PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist Bug [Resolved]

I didn't see a section for bugs so I guess I'll report it here as a wish.

I can copy and paste any regular chord from one bar to another, but I can't copy/paste a micro chord bar!

I couldn't reproduce this. I copied bars with micro-chords to other bars successfully.
Steps undertaken:
1: Enter chords A on beat 1, and B on beat 3 of a bar
2: Right click on the bar and select Micro-chord settings <F6>
3: Enter micro-chords A, B C on beat 1 and D,E,F on beat 3 (see screen capture, below)
4: Press OK
5: Select the contents of the bar used in step 1 on the chord sheet and press <ctrl>C
6: Move the cursor to another bar and press <ctrl>V

Alternatively, use the copy function in the micro-chord editor to copy to another bar. Note that the copied micro-chords will not display on the chord chart until the mouse is moved over the 'copied-to' bar.

Successfully copy and paste micro-chords by selecting a bar and using <Ctrl>C and <Ctrl>V:

Additionally, no one here knows how you attempted to achieve this, because you didn't show any details. You only created a post with the nondescript title: 'Bug', and no information at all on how this was ever determined.

I have copy and pasted micro chords a number of times exactly like audio track, thus it is not a bug.
You seam to have a number of issues so would you please follow audio track's suggestion of your workflow. But also post what version of BiaB you are using as well as your system data and anti-stuff programs. The reason is that you may have some virus or malware issues and/or maybe your HD or SSD is failing and/or running out of room.

Hi Mario,
Thanks for your input too.
From other posts, I understand that the O/P is running BIAB 2024 build 1111 on an Ultra Pak.
But I agree with you, unless we know the user's workflow, how can we determine where to find any possible cause?

Thanks AudioTrack.

I have just reproduced the bug on my system.

I don't know why you tried to complicate things with your test?

Here's what I did yesterday (multiple times) and what I did again just now.

I entered the following chords:
| C | F | G | C | (D,A)(E,B) | C | F | G | C

I then selected the first bar with C and hit Ctrl-C (copy).
Then I selected an empty bar and hit Ctrl-V (paste).
The C chord appeared.

I repeated these steps with the second bar (F chord).
The F chord appeared.

I repeated these steps with the fifth bar (micro chord).
No chord appeared !

BiaBman, we are just trying to help!

Are you working in 2/4 time? I just ran some experiments and in 4/4 and 3/4 time the copy and paste works perfectly. But in 2/4/ time it doesn't work at all. In 2/4 time you must use the copy and paste method that is in the microchord window: see attached pic. You may have in fact found a bug.

Addressing the premise in the first post, "I didn't see a section for bugs", we normally make a post in the regular BIAB forum to state the problem and get some verification or education from other users. A problem sometimes catches the attention of a PG Music staffer, but if it doesn't, some of the users who are testers for the company can report the problem to the developers. But step one is to ask a question and make sure it is a bug before calling it one in the post title. Step two is to edit the first post if it is resolved. If the feature really does not exist, step three is to post here.

No harm, however.

Thanks Mario.
I know you are just trying to help.
And I am not trying to make any trouble.

The song is in 4/4 time. I just tried it in 3/4 and it didn't work there either.

I'm using BIAB fresh out of the box. Straight, vanilla BIAB.
Starting a fresh song with three bars.

OK thanks for clarifying Matt.
I am a very occasional user and poster here so I didn't know the protocol for this.

Since you have been using BiaB for 30 years I'm going to assume you are using a PC, correct?
Have you tried using the method in the microchord window? Does it work?
Maybe you could upload the song to the free Dropbox and post the URL so we can take a look at it?
Also the more information we have about your system will help tremendously. Things like CPU speed, HD or SSD, ram, free space on the HD/SSD, etc would be very helpful because at this point it sounds like the problem is with your system; it might not be but without more info we all would still be working in the dark.
Also have you run a full anti-virus scan? Have you used Ccleaner or Anti-Malwarebytes?

The reason I ask is because copy and paste in 4/4 or 3/4 works perfectly on mine and Audio Tracks machines.

Could others please check it out? It would be interesting to see if anyone else is having this problem or not. Thanx.

Thanks again Mario for helping.

Yes I use a PC.
I just tried the MicroChord Window method. It failed.

Pentium Celeron J4105
RAM: 16 G (15.7 G usable currently)
64-bit
Windows 10
SSD: 157 G free space.

I have uploaded the test file to Dropbox for you to test out.
BIAB test link Here is the link.

