, but I've hardly used it. It's just a case of what I'm used to. I've been a Cubase user since Cubase 5 and it's now on 13. I'm still using Cubase 5 though, it's been my faithful companion in regard to music production for nearly 20 years. Yep, I'm due an update.

It's amazing how many free plugins are out there, and many are just as good and sometimes better than the paid products.

drone.

its a looong time since i used cubase.
so i cant comment much.

i assume you can drop into cubase audio and midi tracks generated by pg bb/rb. but rb and bb have lots of unique features i havent found in other daws. its not just the pg track generation features but other tricks and features.
i cant comment further...so it might be best to open up rb and read the manual to compare features with cubase.
the negative of rb is its gui...but...like the famous saying...theres lots of lovely features underneath. rb...so just read therb manual.
the tricks ive outlined are just a few of the many to discover in bb/rb.

fyi last week i tried a.very high end daw costing big...over 1000...
it looked fantastic and had its own great features...but underneath i found i would miss many rb features.

cest la vie...its like any gear...plusses and minuses.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

It's not what the DAW looks like, it's what it does that matters. I've heard a lot of good things about RealBand.

I'm going to make sure Biab 2024 is properly updated. If that doesn't help
I'm going to try uninstalling and then re-installing Biab 2024, and all the packs again. (I know, I'm probably pissing against the wind)
If the problem persists,
I'll be rolling back to Biab 2022. I never had any problems with stems while using 2022. Hopefully, it will only be a temporary move, maybe until I've upgraded my system at some point.
I'll lose out on a lot of good stuff with 2024, but at least with Biab 2022, I could happily complete a song. I thought the problem was only with a few kits but it seems to be with every kit I choose. I'm lucky to get a kick drum here and there.
I'm also guessing the problem is somewhere at my end otherwise more people would be complaining about the stems.

Thank you for trying to help, I really appreciate it😉

Don't believe that. Truth is there are so many features that few folks actually use, that it is not unusual in BIAB to have something go wrong and no one notice. I never used PGM Drum Stems, I am a EZD3 user when I need a specific drum sound. But when I tried to reproduce your issue I found I could not get a drum stem to play. Went back and reviewed some of the early PGM videos and didn't find a solultion. There is just no sound even though the mixer shows the stems are present (exactly as you reported it). Hang in there, someone will figure this out and tell us what we are doing wrong OR PGM will come along with a fix. Unfortunately, this whole senario is all too common in BIAB.

drone13 and DrDan.

re drum stems.

ok i have some interesting info for you both.

1...in realband i genned the stems of randomly chosen real drum styles.
and the drum stems genned fine including waveforms and played fine....its easier in rb as oodles of tracks.
2...so i then tried the americana one...looks like the prob is style specific.
3...in conclusion one cant say all drum stems dont work....cos the ones i tried at random all worked.

(@DrDan....post a ;pic of your drum picker settings mate and i'll have a look also post back rd styles your haveing probs with and i'll do tests and report back.)

this week i'm gonna go through every single rd style with stems and see if there any others with probs other than that one used by drone.

A BIG NOTE...in the drum picker its a tad 'fiddly'...YOU MUST get the drum picker settings CORRECT.

@ drone13...what styles do you generally create songs for ???

country mainly ?? other music genres ??
gimme a list of music genres and i'll post back the rd's that might get you excited like bubble n squeak...lol...
or cranked up like my fav... a eagle e type jag...perchance to dream if i win the lottery or my other fav...caterham...

https://www.eaglegb.com/

https://caterhamcars.com/en

dont drool...lol.

@drone13...

there are loads of free country samples if country is your genre...eg...

https://www.bigfishaudio.com/Free-Sample-Pack-Country

there are tons of free samples in lots of other genres also on the net....just google or go on you tube.
remember you can generate with pg apps an infinite number of midi drum tracks which in turn drive drum plugin samples...
its endless.

save your money on paid products and get a few nice fish n chips suppers with spotted dick with custard for dessert...lol.
ive seen the paid drum products..very nice...but they can add up to be expensive...and also i like to work fast when im in the song creation zone and pg rd's let me do that...ie gen drum tracks fast.

happiness.

om...keep rocking.

Thanks for the efforts. Here is a list of the RD and their stems I tried. None played or were evident in the Audio Tracks. I only tried one Actual Style selection shown in the picture. Hell, are you suggesting that the song style may be the source of the problem? If that is the case no wonder no one is reporting this. It would be like a needle in a haystack.

