PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Discussion, suggestions for style content (cont...)

Hi Jim.
That got me thinking so I asked AI: "What is the difference between billboard's top 100 of today and 30 years ago?"
Answer:
Today: The Billboard Top 100 of today showcases a diverse range of music genres, including pop, hip-hop, R&B, EDM, and Latin music. There is a significant presence of rap and hip-hop artists dominating the charts.
30 Years Ago: In contrast, 30 years ago, the Billboard charts were more dominated by rock, pop, and R&B music. Genres like grunge and gangsta rap were emerging but had not yet reached the mainstream popularity they enjoy today. <end of answer>

My personal appeal to the Coders, Developers and Peter Gannon is for more relevent RT's and Styles for todays music. On form I doubt this will happen but the competition is about to become scary

izzy...

with respect i can get a zillion modern sounds...in pg apps.
see my tip in tips forum...you can do any modern genre you want
includeing your own custom styles.

it continues to beat me why people think that pg products cant do modern sounds n songs. realband developer jeff uses realband to do his own edm songs.

if you want a modern sounding song then use say pg synthmaster
or another sound source. driven by midi tracks.
synthmaster alone hax a cornucopia of modern sounds.
also nothing to stop you izzy generating a pg rt then slicing n dicing n editing it to get a fab sample you can put in a sample pkayer plug in and triggered by a midi track...the skys the limit.

eg lets say i want in a modern song a repeating vocal...
'i got some beefs'...just record such n edit n drop into a sample player
etc etc...driven by midi.

as i worked in tech for many years...yes ai is very interesting ...but in the end even with ai any song is work.

hth

om

OM.

I can slice and dice samples and load them into any favourite sampler, patch midis to the best synths on the planet and even make my own user tracks
until the cows come home but, meh.....

The magic of BIAB is instant gratification via the availability of genre friendly Real Tracks and styles.

(but I will go and have a squiz at your tips)

Hi Izzy,
I was thinking about different types of musical files such as WAV, MP3, MP4, audio loop, midi, effects, VSTis and so on that Band-in-a-Box can utilize. You appear to be thinking of the music genre content Band-in-a-Box offers.
Several users have posted songs from the music genres listed in the User Showcase; some to prove it can be done and some because they enjoy current music genres.
Band-in-a-Box can use almost any audio source or tool (except for VST3 plugins which is promised sometime in 2024) a DAW can use.
The key take-away to using Band-in-a-Box to make current music is you have to use your creativity different. By that I mean you have to learn to use the tools in Band-in-a-Box to structure your modern song the way current songs are structured, not the way you may have created a song in the past.

I agree with you 100%!

I also share the enthusiasm of Floyd and others about this amazing software. I have written and produced hundreds of songs that I really love and that would never have been possible without BIAB. I've even made enough money with my work to almost offset the yearly upgrade costs. So, I am very happy with BIAB.

My interests have mostly been with classic rock, country and folk and maybe a bit of alternative rock. These are areas where BIAB absolutely excels. I can come up with an idea for a bluegrass or country or rock or folk song, write some lyrics, write a melody and then enter chords into BIAB, audition some styles and minutes later I have something as good as many professionally written and produced songs (at least to my ears!)

But I disagree with the claims that creating modern music with BIAB is anywhere near as easy as creating classic music with BIAB. When I'm focusing on classic stuff BIAB is like an encyclopedia of suitable styles, all ready to go with very minimal alteration needed. But when I want to write something more modern BIAB is far less helpful, at least to me. And yes, I get that you CAN create any kind of music in BIAB. But the whole point of BIAB, at least for me, is to help me quickly lay down the instrument tracks. If I have to do the same heavy lifting in BIAB that I would do with libraries from Toontrack or Native then honestly I'd much rather use TT and NI in my DAW.

So, I also appeal the the devs and coders and PG to focus a LOT more on modern music. I go further and say we have enough bluegrass, country, jazz and rock tracks so a focus more on modern stuff would be most welcome to me.

J3 and izzy.

i just dont understand why people feel they cant do modern songs in pgmusic apps....

heres the issues...

1..you both want modern rt's...but which ones that pg dont provide ??
please provide example modern songs and sounds you feel pg content is missing...bearing in mind synthmaster alone i can get a slew of modern sounds.