Of note:
Bar 5 only Bass does micro! But adds a fifth note (C) !
Bars 13, 14 is where I copied micro to. There are No Vibes there now!
Bar 18 N/C.
I froze the tracks so you could hear exactly what I heard.
The tracks were not frozen while I was working with them.

Your system look OK.
I just DLed the SGU but I am tied up this tonight and tomorrow I have a recording session. The earliest I can look at this is probably tomorrow night. Sorry about that.

Have you run Ccleaner, a full virus scan, and an Anti-malware scan? It probably isn't the problem but it is worth checking out if you haven't done it already. If your system is clean then the problem isn't with it.

Thanks Mario. I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase with this.
I'm too rational.
You are telling me someone might have created a sophisticated virus to target BIAB.
But not just any BIAB feature. Specifically the copying and pasting of micro-chords! LOL!!!

Have fun with the recording!

Worked for me:

Here are my results when copying to bars 5 & 6 to bars 13 & 14:

Hmmm, I doubt that this is what Mario was intending. I understood that he was assisting to ensure that your system doesn't have any computer virus. That's all. Nothing more than that.

Thanks for sticking with me on this AudioTrack.
I will continue to do some more experimenting.

One thing of note that maybe you can check for me.

When I click on a regular bar of chords and hit Ctrl-C
I see in the bottom right corner a message highlighted in yellow saying:
"Song copied to the clipboard as text"

I see the exact same message when I click on the microchord!
But this is for something different I believe. For when you paste this
outside BIAB, say into a notepad document, you get a ton of info about the song.

Did you check on bars 5, 13 and 14 about what I wrote?

Note that you will have to add a main chord as well as the micro-chords, because this style consists of held vibes, starting (usually) on the first beat of the bar, with each note (usually) 4 beats in length. There appears to be no place to trigger them from micro-chords. This presumably is a designed part of the specific track RT1217.

When I add a main chord, these vibes play perfectly on the original and copied notes (unfreeze first!):

Yes but I was trying to think through logically what a potential virus would/wouldn't do.

None of my dozens and dozens of apps are 'misbehaving' in any way.
Only BIAB is.

So if I do have a virus, does it make sense that it would only affect BIAB?
See where I am coming from now?

Thanks for that info about the 'main chord'. I did originally have a 'main chord' at the start. But when the micro chords started playing back in a 'wonky' fashion I started to experiment.
I thought the transparent chord (main chord) might be the reason it wasn't working.
I soon discovered I could delete everything in the bar and then add the micro chords and have the
'main chord' disappear. I thought this was a good thing!

Anyway I put back the main chord now and this is what happened.
On the first pass the micro chords played (not the best voicings though).
But... on the second pass I got a triplet feel on the first two chords and (2) 1/16ths , 1/16th rest and 1/16th note on the second beat (three chords instead of two). So back to 'wonky' (buggy) chords.

Yes, I think it's related to how this particular RealTrack was recorded. The notes are quite sparse.

I listened to the soloed vibes demo in the RealTracks picker. The performer doesn't start every note on the first beat, sometimes he plays as a pickup note (like a push). This may affect the result you are hearing when you have a chord on the first beat of the bar. I also tried adding a chord on the 4th beat of the preceding bar and this improved the result somewhat. Not perfect, but perhaps an improvement.

Maybe someone from PG Music can jump in and clarify why you are having so many issues with this style? They will know exactly how the track was recorded.

Yes I hope someone from PG Music can help out.

There are no "soloed vibes" with this Test song. It uses _SMALLHR.STY.
Did you get only Bass notes playing the 'mico chords' in bar 5?
And did you notice the micro chords played by bass only, added a 5th note when there should have been only four?

Did you get the vibes playing in bars 13 and 14?
The micro chords should have been copied there. And the 'copying' affected the G chord in bar 14 because
it doesn't sound either.


"Of note:
Bar 5 only Bass does micro! But adds a fifth note (C) !
Bars 13, 14 is where I copied micro to. There are No Vibes there now!. "

Hi BIABman,

I can reproduce your issue with copying the microchords.

In your earlier post you said...

By "selected", I'm guessing that you left-clicked the mouse on the C chord. This located the cursor at the C chord. Technically, this bar hasn't been "selected" because it's not blacked out at this stage. Pressing CTRL+C, in this instance, will copy the C chord in the first half of the bar. Then, when you locate the cursor somewhere else on the chordsheet, and use CTRL+V, the chord is pasted at this location (even if it's beat 3 of another bar).