And since we are talking about workarounds. Let me suggest my goto - EZD3!

OK, I switched the Song Style and picked one of the RD stems and it worked. This is way too hit or miss. No one ever said it works with some styles but not with others! Wait this is a midi drums! Does it only work on Midi Drums?? if some one tells me this is explained in the manual, I will go away quitely.

dan.

my answers.

1...please if you could post bigger pics cos of my vision.
OR just post the names of the problem rd styles so i can test and report back if they are a prob here.
2..try this...on a problem style...tick all stems and make sure that mix is unticked then gen stems.
3..heres the ZINGER re you blokes reporting some blank tracks...
what ive found so far in some cases is that the track may look blank BUT in fact there IS audio there...but at a very low level...eg room micing....SOOOO...if you find a blank track duplicate it to bring up the level OR normalise the low level track audio and adjust volume down to taste.
4...there is nothing unusual about room mics being low in level.
i saw it studios many times depending on the song and mic distance from source and how much bleed is desired....eg in 60s couple of mics or so close on the drums and maybe one or more room mics.

anyhoo dan post back a list of rd's with stems you feel are a problem and i'll run tests. cos the yellow highlights im finding difficult to read.
ps i find drum testing in rb far easier.
typically in bb i sketch out a song often...then in rb as there are oodles
of tracks i flesh out the drum and other tracks.
(i use reaps v2 for some editing tricks....).
in summary its a question of useing the plusses of each daw app.


rock on.
ps in rb one can do all sorts of midi tricks...check out my drum and other rb tips in tips forum to save me retyping mate.

@drone13...
instead of dropbox could you post your problem sgu to somewhere i dont have to set up an account and ill test out your sgu in detail.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thanks, but no thanks. I get no joy trouble shooting this issue in BIAB. My only intention was to assist the OP and confirm the problem, which I did. The fact that this feature works in some cases and not in others is problem enough and should be fixed by PGM. As I said, I don't use Drum Stems.

Rearding viewing the screen pics, I can suggest ...[in win 11] "To turn on Magnifier, press the Windows logo key + Plus sign (+) . To turn off Magnifier, press the Windows logo key + Esc. If you prefer using a mouse, select Start > Settings > Accessibility > Magnifier, and then turn on the Magnifier switch." I also struggle with small print.

drdan...

actually i dont know if its actually a bb problem...as i said...it might just be that the room mics are soo low that waveform isnt visible.
but im gonna test all rd stems this eeek.
maybe pg can comment about the room mics level.

note..im on this tablet not win...
so i cant use the accessibility feature of win...also my production win pc never sees the net....see my tips why.
as to commercial drum libs...yes they are nice but i find them too time consuming...

happiness.

om

i just tested a bunch more of rd with stems.
all waveforms visible and playback.
For anyone reading this...

the only reason i can see for the problem behaviour is a user has all tick boxes ticked. so possibility a settings aspect.
in all my testing so far ive ensured that all the stems boxes are ticked
and mix is unticked.

if there is a pg 'bug' if any its a lack of clarity on useage of the drum picker drum stems tick boxes feature.
here all stems get genned with waveforms.

other pg users can test if they doubt me. im happy to test any rd style with stems.

ill report further as i go thru all rd with stems in the picker.
and ill report any anomolies.
Rock on...

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thank you for the reassurance DrDan, I do feel better knowing this problem may not be due to a problem at my end. I tend to make knee-jerk reactions when something goes wrong, like uninstalling everything 😲 and it's no fun with a product as big as Biab.

The styles I choose, well, I don't use any specific style.
No matter the style I choose, I generally change most of the instruments anyway. Most of the time I'll start with a slow country style, it's whatever I like the sound of at the time.
One thing I always go for are the Americana rd's, I love the sound of these drums, I've used them every time on the songs I did with Biab 2022 and the strange thing is, those songs play fine with Biab 2024

BTW, do you know of any styles that resemble artists like Pink Floyd? I know they've reinvented themselves over the years, I like all Floyd periods from the late 60's to the last album they did a few years back

"the only reason i can see for the problem behaviour is a user has all tick boxes ticked. so possibility a settings aspect.
in all my testing so far ive ensured that all the stems boxes are ticked
and mix is unticked."

I tried this and still have the same problem. But one thing I am sure of is that the problem is intermittent.

Sometimes only some of the drums are visible, and other times nearly all the drums are visible apart from say the Toms are missing.