2..any year whats 'in' re modern song styles and sounds might be different than next year...there are literal!y millions of possible sounds out there. so how do pg cope with this...its like constantly shifting sand.

3..if pg try to provide another eg...1000 new 'modern' sounds..lets say....to keep users into modern sounds happy ...there are implications like ballooning download times...as not everyone in the world has uber fast fibre net service...
so how can pg address this problem ?...and some users ensuing comp!aints re download times due to slow net services.

wouldnt it make sense given the above that pg users use midi generation features in bb and rb in conjunction with plugins with a ton of modern sounds in ?

honestly im not trying to be awkward...im just trying to suggest re above there are no win downsides for pg....thus its a catch 22 for pg.

i would love to know how pg solve the various issues.
cos in the past if ive wanted modern sounds i would generate midi tracks in pg apps and these would drive plugins and sounds i selected.

let me add why im carefull with sample libraries cos there are downsides...

1..they are so huge often and time consuming thus they interfere with my creation rhytm when im trying to get song ideas down fast as creative ideas flow.
2..the time spent going thru menus...for example in last month i saw a loverly lib...but realised i would have to expend not insignificant time with it.
3..because sample libs can be so large...once again cos the producers trying to keep their user base happy like pg with pg users...then people might complain it takes a long time to navigate like some pg users complain currently due to the vast.pg content....even if pg went the music genre seperate pacs route.

throw in the fact pg offer their products in different languages..thus i would suggest respectfully it might become a maintenance nightware for pg.
its like an old boss of mine in tech used to say to me 'you try to solve a problem bulge in a balloon in one area...only to create a problem bulge in another area...'.

haveing worked with some of the above aspects in tech in the past ive found there is no perfect solution to keeping user bases happy...cos....any way one looks at it the developer is in a no win situation and developers get user complaints over and over.

if pg users have any solutions to the above conundrums im sure that pg woukd love to hear them...cos...like we used to do in tech...we were often haveing meeting after meeting to find some breakthrough ideas to keep users happy...but no matter what we did...in the end.....complaints ensued.

let the solutions to above now flow cos im out of ideas how to keep pg users happy all the time based on my time in tech and tearing my hair out too many times...lmao...

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

I didn't say you can't. Read my post.

I can make modern music with my comprehensive library of tools like Native Instruments and Toontrack and others.

And, I can make classic music with Native Instruments and Toontrack and others too.

But what I love about BIAB is, for classic music, I can make the music a lot quicker with a lot less hassle than using those tools.

All I'm suggesting is to add much more focus on modern music in BIAB instead of having the bulk of every new upgrade consisting of more country, classic rock and jazz!

j3...

re your last paragraph...i completely agree.
eg ive got enough bass rt coming out my ying yangs in those styles.

but to get what you want then out of the zillion styles and sounds out there...if were me i would give example sounds and songs to help pg out. pg arent mind readers.
i tried once re the lottery and failed miserably...lol.
is that fair comment ?

keep rocking.

om

If only there was some sort of resource out there. You know, something like this,

https://www.billboard.com/charts/

j3.

of course mate but its not as simple ax that.
did you not read my post about other issues...like...
bal!ooning ultrapaks or audiophile paks size ? how do pg handle that ??...so users dont complain ? or users with slow net ?

even say pg had a special department always adding sounds like the top 200...maybe some users might not be happy.
we had same problem in industry...getting groups of users to agree.
what might be one users fav pizza combo might not be another users.
which is why suggest its a no win situation for pg.

keep rocking.

om

j3 and all users wanting more modern song content.

Critique this idea.

to cover pg logistics maintenance personnel and other costs and given the dynamic and ever changeing shifting sands of the top 200
how about the following...