When I try the above process with the microchords, clicking on the microchord (without selecting them), pressing CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V does not work.

However, if you select the whole bar as Audiotrack did by clicking on the microchords and dragging the mouse across the bar so that the bar turns black (to show that it's selected), then using CTRL+C followed by CTRL+V works fine.

Regards,
--Noel

Good point Noel, many thanks.

I was presuming that the bar(s) were selected using the standard computer method used for selecting most objects, like holding the <shift> key pressed while clicking on the required bar(s), or with the <shift> key pressed, using the keyboard cursor arrow keys to select them, then pressing Control-C to make the actual copy of the selected objects.

Perhaps BIABman was not selecting bars that way at all?

I'm only guessing, Trev. But since I was able to reproduce BIABman's results doing it that way, it seems like a possibility.

It's interesting because selecting something by simply clicking on it is like clicking on a word in an MS Word document and to select it. This doesn't work and it's necessary to select the whole word in some way. That said, in MS Excel, the contents of a cell can be copied by simply clicking on a cell (and using CTRL+C/V). The underlying structure of the original BIAB chordsheet seems to resemble a spreadsheet's cell rather than the text in a document file. I'm guessing that the microchord addition to the chordsheet is more akin to a document overlay on the original spreadsheet-like base.

I think that's probably a very accurate assumption. Yes, some sort of overlay is probably in place.
Thanks for your input, as Mario and I have been trying to get this resolved for a few days now, it's really appreciated
Trev

This is getting real interesting.
If I click on just the micro chords CTRL C & V doesn't' work. BUT if I highlight the entire measure CTRL C & V does work!
Would someone please verify on your machines.

PS - this illustrates how important it is to fully describe ones workflow and system specs when asking for help.

Mario, yes, I was always highlighting the entire measure(s) with mouse select (see my animated screen captures), and presumed that the O/P was doing the same. But perhaps they did not use the same approach. I never presumed that one could successfully select half a measure with a single click. The cell doesn't even highlight the same way.

I also was using the highlight the measure(s) and using the mouse technique to copy them.
I didn't think anyone would/could copy and paste a half a measure either but I thought maybe that was what he was doing. As we said without his entire workflow we are flying blind and doing things the way WE do things and not necessarily His way of doing things.

Thanks Noel, AudioTrack and Mario for staying with me on this!

We have finally solved the 'copying' problem! Almost.

You are correct. I wasn't selecting by making the cell look black. I was simply clicking on the cell, that's all.
I say "Almost" because why is it that when I use this method for any non-micro chord cell, I can copy and then paste a chord to another bar?
Why is BIAB fussy about this only with micro chords?

Anyway, I've learned the trick and people need to be warned about this, OR PGMusic might be able to
allow micro chords to be copied using the same method (simply clicking on a bar).

Now let's continue because we are not out of the woods yet. We just solved the copying problem.

(BTW, the copying problem was the least of all my recent concerns.)

* I need to add a little more here on the copying. Up until now I had only tried the Micro Chord menu method for copying the micro chords just a few times, without any success. I just did a few more tests now with this method and here are the results:

One more copying 'quirk'.
The micros were only copied when the cell to be copied to was hovered over/clicked on OR
when any other cell was clicked on.

OK now that we've got the copying part out of the way, we still have some work to do, because there still are underlying bugs with the micro chords.

AudioTrack stated above that the 'main chord' is needed because the style I am using consists of held vibes???
He said the micro chords need to be triggered. This is news to me. Why do micro chords need to be "triggered".

If I type a C in a bar I expect to hear a C chord.
Why shouldn't I expect to hear a C and G in a bar if I type a micro chord with (C,G)?
-------------
Next test:
Bar 5 has Main chord C and micro chords (C,G)(C,G) on first two beats.
Bar 9 has just micro chords (C,G)(C,G) on first two beats.

Bar 5 plays a C chord and on top of that the Bass plays the 'micro chords' but also adds a fifth 'micro chord' after that.
Of course they aren't micro chords but rather single bass notes.

Bar 9 plays just the micro chords, but not by the Vibes!
The Bass once again plays the 'micro chords'. Single notes and also adds a fifth 'micro chord' after that!

Of course the bass should not be playing the micro chords alone and there should NOT be a fifth note played.

To me these are bugs. They are reproducible.

I tried to explain that the style consists of held chords, which generally start on the first beat of the bar. Micro-chords don't necessarily start on the first beat of the bar. So if the recording doesn't have a note to play on e.g. 'the and of the first beat', because no sound has ever been recorded at that point, you won't necessarily expect to hear anything from that micro-chord position.