I wonder if this problem is due to not installing Biab in the default location. Ney, this doesn't make sense because Biab 2022 works fine.
...
If you're using a tablet instead of a PC or Mac, magnifying should be easy, just like a smartphone.

Rototoms!
Add a little of this to your track for that cool PinkFloyd sound.

'JustanoldMuso'
Dropbox is the only one I know of, let me know where you'd like me to upload the SGU and I'll be happy to do so.

Wow! This is awesome, thanks Drdan. They sound just like the Toms from 'Time'

drone.

1..re sgu upload...a ton of free upload sites if you google.
just google free no registration needed upload site.
2..heres a suggestion...and based on my testing of various rd style stems....when you see a line waveform...solo the genned stem and youll find audio IS there...its just at a low low level....so dupe it if you want higher.
let me comment further...and its only a suspicion,....BUT... i suspect the studio recording the rd styles has mics set up so they can decide
which mics are more dominant and which mics arent depending on drum style. its just conjecture...but maybe its a decision made in the recording process.
so...the decision is made depending what each style calls for. maybe pg support can clarify why...and ive noticed on certain style the room mics are lower in level or tom bottom or snare bottom mics depending on style.
3..re magnifier...im well aware of such. I used the magnifier PLUS another external mag on dans yellow hilites and still had probs.


anyhoo...im gonna continue to go thru all rd with stems this week.
from what ive seen so far testing rd stems the perceived problems might be due to a particular mic recording level the recording engr decided on or user settings. what ive found is one has to be very carefull re drum picker settings. if i can fault pg it would be that use needs clarifying further. its fiddly.

dan...like those rotos....there are tons of freebies on the net.
drone...in realband there are various ways to trigger those on a track.
eg sample player triggered via a midi track. see my tips for more info to save me retyping....note the rb feature fill track with drum pattern feature or rb genning a midi track eg drums ....right clik over rb track
to access...and many other ways.

hth.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

"justanoldmuso"
https://file.io/oN8zqfZBLcPl

Here you go pal, the SGU you requested.

As you mentioned, I soloed some of the rd stems, whacked the volume in the mixer to max, (or is there another way to increase the level of an instrument?) and still can't hear anything. You're right though, some of the drums have been recorded a bit quiet.

Once I've got everything working as it should, I'll look into to your cool tips in more depth, they've certainly peaked my interest😉

drone.

thanks... im doing things this morning with my wife... but will test sgu later.

heres my position...ive gone back over possible stem probs again...
and found there is level on the low tracks as realband shows me on its playback meters the level.

i suspect the recording studio engr recording the rd stems decides what fits best with the style..

please confirm which americana style gives probs mate.
type it in CAPITALS please....and ill test.

fyi...a joke on me...when i sang once in a band in uk...could see nnothing...cos took specs off for the wild image.
we were kinda bonkers back then..crazy fun times...lol

om. 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

😄, yeah, you gotta look cool for the show. Remember Buddy Holly wore glasses, the fans still loved him.

I've got a few things to do myself, and then I'll check the RD styles, thanks

I just listened to your 'Pretty Girl' song, very professional sounding, Your vocals sound great and clear. I can hear every word. It's certainly got that British vibe. Sounds well mixed👍 the second song sounds very much like Syd Barrett from Pink Floyd, RIP.

drone...

1..thanks for the listens.

i'll share a secret with you...if you listen closely to the pretty girl song which is basically about
my wifes kindness always....my vocal cracks a bit towards song end with positive emotion.
i purposely left it in because i feel its nice to show emotion in songs sometimes.
keeps it real life....actually tears welled up in me when i recorded the vocals cos why she chose this crazy rocker bloke...i dunno..lol....she says she was slightly tipsy at the time.
(btw...ive had many likes from women on my scloud re the song.).

as to the rock song...stallion...my 'thing' is doing songs with many different vocal styles
for the challenge of it. i once even sang opera...lol.
the rocker stallion is my evil twin rocker side or jekyll and hyde coming out....lmao.
different voc style cos thats what the song called for. for me its all about haveing lots of fun.
fyi...all songs in my sig used nothing else but pg products includeing pg's suite of fx plugins.
no other products. this way i keep focused...instead of haveing too many choices....and getting nothing done.

i just do the best i can...and hope others like it...then its on to the next song.
although i have picked up various tips in pro studios over the years i dont profess to be an ace pro
audio engr. my thing is singer/songwriter....thanks again for the listens.