1..each year a user wanting lots of new constant pg modern song content pays a small added fee...thus covering pg's costs...
in return...
2..each quarter a user can download a new small pac of modern content...ie...new styles and sounds.

ie through each year pg is monitoring the top 200 re new hot trends and sounds.

the advantage of the above idea would be the downloads wouldnt be onerous for users around the world with slow net services.
ie basically it solves the size problem by doing things in bite sized chunks..whaddya think ?? wou!d this keep users happy wanting more modern song content ??

just an idea.

keep rocking.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Or, how about this...PGM continues doing business like they do now but they produce more modern music and less jazz, country and rock? And we continue to send them the money every December like we do now.

j3.

but what modern content ??
every sngle new sound in the top 200 ?? and style ??
only ones hot that are 'in' in the year ?? or artists ??
but only hot artists might cheese off other users into more alternative non hot artists ?
how do pg decide what new content to provide without detailed user guidance ??...ie whats ones persons meat might be anothers poison...per a roman philiosepher.

please put yourself in the position of pg staff deciding which new modern content to include each year...and the types of thought processes they go thru such as ...i suspect...

1..ok message received loud and clear our user base wants lots of new.modern content. but what content ??..per my opening sentences.
2..what the heck are we gonna do about the ballooning size of our content libs we ssue each year ??..
3..how do we keep users with slow net services happy ??
ie it might take ages for such users to download and get fed up in the process.
4..how do we handle the added different language issues ??
5..what about staffing impacts ??

please j3...answer the above questions and conundrums...
what are your solutions to the 5 points above ?
assume you have your own tech company striving all the time 24/7 to keep diverse user groups all over the world with different cultures and languages happy ?? what would you do ??
im curious to hear your answers to the questions ive posed.
its ok for users to say 'we want modern content'... but the devils in the details....

believe me the logistics are not trivial for the service provider.

i wish you only the best...and look forward to.your asnswers.. if you were tasked in a tech company with keeping diverse groups of users all over the world happy....
i wont even get into the fact that what we in the western world consider modern...people on the asian and african continents might not.

happiness.

om 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

JAOM, you will never convince anyone with that argument. Why? Because every person wants what they need to make what they want to make. It is human nature to see things from our own vantage point. To your point, there are literally thousands of modern EDM, Rap, Hip hop etc, libraries out there in loops, (a feature PGM refine over the last few years) This type of content can then be used to make songs and also make User tracks. VST3 will upgrade another need in modern music. The ability to use better libraries to make tracks.

triple Johns point about it being easier to use BiaB to make Jazz, Rock, Pop, etc has some validity. Still to make the other types of music it takes a bit more work. Personally with looping i don't think it is harder than using a DAW, but still takes more work. What i think would help is to create a couple really good videos on looping modern sounds to create these style tracks. Maybe add a few EDM or Hip Hop RTs to the next couple years If your going to create 225 new RTs how about 25 new Hip hop bass and piano, and 25 new electronic drum sounds them you still have 175 new pop rock country Klezmer and jazz sounds! Hey when is the last time a really good Klezmer tune hit the top of the charts!!! Oh yeah when it battled for dominance with Polka!

.

Floyd, I understand your frustration. I actually really do understand. Many people appreciate where you are coming from, but perhaps not everybody, and then things lose focus.

Your initial post is still the most valuable. Most will agree.

Same here.

I was going to answer OM's 5 questions until I read your post Floyd. The very positive start of this thread has been hijacked enough.

OM, start a new thread with your post and I will answer all 5 questions, probably not to your satisfaction though.

OM.

In days of yore when seeking ideas for a new song my first port of call was BIAB but that is no longer the case. I now start by exploring a sample manager such as COSMOS or ADSR. In the search field I might typically type: cinematic , fm, dance, urban, house, hip hop, lo-fi, electronic, pop, dark, acoustic, edm, modern, synthwave, ambient, trap, atmospheric, breakbeat, soul, dubstep etc etc. At the press of a button voilà - modern contemporary samples which are hiding somewhere on my computer or are available on the web. But after aquiring the desired samples there is work to be done with the risk of losing inspiration and motivation.

As you correctly alluded to OM, samples can be manipulated and placed into a sampler but I have often thought why doesn't BIAB get their Developers and Coders to make a few RT's and Styles in some of the above mentioned genres ? The few RT's currently available that claim to represent some of the above......well.....less said the better.
OM,I think you also alluded to the need for speed to capture inspiration so I repeat " The magic of BIAB is instant gratification via the availability of genre friendly Real Tracks and styles."

OM, For the sake of brevity on other issues that you have raised I agree with John3 on all the points that he has addressed.