Remember that RealTracks are pre-recorded audio passages, not MIDI. If the performer didn't record anything on that beat position, there's nothing to play back.

Try temporarily changing that track to a MIDI style and see if there is a difference.
Alternatively, try changing that track to some other style (not vibes) and see if there is a difference in what plays on those specific bars / beats. That might assist you to understand that if there are no notes recorded at those positions by the recording artist, then there is nothing available to play back.

Thanks again AudioTrack.
I'm still trying to understand the basic concepts of BIAB and audio,

I listen to a style and like it. In this case it's mostly long held chords for each bar.
How do you and I know that the musician who recorded the style didn't ALSO record a bunch of other stuff during their recording session that's there to be called upon if necessary? Perhaps consisting of syncopated stuff?
Starting on beat 4 or beat 1& etc. etc. etc.?

I don't understand how you can say "Oh the micro chords can only be played IF the main chords occur here and there". That totally baffles me.
Unless someone from PG Music tells me otherwise, I'd think that a micro chord can chop up anything that the musician recorded at their session. So it can take a long held chord and chop it up into pieces.
Or are you also saying that micro chords can only be played if the musician recorded 'x' number of micro chords?
That's a heck of a lot of micro chords to record!
Every main chord they recorded and then chopped up, sliced and diced.

Thanks.
The further and further I go down this rabbit hole the more complicated and weird things get.
One thing about BIAB that's a certainty.
There's never a dull moment with the program.

I couldn't figure out how to swap the audio parts for midi so I went for a change of style.
I swapped _SMALLHR for _SJAZZC1 and got more unexpected results.

I am working with the same chords:
Bar 5 has a 'main chord' of C plus two micro chords, (C,G) and (C,G) on beats one and two.
Bar 9 has NO 'main chord' but has two micro chords, (C,G) and (C,G) on beats one and two.

This is what I heard:
Bar 5 played the micro chords straight this time using the Electric piano and bass played them too.
Bar 9 played the micro chords straight this time using the Electric piano and bass played them too.
BUT along with this a C chord was played right after the micro chords DESPITE there being NO C CHORD
in the chart!
It did it in bar 5 and 9.
So once again unexpected results.

Not to mention the highly disturbing liberties that BIAB is taking, by ignoring the chords I typed in!
Playing a bunch of upper extensions on my F7 chord and changing one of my G chords to G7!

About this part, take a look at the article I wrote in Tips and Tricks: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=694482#Post694482

I think that's taken a little out of context. With this Style, the vibes (generally) play on the first beat of the bar, and not on any other beat position.

Remember that this is an audio recording. If there is nothing already recorded on one of the micro-chord positions then there is no audio available to play back. But you can add a chord to the first beat of the bar and then, if there is audio available at that beat position, it can be played back.

I'm not sure how I can explain that more clearly. This is pre-recorded audio. It's not made up on the fly like MIDI. If there's no audio ever recorded on a different part of the bar, then there's nothing to play back. But for this style, there is usually audio recorded on the first beat. That's not a bug at all. If no audio was recorded at other beat positions, then how can one expect sound to be delivered?

I changed the Vibes track to MIDI using the Vibes from HeldBosa.Sty





As I expected, the micro-chords play, because this is MIDI, not a pre-recorded audio passage where no audio was originally recorded at those other beat positions.

👍

Please give the above MIDI substitution a try and see if that delivers something that you are more ideally looking for. It gives long held chords, similar to the vibes in _SMALLHR Style, but can follow the micro-chords you so desire:

Thanks again Audio Track for helping!
I followed all of your steps above and made the Midi substitution.
But....

As soon as I hit either Play or Regen.
The substitution changes from what you/I entered to:
Piano Custom MIDI Style: 1 Acoustic Piano

Even if I FREEZE the track!!!
It never stuck to what I changed it to!

Anyway. I'm bailing out now on this.
I appreciate all the effort you have put into this.
I mentioned a few times above that the micro chords are the least important of all the problems I was having.

Again the most important thing for me is to get as full a sound as possible, like the Band demos Peter linked to at the beginning of one of these threads.

Once I have that I should be able to manage my way to a decent-sounding song.

Here's the song with the MIDI Vibes substituted. Note that I have frozen the Vibes track. Unfreeze if you want to alter anything / regenerate.

Test Song with MIDI Vibes

Good luck!