2..your sgu.

thanks got it.
heres my comments...

..PLEASE CONFIRM !! the real drum your useing is CAJON FOLK 16ths ? for seth4 which is seth style default rd.?...if so in my rd picker it shows NO STEMS...for cajon.
..OR your SGU looks like its actually useing AMERICANA 16 th BRUSH SYNC FRED ?
please confirm....in this case there are 7 stems all which genned here fine in rb AND i can see 7
led track meters blinking. however TOM FLOOR AND RACK ARE LOW IN LEVEL BUT STILL I GET LED METER LIT.

please get back to me with confirmation of which rd is used.
i love detective work...lmao...its fun.

happiness

om

"justanoldmuso"

IF YOU'RE STRUGGLING TO READ TEXT, JUST ZOOM IN WITH YOUR TABLET, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ZOOM ANY WEB PAGE WITH EASE

AFTER EACH DRUM CHANGE I GENERATED.

OK, THE RD STYLE I USE FOR THIS SONG IS:

'AMERICANA16THSBRUSHSYNCFRED'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX.

IN THE MIXER, THE NAME CHANGED TO KICK, I PLAYED THE SONG, IT SOUNDED NO DIFFERENT FROM WHEN I CHECKED THE MIX STEM BOX. THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGED WAS THE MIX TRACK NAME.

I ALSO USED A FEW MORE RD STYLES AT RANDOM:

'CUBANCASCARAWES'

WITH THIS RD STYLE, I CHECKED ALL THE BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX

THE DRUM MIX TRACKS NAME CHANGED TO 'KICK IN'
BUT NOTHING IS HEARD, EVEN FROM ALL THE OTHER DRUM TRACKS.

'FUNKROCK70SPERK'

WITH THIS RD, I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT FOR THE MIX BOX.

THE DRUM MIX TRACKS NAME CHANGED TO 'KICKIN'
AGAIN, NOTHING CAN BE HEARD FROM ANY OF THE DRUM STEMS.

'FUNKSYNC16THSPERK'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES, INCLUDING THE MIX BOX.

ONLY THE MIX TRACK CAN BE HEARD, NO SOUND COMING FROM THE OTHER STEMS.

'FUSIONALEXFASTPERK'

WITH THIS RD STYLE I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES EXCEPT THE MIX BOX.

THE DRUM MIX TRACK'S NAME CHANGED TO KICK,
THERE'S NO SOUND FROM ANY DRUM TRACK.

THE PROBLEM IS THE SONG STYLE YOU HAVE SELECTED NOT THE RD STYLES.

YOU USE "_SET4TH.STY" - CHANGE THIS TO ANYTHING ELSE AND REPEAT THE TRAILS. I AM BETTING THAT WILL WORK.

AM I WRONG?

Hang on a moment, drDan, I think you're onto something.

I chose a different style at random. Changed all the instruments to how I had them and it works. All the stems are playing as they should without any problems at all. I think you've cracked it 😉🎶🎵. Happy daze. I will knock on wood though just in case I'm getting ahead of myself, but it's looking good so far. I'll post back here if I have more problems with the stems.
Thank you both for being so patient and helpful.
You guys are awesome.

I used RD AMERICANA 16 th BRUSH SYNC FRED.

Hey listen, your songs are fantastic, much better than what I can do. You have a great voice for it. It's amazing how you only used PG, but it's not surprising, those RealTrack do sound wicked.

Did you use any fx whilst recording your voice or did you record dry and then add fx like compression etc?

Recording vocals is a real pain atm, I've got a lot of interference being picked up by the mic. Everything is grounded properly, I think it's coming from all the electrics I have around the computer.
When I record in Cubase, where there should be silence, there's a thick line of interference. It's very off-putting.

I don't have a SoundCloud account yet, I'll sign up soon and give you some more likes😉

I'm buzzing the stem prob seems sorted. Thank you for the help, you guys are awesome.

There is a bug in that style.
It calls a Cajon Drum [multi] for DR of which there is no clear core drum.
Playing with the style reveals a CajonFolk16th Drum (it supposed to change minor style in a vs b part, also (No stems)
Replacing it with a stem-based drums will produce no stems.
Probably a bug with Multi drums being replaced in a style.

That's precisely the issue here. I'll report it to the developers, thanks all!