Just so everyone knows - I am not bagging PGM. I agree 110% with Floyd's expressions of approval and praise for the brilliant folk behind BIAB. I hope they keep on keeping on, after all, I've been a happy user of BIAB since late last century!

mario.

ok i agree...when i have time ill start a new thread focusing on the diverse needs of users re modern sounds.
and various opinions can be detailed.

i was just trying to mentionto to j3 and others some of the problems
service providers often face.
eg its ok to say to an architect...i want a house...but then the architect has to find out a ton of specs and details of needs of the buyer.
om out.

happiness.

om

.

Because of issues I've stated in another thread on this particular forum, I have very little time to spend on these usually very helpful and interesting forums. But, there are instances when I make the time I don't have.

I agree 100% with Floyd's original post. It is my opinion that PG Music and Dr. Gannon lead the way in the production of content that allows people worldwide to make some pretty darned good music in an extra room, garage, or wherever they create their music. It's pretty close to having your own sophisticated studio with top session players at your fingertips, just waiting for you to call on them at your convenience. For an initial investment of approximately $500.00 US and an annual update of about $150.00 US, I'd say that's a pretty decent arrangement. One live session to record a couple of songs would cost that much or more. Those professional musicians PG Music uses probably don't just show up and contribute their time free of charge. And they're among some of the very best at what they do.

I don't know of many (any?) services/products that offer the full range of options, bells, and whistles that will satisfy the finite needs of every potential customer. PG Music is a business - they have a target audience, and they try to meet the wishes and wants of that audience. But they can't be everything to everybody.

In total, I've written about 1250 songs. Of that total, there are seven songs for which I cannot find a suitable set of tracks to conjure the sound I want. Rather than complain about BIAB, I simply found another software that provided those tracks. I saved them as WAV files and brought them over to BIAB. To get everything we want, we sometimes have to find other products that work well with what we have and cobble them together.

I think PG Music does a fantastic job of meeting the wishes and wants of most of their target audience. I don't expect perfection and answers to everything I wish they had. I just appreciate what their products offer me and look elsewhere to fill in the blanks. And yes, those other products cost money. If you want to attain what BIAB can't provide, ya gotta pony up a little extra cash for added wishes and wants. That's still a lot cheaper than hiring those studio guys and gals. Each of us wishes BIAB could be offered to our own specific liking, but that's an unreasonable expectation.

For folks who can't get what they want from BIAB, I suggest looking around for another product that offers what you do want. But I doubt any other product will answer all your wishes at just about any price. If there is, why aren't you using it instead of BIAB?

Floyd, your original post is spot on, in my opinion. Thanks for posting it. And PG Music, you guys and gals are the best! Thank you.

Wishing everyone the very best in your musical pursuits.

Alan

I notice that most(?) people here are saying how great the content is. What I note from the "white paper" and from the poll is also that the content is great, but perhaps PGM should have a hiatus on new features while they sort out some of the existing issues. That's time they could also spend planning a strategy into the future.

Gordon,

I more or less agree with you. I wouldn't mind a year or two when the biggest emphasis is fixing existing bugs and issues but also adding a few more of the most requested RTs and styles.

But my main point in replying to Floyd's original post is to affirm my agreement with him about how great this product is - even with its faults.

Have fun with your music!

Alan

Ok, I'm not sure how to respond to this thread. I see how it started with the best of intentions and praise for a company that has given us so much. I applaud FJ for thinking of thanking those that deserve to have appreciation show. As always, the thread can't stay about what the thread was created to be.

I probably owe more to PG Music's crew than most of you. It has changed my life and the life of my family. I made a great living with this product. It helped me pay for our homes, vehicles, 6 kids in braces, 4 that went on for school (2 were too young)...you name it. AND my wife didn't work.

I wrote commercial jingles for 27 years. Once BIAB came along I was able to write, and product jingles WAY faster and less expensive than ever before BIAB.

I didn't have to "try" to communicate my ideas to the musicians and wait around for them to cut the tracks. I could add many instruments I couldn't play well, or could play at all! That's hard to beat! No to mention, I could fill out a jingle in a way that wouldn't have been financially feasible otherwise.

If the singer needed the music in a different key? No problem! Give me 15 minutes and I'll have it over to you!