Thanks AudioTrack again!
Yes, you managed to get the correct Midi vibes to stick (I wasn't able to as I mentioned).
But what happened to the Bass part? It's gone when I play the song.
I just hear the Vibes and Drums (brushes).

Try this one:
BIAB MIDI Vibes Test Song
All I did was unfreeze and regenerate. The Bass is playing OK now on my system. I didn't check the bass previously (too busy getting the vibes right....)

Also, you might consider opening your original post and marking it 'Resolved', there's a button for that.

I don't believe that this is a bug, it's completely related to the way that the vibes performance has been played in the actual recording of this specific RealTrack audio.

The RealTrack memo includes the statement: "The simple version of Vibes, Rhythm Jazz Sw 110 omits busy riffs and some non-diatonic tensions." The vibes are mostly played as long 'held' chords.

BiaBman, on a side note you have asked about getting the same or similar sound as on the demos. To do so you will need a few plug-in effects; note NOT the effects that come with BiaB. If you already have good effects then you can just ignore this message. You should have at least the following effects:
1-reverb
2-delay
3-EQ
4-compressor
5-limiter

A good place to start looking for some of these are at waves :
https://www.waves.com/plugins#sort:path~type~order=.default-order~number~asc|views:view=grid-view|paging:currentPage=0|paging:number=18

There are other individual instrument effects that are very helpful.

PS - there are many other companies other than Waves that produce great effects. I just chose them as they are all in one place., Note that I do not work for or represent Waves in any way, I just like and use many of there effects. YMMV

Thanks Mario!
👍

I re-read this thread. I’m wondering if a Pentium Celeron J4105 meets the required minimum specs to run microchords successfully.

But I still think AudioTrack has identified a good reason since this is about vibes. I play vibes. The approach to playing the instrument is to use what it does wonderfully: sustain notes. I don’t think microchords would do a good job chopping up prerecorded audio to stick a sound on a specific short location. I could be wrong on that assumption.

biabman...re celeron j4105....

re the foollowing if you doubt my advice go to gearspace.com
where studios large and small hang out and ask there for comments re celeron j4105 for music production. cos i dont want to irk anyone..just trying to help.

note the stats on this processir eg single thread around 1100.
i recommend 3000 score for a music creation pc.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+J4105+%40+1.50GHz

the above site has great processor comparison stats.
compare on the site the celeron stats and other processors.
eg single thread and math stats.

on the tips forum are tips on acquiring or useing a pc for music production.
note...for a few hundted bucks one can get refurb pc or new pc eg my ryzen mini
pc that blows the doors off. see my tips for more info.


hth someone.

om

I guess I was sometimes trying to politely identify that this might have been a 'picnic' situation.

Thanks muso.
Many here take things for granted.

I mentioned in another thread already that I am very sensitive to EMF's.
When I was putting together my new system a few years ago, my number one priority
was to get components (CPU etc.) that were low-powered!!!

Over the years I noticed that low power translates into low impact on my head!
So I would rather have a slower system and put up with all its 'downsides'
if it means I will feel and stay healthy.

Biabman.

very understandeable...
just a couple of shot in the dark ideas.

1...on gearspace.com are a ton of studios large and small.
and also various very very expereienced electonics engineers.
if were me i would start a thread there on gs detailing your emf situation and asking for advice on a new pc with the following attributes....
....very very low emf and
....with a processor with a single thread score around 3000..

2...another idea might be talk to companies that specialise in building turnkey systems for recording studios.
these are often very experienced builders includeing silent pc's...
and might have good ideas re a very very low e.f pc.
once again such builders often hang out on gearspace.
they often hang out also at the reaper.fm forums.

or just google builder of pc's for recording studios.
eg one of many...
!https://silentpc.com/daw/
but such custom pc's might not solve the problem...
but it doesnt hurt to ask...and thus get a written assurance of very low emf.
a final idea is mini pc's are very cheap and now powerfull.
eg my ryzen cost few hundred bucks....and rb reports i can do crazy track counts.

if were me i might contact such companies eg beelink or geekom
or others and see what they can do for you.
maybe also contact pc manufacturers like lenovo or hp or asus or acer
ie their support folks and see if they have any ideas re low emf.

on any purchase i would get assurance that you can return the pc
if in fact it gives you problems....

just some ideas.

i hope you get a solution at some point that addresses emf...

happiness.

om

Thanks muso I've made a note of your post.

Thanks Matt.
You offered two possibilities as to what's causing the problem.

I took some extra time now to rule out your first possibility.