The workaround for this in the meantime is to either start from a different but similar style and change the Realtracks to what you want, or start from a blank style and add the Realtracks you want.

some more info.
(btw @ drone...on tablet i max out mag n still get probs with v small text)

1..as i said before...im going thru all rd with stems....im half way thru.
i was skiving off today with my wife...but now ill get back to testing.
heres something interesting tho...in all my testing so far the only style with stems i had probs with was a bossa style with stems.
AND...some added info...
2..in all the years useing pg apps ive done a zillion substitutions in styles to replace a styles drum and instrumentation ie real tracks and real drums....in fact...my standard method for ages is....after laying out the chord sheet...on a serious song i go thru all of the thousands of pg session muso content and replace the styles standard content with new rt's and rd's..
in fact with a serious song i set up a special test bed environment.

i do this serious work and detailed in depth testing because ive found over the years if i keep just to the styles standard instruments i miss some really neat sounds in other rt's and rd's that will elevate the song....for example in the pretty girl song i went thru hours of testing to find that tremelo rt i used. its like panning for gold...lol.
i did the same with the other songs...lots of work to meet the vision i have for a song. in summary i do a ton of testing of replacing a styles content with new pg content...
thus im baffled why some might have a problem subbing a styles standard content with new content.
Worst case ive maybe had a very few hiccups but nothing that irritated me.

i would be interested to hear from pg why certain stems are low in level...it doesnt seem to be dominant mics but im finding often its room mics...and other stems.

anyhoo...more testing to do....ill post back any problematic stem rd's
if i find such.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

(I'M NOT SHOUTING, I'M USING CAPS FOR OUR FRIEND WITH IMPAIRED VISION😉)

THERE'S DEFINITELY A BUG, AND I THINK IT'S WITH MORE THAN ONE STYLE.

LAST NIGHT I STARTED A FRESH SONG FROM SCRATCH.
CHOSE A RANDOM STYLE: _FLOWING.STY


THIS MORNING I LOADED THE SONG AND NOTICED THAT THE MELODY TRACK HAD CHANGED COLOUR TO ORANGE, AND THE MELODY TRACK NAME HAD CHANGED TO: 'ARTIST' AND THE DESCRIPTION HAD CHANGED TO: 'STEREO 32-BIT'
ANYWAY, I DISMISSED IT AND CARRIED ON.


I THEN TRIED TO CHANGE THE RD STYLE TO ONE WITH STEMS.
I CHOSE: AMERICANA 16 GROOVIN BRUSH FRED.

I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES, INCLUDING THE MIX BOX

SOMETHING VERY STRANGE HAPPENED.
INSTEAD OF ANY MUSIC AND DRUMS PLAYING, THERE WAS NO MUSIC PLAYING AT ALL FROM ANY TRACK. THERE WAS ONLY A STATIC-LIKE BUZZING NOISE AS IF THE SAMPLE RATE WAS DIFFERENT TO MY AUDIO DEVICE. BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, THE SAMPLE RATE HASN'T CHANGED.

(IS THERE A WAY TO MANUALLY CHANGE THE SAMPLE RATE INSIDE BIAB, OR IS IT DONE AUTOMATICALLY WHEN I CHANGE IT IN THE ASIO CONTROL PANEL?)

ANYWAY, I RELOADED THE SAVE THEN CHANGED THE DRUMS TO A RANDOM RD STYLE: SOUL 60s SLOW 128

I CHECKED ALL THE STEM BOXES INCLUDING THE MIX BOX

THE SONG PLAYED OK BUT EVEN THOUGH ALL THE STEMS WERE SHOWING IN THE MIXER, THE DRUMS HADN'T CHANGED, IT JUST PLAYED THE DRUMS THAT CAME WITH THE STYLE _FLOWING.STY I ORIGINALLY CHOSE.

I THOUGHT THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE RD I CHOSE HAVING A MUCH LOWER TEMPO THAN MY SONG,
SO I CHANGED THE DRUMS TO ONE WITH A SIMILAR TEMPO TO MY SONG. I CHOSE: SOUL ROCK 70s EV
EVEN THOUGH THE TRACK NAMES HAD CHANGED AND THE STEMS WERE SHOWING IN THE MIXER. THE DRUMS PLAYING WERE THE ONES THAT CAME WITH THE ORIGINAL STYLE I CHOSE: _FLOWING.STY.

IS THERE A WAY TO SELECT ONLY STYLES THAT ARE COMPATIBLE WITH STEMS?

DRONE13.
(note mate im fine with the text in these brackets...ie non caps thanks to the great eye
doctors...it was just that one yellowed graphic gave me probs even with magnification...
no biggie...onwards and upwards...lets get to it.)