I put a lot of the companies that were my competition unable to match what my company could do. I used to joke with my clients with a play on an old saying. "Inexpensive, Fast, or High Quality? Pick any THREE."

Because I could do so much more, I provided A LOT of work for studios. I can't mix, but had the stems to send! I wish they would have had MMiab. (Mix and Master in a Box). I'm happy I was able to do that. It brings a higher meaning to your "job."

It also put my clients in a great position from not being able to afford a jingle to a great jingle that was affordable.

This has been a miracle product for me.

You will never find me ungrateful for the people who had the vision and action to make such an incredible product. "Thank you!" falls extremely short of the praise I could give this company and product.

Thank you PG Music!

(written with speech to text and not proofed. Just wanted to get it out there.)

Well said HTL. I can count the days that changed my life significantly on the fingers of one hand. One of them was when I purchased Band-in-a-Box. It helped me along a path where I have created a successful music business and given up my day to day grind of working the 9 to 5 as a Business Analyst in a soulless corporation.

Thank you PG Music.

"Y'all just can't stop can ya."

Floyd with all due respect.
Perhaps you are a wee bit peeved because you consider that your op has been somewhat hijacked but that is just the nature of the beast of a public forum. IMO if one choses to broadcast their sentiments on a public forum rather than DM the recipiant then one should not seek to suppress selective public responses as long as they are relevent, courteous and respectful. The irony is that I fully agree with your op.

...and yet it seems like you are. <bagging BIAB>

Sorry you have that perception Floyd. I have been and remain a huge fan of BIAB. But I see clouds on the horizon and believe that more modern RT's are required to appeal to a demograpic that are this side of breathing. If anyone dissagrees or are offended by my opinion I am happy to be shown the errors of my way. I actually want BIAB to be around for a long time and believe the occasional tap on the shoulder is far healthier than constant pats on the back but if the great unwashed think that the status quo is all hunky dory then so be it.
I'm done now, this horse has been flogged enough.

.

Floyd, i apologize if i contributed to any derailment of the thread. I also really love this software and have worked personally behind the scenes to make it better. I have worked tirelessly for the last few years with some inciteful and incredible people here on the site. I have also dialoged with the PGM people with this.

I do think that praise and critique is mutually beneficial. Let's face it BiaB is a powerful, deep and very wonderful program. So many of us have enjoyed the benefits of owning it. While it is important to sing the praise of the program, and your point regarding driving away new customers is interesting, and worthy of consideration. I have to think deeper about that. It is also through open dialog that things get handled.

Bottom line is that there are legitimate issues here that need to be addressed. there are functions unfinished, features that need workflow modernization, and bugs that need fixing. That said we have usually tried to keep that for the most part behind more discreet forum threads. The problem with that is we they sometimes require more voices to gain a response. BiaB is secure for the most part over the next few years, and continued development will assure that. However, with the newer AI competition that will slowly change is some things are not kept up to date.

There have at time been some very loud and divisive voices around here. I do think most of the discussions are reasonable for the most part. Threads of praise usually are sadly met with attacks of choruses protectionalism.

Good for you for leading the chorus of appreciation for what we do have and not just being in the crowd shouting what we don't. You're a class act sir and much appreciated!

(written with text to speech in a hurry. EXPECT typos! This may come across as more snarky than I mean it to. Just no time to edit my article. ha! :))

Izzy, a condescending attitude and gaslighting tactics probably won't go over well here. That's not a threat or anything, it's more of a "heads up" because you are newer to the forum. I would truly love to see you stick around and make some great music! You having 52 posts explaining to someone with over 11,000 posts how this forum works seems a bit off to me. I'm sure you have experience with other forums; but maybe get a bit more of a feel for who you are correcting. FJ happens to be one of the best writers, producers and ambassadors for the product and about the nicest person you will meet on this forum. He's not someone that deals with a lot of flowering language or a pushover though. He truly does listen and can appreciate other peoples views. I just don't like him! (absolutely kidding)

That being said, his whole point in this thread was to give appreciation to those who are involved with making this entire product possible. He sees FIRST HAND what goes into it and how dedicated the people are. There are plenty of other threads that are hammering on what people feel is wrong or needs to be changed. So there is no lack of that content AT ALL. There was definitely a lack of content that showed gratitude for the product. Was it really too much to ask for a thread to be about giving thanks? If someone where to view this COMPANY forum they might think, based off of who many have chosen to go about "change," that the product isn't good. IT'S FANSTIC! Of course there will always be room for improvement. That's any software. It's the reason for upgrades and versions. None of that was what the spirit of this thread was.