I took the original commercial recording of the song and merged it with BIAB's version of it.
If your theory was correct (my system is too slow to play it properly) then it wouldn't be able to play the
commercial recording properly either. But it does play it properly.

Please listen to the link below.

I have recorded the bars with the 'micro chords' three times for each version.
First you'll hear the commercial version and then BIAB.
(Of note, the guitar is covering up much of the vibes in these bars, in the commercial version.)

As far as your second possibility is concerned, I don't see why a sustained sound can't be chopped up to fit these
BIAB <cough> 'triplets'.

Original vs. BIAB

Yes, I don’t know about my second point. It’s just a possibility. It also still may be related to my first point.

About my first point, no, and this reveals a very common misconception. The least powerful PC from 15 years ago with a Realtec chip will play any prerecorded audio file just fine. That just isn’t a useful comparison. What’s harder to understand is that almost any DAW will play back a massive project, if you adjust the playback buffers properly. Here’s the important point: BIAB is not like any other audio program you are likely to use. Although BIAB 2024 greatly improved the generation of RealTracks, BIAB puts a lot of stress on your computer resources to do what it does. The only analogy I’ve seen that comes close is something like Song Master Pro taking many minutes to generate stems when run on an underpowered machine. Make no mistake, your processor is underpowered for what you are doing.

Well that's news to me.

I've got dozens of apps that I run and none has complained yet.
If you are saying that BIAB is complaining when it tries to run the triplets you'll have to prove it to me.

That is, take my song, run it on your faster computer, and make a recording of the triplets as they SHOULD sound.
When I hear it played like triplets, smoothly I'll believe it!

I played the drop-box audio.
Question: Is there a reason that it is 33 seconds of audio followed by 7 minutes and 12 seconds of silence?

If I understand correctly, there seems to be a misunderstanding about the 'commercial demo' and BIAB's version. The 'commercial' version is a pre-made audio file. It doesn't need BIAB to generate anything to listen to it. It's a pre-made audio recording. The BIAB demo version needs BIAB to generate and perform the music. Can you follow the difference? It's quite a significant difference.

What did PG Music support say about their demo and why you can't satisfactorily achieve the same result?

biabman.

i agree with matt...please allow me to point out something.
and please note we all here are sincerely trying to help you.

often people will say to me many many times over the years ...why the hey can i run all my apps on my pc but then music creation apps either crash or go pear shaped on me.

the answer mate is music production apps are completely different than say a email or spreadsheet or other app. totally different coding structures need to be used by the daw programmers.

one extremely important difference is daws and biab are very
time dependent...whereas if there is a bit of a lag re most apps the user wont notice unless it gets really looong.

in summary its all about action and reaction.
in music apps the music app has to always be in INSTANT react mode and one must understand that win is not a real time operating system...
thus the daw programmers use look ahead buffer techniques to create an illusion of quick reaction for the user.

if you want to run a fun test sometime and its a great test of a pc...
in a daws timeline start clicking randomly while tracks play back.and notice how fast the daw and pc react.
now on a couple of tracks you will prolly hear no lag BUT as the track count goes up and/or plugins are added which consume more pc resources youll start to hear a lag as the pc struggles to keep up...until finally everyhing goes pear shaped.
Ie the pc just cant keep up mate.

in summary music apps are doing a ton of things in the background that a normal app isnt doing to create an ILLUSION of instant reaction.

what ive explained to folks in the past is a desert island analogy.
imagine a desert island with 2 people on it and one supply of food...
they are prolly ok while waiting a few days to be rescued...but...
now imagine 100 people on the same island...all hey is gonna break out and fights for the one golden food source....its all about competition for scarce resources.

bottom line is music production is very demanding of pc resources.
particularly as track and plugin counts grow mate.
biab is doing a ton of things in the background lots of normal apps arent. one cant compare the two.

wanna test any pc out ??
heres how i used to do it ...any pc i was thinking of buying i would install a daw on...i had a friendly pc shop...then i would start clicking on the time line after adding tracks and plugins.....and see at what point the lag got bad.
Ie action and reaction.

My very best advice to you biabman...and i mean this in the most friendliest sincerest way is to find a more powrfull low emf pc if you can at some point mate....and make sure you can return it if in fact it doesnt have low emf.
if were me as i said before i would contact refurbishers of pc's...mainstream manufacturers of normal pc's ..mini pc manufacturers ....and particularly most importantly if wereme i would contact builders of computers for recording studios...
eg adkproaudio or studiocat or silentpc and others...and see if they can help. maybe also intel and amd and manufacturers of pc power supplies and ssd storage devices etc etc....ie the parts comprising a pc.

sincerely i hope the above helps.

happiness

om. 🇨🇦🇨🇦 🇬🇧🇬🇧

Thanks for your reply AudioTrack!