****ADDENDUM (after my breakfast)...****

DRONE...VERY IMPORTANT.
RE YOUR SGU YOU SENT ME.

1...when i look at the chords window i noticed the red square around first bar.
so i went to f5 to check your settings and lo and behold it looks like you have muted
tracks till bar 17. ..
2...in realband i unmuted after loading in your sgu et voila....and useing FLOWING style
on your chord sheet. i tested with RD >>>>AMERICAN 16 BRUSH FRED.

flowing has a nice trem guitar sound right ??

3...i'll tell you what...
send me A LIST OF WHAT RT's AND RD and TEMPO you would prefer...and i'll make any amendments to your sgu here...
AND then i'll load up temporary on scloud the mixed ruff song idea for your listening
and critique..if all ok for you...then i'll send amended sgu back to you and delete the mix from scloud...fair enough mate ????
this way i can test all. tell me if FLOWING style is ok to use.
you like that one with the tremelo guitar <<<nice !!..?

****BEFORE BREAKFAST TESTS...MY COMMENTS FOR YOU...****

1..RD's..i tested ALL rd's youve mentioned in this thread including recent ones.
heres my comments
...all generated fine here...heres the list i tested.
...AMERICANA16BRUSHSYNCFRED.....AMERICAN16GROOVINBRUSHFRED.....CUBANCASCARAWES.....
FUNKROCK70SPERC.....FUNKSYNC16THSPERC.....FUSIONALEXFASTPERC...
...the only probs i found was in some cases low audio levels...BUT ALL LED's ALWAYS LIT...
but some at a low level. I DO FEEL THESE WERE DECISIONS PROLLY MADE BY THE AUDIO ENGR
in the studio depending on music genre. only pg can confirm how recorded.
...now to the low levels...
...first one...all good cept low level tom floor and rack.
...third one ie cuban...overhead and tom floor low.
...fifth one ie funksync...tom rack low level.
...last one fusion alex...quite a few mics low...
snare bottom//hhat//tom 1 n 2 n 5//overhead room left.
IN CONCLUSION...ALL GENNED FINE...ALL LEDs displayed...cept some low levels per above.
in all cases i had all stems ticked and mix unticked which ALSO UNTICKED ALL STEMS...
BUT BIG NOTE...ALL STEMS REMAINED TICKED...<<<<<<<<<this is important before clicking ok....
check all stem boxes are ticked and mix unticked.
ps...in rd picker is an option to only show drums with stems.
click settings...tick bottom box.

2..PROBLEM STYLES.
done...see addendum etc.

3..ELECTRICAL INTERFERENCE.

try the following...
...unplug each piece of audio gear until you get no interference.
ie process of elimination.
...ensure in your studio that different gear isnt plugged into many different outlets.
this can lead to problems. for example here i have a surge protected TOWER BAR with lots of
outlets. this is plugged into only one room outlet. MAKE SURE YOU DONT OVER LOAD THE ONE OUTLET
OTHERWISE THIS WILL TRIGGER A BREAKER PROLLY.
IF IN DOUBT GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN TO MEASURE THE CURRENT DRAW IN RELATION TO HOUSE OUTLET.
HOW MANY PIECES OF GEAR DO YOU HAVE FOR RECORDING ??
THAT YOUR PLUGGING IN ?? their spec sheets should show current draw.
...check articles on the net re interference in recording studios.
ONCE AGAIN IF SLIGHTEST DOUBT GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN...maybe a noise suppressor is
needed or a special studio power line conditioner in your case.

eg....reference articles...

https://www.recordingmag.com/resources/recording-info/for-your-studio/an-ounce-of-cure/#:~:text=This%20means%20that%20you%20actually,system%20is%20called%20'star%20grounding.

just google 'grounding problems and interference in recording studios.'.

now im off for my wifes loverly big english breakfast. actually its a cut down version...lol...cos the doctors
tell me saturated fats arent good for me.

happiness....and hth.
ps...yes pretty girl is about my kind and ever patient with me wife to answer your scloud comment...thanks.

om

Alf, Thanks for the noise interference tips, this has been bugging me for a long time.
I only have a condenser mic, guitar, MIDI controller. If I'm recording vocals, I unplug the guitar. There are other electrical things like hard drives etc that need to be moved when I remember to grab some longer leads, I'm a bit of a scatterbrain and quite forgetful.