You really like to emphasize "public" yet, this isn't a public forum. You can't just roll in here and start spouting off. You need to create an account. It's a private forum with some public access. It is owned by a company. They can delete posts, ban people, and shut the whole thing down if they want to. Much like Walmart is open to the public, but it's still private.


This was meant to be a different, viewable to the public, thanking of the company. Not something for a one on one behind the scenes conversation. I'm not sure if you missed that?

He wasn't looking to suppress responses. Just wow that you think that. He made a thread that had a purpose DIFFERENT from the others that were already created to deal with the subject that was being reinterested here. Suppression would be say not to talk abou that at all. He simply asked not to turn this thread with a different purpose, into being the same as the other threads. To honor the spirit of this post. Even, essentially, encouraging people to express their opinions. in the other threads designed for that already. That's not suppression.


Was it relevant? No. It was straying from being relevant.

Was it courteous? No. Courteous would be sticking to the intent of this thread. Even after it was asked to consider keeping it on topic.

Was it respectful? No. Again for the same reasons.




The second sentence would have been a good start and end considering the OP's intent, IMO


oh no...


I don't think he was disagreeing with with this. At no point did I see him mentioning that they need to stop coming out with new content.

The idea wasn't to ignore possible improvements. It's just that that has been covered so much in other threads. The point of this thread was to talk about a different subject. To thank people who are working hard on a product that many of us enjoy. To show gratitude for that. That's a bit different than feeling the need to interject what you maybe think is wrong wrong with the product.

I have an absolutely awesome marriage. I happen to be lucky enough to be married to the love of my life and best friend. She isn't perfect; and neither am I. But on our anniversary I don't plan on bringing up the things that need to be improved and focus on the things that could be better. I will make damn sure she knows how much I love her and she means to me. We do work on what needs to be worked on though. We both recognize there is a time and place for that though. We try to never confuse the two. It's actually not that hard.

I too am now done. This hi-jacking horse needed to be flogged a bit. FJ has enough sense and class not to say much about this. I lack both and apologize to the thread for further disruption. I love the intent of the thread and hope it continues in a much better way. Not because of what I said; but because I have gotten to know many of you, and know how valuable this product has been and continues to be for us.

I feel this thread was needed and also want to give thanks to FJ for offering some balance.

Please abide by the rules of this forum.

Forum Rules #15: Don't hijack someone else's thread topic with a different topic. For example, if the thread is about "Topic A," don't add a reply in the same thread about a different "Topic B." Instead, start your own thread for "Topic B."

Floyd.

I am fully aware that you are the beloved, highly respected, hugely talented, teacher, mentor, guru and leader of this forum and rightly/deservedly so.
I fully agree with the contents of your original post but I (unwisely as it turns out) responded to the contents of a another posters reply which unfortunatly segued to another trending forum topic. From your response I knew you were hurt which greatly saddened me and I freely appologise for causing you that hurt.
I must admit to being perplexed by your vacillation of the BIAB product which I believe is unique and rock solid but in need of a few rejuvenating tweaks. The sky is not going to fall in any time soon.
I anticipated the predictable circling of the wagons and didn't have long to wait.
David's finger wagging citation of rule #15 , which imo if rigorously enforced would suck the oxygen out of much of the forums discourse.

< from HTL> Izzy, a condescending attitude and gaslighting tactics probably won't go over well here.
HTL I know your drift is well intentioned but your observation is misguided and unfounded.

You having 52 posts explaining to someone with over 11,000 posts how this forum works seems a bit off to me.
Floyd quoted remarks that I made and I was rotating the courtesy of respectfully explaining those remaks, which I stand by.
I believe that Floyd and I are the same age. An age when we no longer tollerate BS.

This post is to you Floyd to appologise for causing you any tribulation. It is certainly not my intent to do so.
I will no longer darken your doorstep.