Good first question. I was putting together the commercial and BIAB recordings inside Reaper.
As many know here Reaper is dripping with tons of features. Like BIAB, I don't use Reaper very often either.
When I exported my finished file from Reaper I didn't even realize I was exporting the entire commercial song (muted).
I had isolated the couple of bars that we can hear, onto another track but, but didn't cut out the original whole song.
Thus we got the 7+ minutes of silence.


I understand what you are saying.
I gave Matt a challenge yesterday and I will extend it to you and anyone else who might wish to take it up.

1. Fire up BIAB on your super duper computer system.
2. Punch in the micro chords (E9,F9) (E9,F9) a few bars into the song, using the _JAZVIBE.STY.
3. Play the song.

If you can get the micro chord bar to play smooth triplet eighths I'll be your monkey's uncle.

* Note. This challenge goes out to only those who have a super duper computer system!
If you have a wimpy computer like mine you are ineligible to take part.


I think you are mixing together a few different topic posts I made here.
In one post I was trying to get a style to sound like the band demo they have at their website.
The techie told me that the band demos are not styles and I couldn't use them as such. ie I wouldn't be able to get the same sound in BIAB.

A tech also worked with me in chat on the micro chords, but we didn't get very far with that.

biabman...

ok ill bite..love the fun of trying...lol.
my comments...

need a clarification...

there are a few demos re jazvibe style in stylepicker.
which demo do you want me to use ?...and tempo ??...then ill modify it with triplets....and test.


the problem your experiencing ...and i might get egg on my face as im not a jazzpro...im a rocker... might be how the style was created...maybe pick up notes ?? so your hearing 'bunny hops' instead of straight triplets ??
over the years ive noted some creativity re how the generated tracks are created.
sometimes i have to do subtle editing.

it would be better if you posted the bb sgu somewhere so i and other bb users can test and so we all are working from the same reference song.
gonna be fun.

im just watching euro soccer on fox tv here.

happiness..

om

Thanks again for helping om.
OK I have posted the song with its style. Here is the link.
Micro chord test song

This BIAB song would be an excellent tool to train aspiring jazz pianists wishing to play in the spastic style of Thelonius Monk.

Enjoy your soccer game!

bbman...

dropbox wants me to sign up ...sigh...please use an alternate..so i dont have to go thru the rigmerole.


thanks.

om

Well I like to think I have a "super duper computer system", However, using your file and editing however possible, best I could get was everything except "smooth triplet eighths"

Thanks for trying Dan, I really appreciate it.

Gee I didn't know one needed a Dropbox account to download the file.
I'll see if I can find another site then.

Om,

You don't need to sign up for Dropbox to get the file.
1) Click on "Download" when you first encounter it.
2) Then, when you get to the below sign-in window, click on "Continue with download only" at the bottom of it.

--Noel

Thanks Noel for helping out!

OK, I'm back home today on my reasonably super-duper system.

First, yes, your description of Thelonius Monk is just right to describe the first beat. And that's not a compliment to Monk; I always wondered a bit when I heard his playing. The second beat, I might describe as someone falling down the stairs while playing.

Now, why?

The first thing I see is that you call have been discussing triplets, but the Microchords dialog does not show that. The Chordsheet shows E9,,F9. Note the two commas. This sets up a triplet with the missing middle note.

I didn't yet listen to what you are trying to accomplish, and whether it is supposed to be Swing feel. Give me some time later.

Interestingly, Bar 17 does sound like triplets, but you didn't enter any chords there. I have no idea why that one worked, at least to my ear. Perhaps the program saw the attempted rhythm in bar 16, and although it played that spastically, it "got the idea" to do something similar in bar 17 comping, and got it right. We users can only guess at that one.

Fun little project.

Noel...

thanks i must be getting stupid as i age...

in my defence my wife was dangling in front of me a nice souvlaki dinner...
im a sucker for that...lol

om off to test now...

note bbman...

matt is way better than i at music theory.
i was distracted in music theory class years back by my new lovely music teacher...
yep im a sucker lol.

Thanks again Matt for taking the time on this.

Interesting find. I didn't even notice it.