Hey, I don't want you going out of your way and spending too much of your precious time on my problems, but if you insist, go for it😉 Big thanks.

I don't see this red square you mention. There is a red line though, is that what you mean?

I'm thinking I sent you the wrong SGU.
The only time I used the FLOWING style was to test the RD stems on a fresh song. My Bad 😵

Sorry about that, here try this one:
https://file.io/pyI4iuzhnJpa

The song name should be: Running Through The Streets
And the style named: SET4TH.STY (though I've added & replaced instruments)

And the instruments I chose should be:

BASS: 1825, Pop Modern Groove Held

PIANO 1 (I changed the name of this, to me, it's more of a piano than a bass): 3957, Bass Synth, Drama Piano Octaves

PIANO 2: 4316, Gospel Funk Trem
BANJO: 3413, Finger Picking, Folk
Vocal Oohs & Aahs: 2975, Pop3-Part
Guitar 1: 4021, Mod Country Ballad Power 1
Guitar 2: 4022, Mod Country Ballad Power 2
SAX 1: 2296, Tenor, Slow Pop
SAX 2: 587, Tenor, 2-Beat Rock
ORGAN: 688, B3, Background Pop
ACOUSTIC GUITAR 1: 702, Strumming Spirited
ACOUSTIC GUITAR 2: 1761, Strumming Pop
SYNTH PAD: 1840, Pop Modern Groove Mellow (this one is muted for now)

REAL DRUMS: Americana 16ths Brush Sync Fred


Just use whatever instruments that are already there, I'm not sure which direction I'm heading at the moment with this song, I may change some instruments later on, I dunno.

I appreciate this, Alf, thanks

dRoNe13
Did you not notice that the bug in SET4TH.STY has been noted by PGM and will be fixed.

drone..
please see my pm also...
im well on the way with a ruff demo of your song
all 15 tracks generated including drums useing FOLLOW style...for testing purposes ...
75 bpm.

note...editing and finessing n edits n section mutes to be done.
i didnt change your chords but started afresh in rb...no biggie.
same arrangement.
if you want ill post to my scloud sccount for you to listen n then ill delete...its a bit busy...so youll have to advise me further viz production.
Its loads of fun....im gonna test out now with somepg fx on some tracks.
worst case youll be able to hear what works n dont n advise me further.

ADDENDUM

did a bit of mixing...excited...got a PINK FLOYD vibe going..its cranking me up.
i really like FOLLOW style for this mate...
im ready to upload mp3 for your listen.

hth

om🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

The issue is specifically with styles that use MultiDrums - these styles are VERY uncommon (roughly 3% of ALL styles). It's quite possible you just haven't stumbled across one yet. I'm going to mark this thread as Resolved, as we are aware of the bug and are working to resolve it - it's in our database with the tracking number 3175.

Stems are completely unprocessed - no EQ or compression or anything, to allow BIAB users to apply their own processing - so you're getting exactly what each mic picked up. There are different ways of recording drums, so depending on who did the initial recording the levels can be different.

Did you render a WAV file of your song and save it in the same directory with the same file name? If so, change the name of the WAV file to something else. BIAB automatically loads WAV files with the same name onto the Melody track, which turns it orange exactly how you're describing.

BIAB generally follows whatever the sound card is set to, however with ASIO it will be locked to 44,100hz.

Did you re-generate the song? Or were the drums frozen? Choosing a different Realdrum does not usually force regeneration.

All styles should be "compatible" with stems - the initial issue with stems was specific to styles with MultiDrums, which is an issue we're working on, and the other issues you've reported in this thread are unrelated to stems.

I use one of those inexpensive "Kill a Watt" things, it'll read out the volts/amps/watts being used by whatever's plugged into it.

Making me jealous there mate!

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, the style _SET4TH uses MultiDrums, and will trigger the glitch you're experiencing. Try using a different style that doesn't use MultiDrums - it will be mentioned in the style memo when a particular style uses MultiDrums.

"JP"
Only after you mentioned it, thanks for that.
I noticed, I had the exact same problem with: FLOWING.STY
and this style doesn't use the CAJON drums.

"Simon"
"Did you render a WAV file of your song and save it in the same directory with the same file name? If so, change the name of the WAV file to something else. BIAB automatically loads WAV files with the same name onto the Melody track, which turns it orange exactly how you're describing."

That's the strange thing, I never rendered anything.
I just chose the style, changed a few instruments and the drums, put in the chords, saved the song, closed BIAB.
Next morning I loaded up the song, and the melody name had changed and turned orange.

It hasn't happened since.
It was probably something I did, it was kind of late.
...
"Did you re-generate the song? Or were the drums frozen? Choosing a different Realdrum does not usually force regeneration."

Yes, I always regenerate.
Thanks for letting me know that the bug is with 'Multi Styles'

I won't use them anymore until we get a fix.👍

"Alf"
You really didn't need to go to all that trouble, but thanks anyway.
How the hell did you manage to get the drum stems to work when there's a bug with the 'Multi Styles'?

With one of your quirky workarounds?

I need to record all the vocals yet. That will have to wait though, I have this damn chest infection that's very irritating.

I'll check out sound cloud, thanks

"Alf"

I'm new to soundcloud, never used it before. I don't know my way around. I can see 4 of your songs, but I don't see mine.

drone...

answers mate...

1...got your pm.
2...i havent uploaded to scloud yet...because its your song and i was waiting for your ok to upload....ruff demo done...so tell me you want me to do that or not mate.
3...re your question 'how the heck did i do that ' ??
my answer....
....took your list of 15 instruments and generated and mixed to ruff wav demo. actually i quickly added a tad pg verb to a sax also to see if you liked the idea and make it stand out.
...i did all in realband. my work method if i can use an analogy is on songs i use bb to ruff out the basic song house like an architect planning a house and then use a daw like realband to go from there....ie moving bits of audio etc around...getting rid of the bad...keeping the good and finalising the production of the song and producing the final stereo master.
...for this song its looking like production wise..as its such a neat floydish concept i feel a daw is best to be used as this is no trivial song concept....ie you have a lovely song concept...but to do justice to the song and given that obviously there are many tracks in the song imho a daw like rb is the appropo tool to take the song to the next level due to many tools in a daw like rb.
in summary bb for getting song idea down and daw like rb to develope song further.

in the interim an idea ...dunno if you like it...just suggestion... as your concept is tres neat...(btw in case your worried...i never take someones ideas...im a typical honest englishman....)
imagine floyd live and a backdrop or film of a lonely person roaming
around on a distant planet or a lonely street ...a lonely guitar starts the song off...one of the guitar rt's is very nice for this in your instrument list you gave me....then bam...like a uk soccer match local derby ...lol...eg hammers n chelsea all heck breaks loose...similiary the song from very quiete to pandemonium.

so i was just thinking...with your ok to upload to scloud the lonely guitar start and then the all instrumenation coming in...ie ruff demo of about a 2 minute of audio.
and then you take it from there and decide if you hate the idea or not.

btw pg user mario is a master at sounscapes....

anyhoo mate i await your instruction to upload or not.
be aware other people will be able to hear it too...so give me your ok.
its done now including lonely guitar start...ready to upload on your say so.
note...use decent earbuds. i mixed for such.
the name of the upload will include your user name drone and copyright june 2024 attributed to you.

keep rocking.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

drone13.

in case you read this first...

got your latest pm..replied with link in a pm back to you.

happiness.

om

Simon has been trying to tell you the issue is with styles that have [Multi] drums.

Hopefully that's a one-off, but from the behaviour you described it sounds like there was an audio file in the same location as the song file. Orange track headers are only used for audio tracks. If it happens again, double check to see if a WAV/MP3/etc file is in the same folder, and if so, rename it then re-open the song.

'Simon'
"The workaround for this in the meantime is to either start from a different but similar style and change the Realtracks to what you want, or start from a blank style and add the Realtracks you want."

Starting from a blank style is an excellent idea, I'll do this until the problem is sorted, thanks.

justanoldmuso +
DrDan +
jpettit +
Simon - PG Music +

Thanks for the help😉

You're welcome dRoNe13, happy to help!

Hi all,
I take it, that the Drum Stem problem hasn't been resolved in build 113.
I've installed the update but the problem persists.
Not to worry, I'm sure they'll be working on it.

Not yet, but it's high on the priority list.

Using the text: ' [PG: bug reported]' is far preferable than PGM staff labeling a thread as [Resolved] when it actually has only been acknowledged. In the context of these threads, resolved literally means 'corrected' or 'fixed'.

I wasn't the one who marked it Resolved. I've now changed it to Reported.

Excellent, Simon. Thanks very much for this, as it can be confusing for users to search for how an issue was resolved, only to find that it hasn't been. This is a much preferable method. Thanks again.