Allow me to explain. First off, when I'm talking about 'triplets' I'm talking about the potential to play, one, two, or three of the triplet notes per beat. And in ALL the configurations:

one note on first beat
one note on second beat
one note on third beat
two notes (on first and second beat)
two notes (on first and third beat)
two notes (second and third beat)
three notes on first, second and third beats.

In my case, I was hoping for the traditional jazz 'swing eighth notes' to be played by BIAB, where jazzers wouldn't even write anything but eighth notes and the player knows they are to be played as triplet eighths.

You mentioned the E9,,F9 showing in the micro chord dialogue box. At first I was puzzled, but quickly figured it out.
It allows a user to use any of the seven possible configurations I mentioned above.
So in my case, it uses by default the most common (swing eighths). I did not enter the two commas, it put them in itself.


I could give you the entire recording I am working with so you know the feel for I'm aiming for with these micro chords.
But basically the feel is all there in this link I posted earlier, comparing the commercial recording with BIAB's attempt at the triplet chords.

Commercial vs. BIAB micro chords


Yes that was certainly wacky!
I didn't even know there was music in bar 17. I stopped listening before BIAB got that far on playback.
But you are right, isn't that strange? It is playing the triplets correctly in that bar despite there not being any chords entered there!

I think I got it now. In the future, I won't enter any chords or notation in bars where I want micro chords.
I will just think of them and BIAB will work its telepathy magic and bingo, the chords will be there, invisible of course.

bbman.

my comments...

1...this has nothing go do with a pc at this point as it uses miniscule pc resources.
oodles of tracks would of course consume lots of resources.
and if you had midi tracks in bb driving resource hungry orchestra libraries plugins...whole different story.
best bet on your celeron is...if doing large projects...monitor pc resource useage via win task manager.
fyi ive seen people lulled into a false sense of security until one more track or plugin brings the whole house of cards down.
let me stress im not trying to be insulting...ive just seen too many probs in the past with lower end processors.
for example in your daw running lots of imported tracks generated from bb and a bunch of resource heavy plugins dfifferent story.
ie per my desert island story upthread.

2...did you want swing ??

3...ok i didnt have any technical hiccups or stumbles here...
its more related to the arrangement of the chords...
am i correct on the e9 chord you want 'da da da'...and followed by f9...
'da da da' again....ie 2 triplet sets ?? e9 followed by f9 ??
ie e9/e9/e9//f9/f9/f9. in one bar ??...// being seperator.

4...frankly ...and matt is way more expert than i...i write songs by feel.
im bad at theory....but one comment i feel is appropo is i think it might be the way the vibes rt works...ie in some ways this is non rigid freeform jazz ?? and thus tracks are not so rigid ??

5...i feel given your triplet need maybe if you want stricter triplets you might use a piano roll or midi kbd to enter the triplets and then quantise. in this case the midi track would drive a plugin set to vibes.
because in this case...the vibes track when i erased the bb audio track bb didnt ask md to keep the midi track...ie there didnt seem to be an associated mici track..i would try a midi supertrack and see if you can get a better triplets result. because try as i might i couldnt get the strict da da da ie e9 followed by da da da ie f9.
i think its just the way the style works....and a stricter triplet midi track might work better.

now i...lol...await matt to tell me im wrong and out to lunch as he is a guru at this stuff compared to i.
i ducked out of theory class often cos i was dating at the time...
i cant say more on these forums lmao.

now im off t o have another go at your song ...BUT...useing a midi supertrack this time to replace the vibes...

happiness.

om. 🇨🇦🇨🇦. 🇬🇧🇬🇧

happiness.

om

Thanks for confirming what I thought muso.


Yes, definitely, triplet 'swing eighths'.


No you don't understand what I am after.
As I explained to Matt, if there was a melody, as jazzers we would simply write a string of eighth notes and nothing more. All jazzers know they are to be played as 'swing eighths' (triplet feel).
The chords that you see on beats 1 and 2 are meant to be played in a triplet feel.
There are only two chords on each beat, not the three you wrote above.
So BIAB please play these two micro chords as triplet feel!


I have no idea how the vibe tracks work as opposed to any other real track. I do know that Peter's brother Oliver is a jazz musician (maybe Peter is too?) and so they are always conscious of jazz application with their coding.


While midi/midi keyboard etc.might end up giving me the triplet feel I am after you need to know where I am coming from.
First of all, this is not a make or break BIAB song. I could even LEAVE out the triplet chords and it would be OK!
Second, I am more after the principle now, how BIAB works (or doesn't work). If BIAB adds a feature, it should work, out of the box.
Plain and simple.