|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,831
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,831 |
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709 |
Can't read it there w/o creating an account but, wow, it’s all over the major news services. Get out the popcorn!
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401 |
"But it’s “obvious” what their music generators were trained on, according to the lawsuits. Their models could only succeed in producing such realistic songs, the suits stated, if they had been trained on “vast quantities of sound recordings from artists across every genre, style, and era” — many of which remain copyrighted by these record labels."As I understand this litigation, I'm with the artists. But I think they face an up hill battle. They need more evidence than "It's obvious . . .". They need the training data to be fully and honestly disclosed. But unless a Judge orders it, such taining data will never be disclosed voluntarily. This site does not require a log in. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/us-record-labels-are-suing-ai-music-generators-alleging-copyright-infr-rcna158660
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709 |
The below quote from Billboard well summed it up. I would think a lawsuit from those companies given their resources would be a bit intimidating.
“Filed by plaintiffs Sony Music, Warner Music Group and Universal Music Group, the lawsuits allege that Suno and Udio have unlawfully copied the labels' sound recordings to train their AI models to generate music that could "saturate the market with machine-generated content that will directly compete with, cheapen and ultimately drown out the genuine sound recordings on which [the services were] built."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401 |
Sadly, and in the end, I think the artists will lose; here's my logic.
Just because a music-generating AI was not trained on an artist's songs does not mean that the AI is incapable of producing music very close to that of that artist . . . and "close" means close enough to be commercially successful in the marketplace. The technology might not be fully developed yet but it will be.
This is because even the developers of today's large AI models do not and cannot fully understand them. There are simply too many interactions between the layers and connections to be grasped by a human. In part, this is why AI models can "hallucinate". This attribute of hallucination (or unpredictableness) is being exploited in fields such as drug discovery where you are looking for unknown, unexpected and useful connections between molecules so that the chemistry of a novel drug compound that solves a particular problem is derived.
Let's say you train an AI on data that is restricted to the works by The Eagles, Tom Petty, Chicago, CSNY, SuperTramp and The Beatles. I claim that it is more than just theoretically possible for this AI to produce songs very close in sound and style to that of the Doobie Brothers.
So imho, the copyright laws will need to be restrictive enough to say "no matter what training data was used, the output of the AI cannot sound like copyrighted work". I don't know if that is even possible. Who decides the definition of "sounds like"?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114 |
The claim that the AI has been trained on copyright material has been verified by a number of people. Although Udio and other companies have made it difficult to ask for a song in the style of a specific artist, people have been able to write prompts to get around that limitation and get ABBA's harmonies, or Paul McCartney's voice.
It's the same sort of thing that happened when AI image programs didn't let you write "Mario", so people used "video game plumber" and got... Mario.
When an AI program is "trained" on a song, that song is stored in the neural network. Even if it's a fairly coarse copy, it's still enough of a copy that, if given the rights prompts, the original song could be reproduced.
AI programs aren't trained on just a handful of songs. They're fed millions of songs. That's why they are able to generate such a variety of material.
But you can feed in the works of The Eagles, Tom Petty, Chicago, CSNY, Supertramp and The Beatles and generate songs all day long, and you're still not going to get Michael McDonald's throaty vocals, or the chugging guitar on "Long Train Runnin'".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709 |
I intentionally skirt on the periphery of these AI issues even though I’ve had a lifelong interest in science. IMHO and FWIW we’ve no notion of where it’s going. When I was a kid in the 50’s I constantly read about how by 1970 we’d all be flying around mile high skyscrapers in our personal little jets. 😀 Perhaps my comment is not analogous but many predictions based on the best science at the time have gone ridiculously awry. That said this technology is moving stunningly rapidly.
Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
Like hell. This is just the latest step. One of the big problems is that the laws that need to be enforced are not on the books yet. Who decides the definition of "sounds like"? That’s easy. The US Congress and the EU. Some of us have been involved in this effort for over two years, now. There’s little enthusiasm for getting anything done as of yet. So far, all we have is the Librarian of Congress and the WGA & Equity agreements based on her decisions. The courts are treating that as law but it isn’t. When it really gets to be fun is when some clever law firm figures out that sound-a-likes are not a copyright issue because they aren’t. Like an artist’s image, this is trademark territory and there’s a lot of precedent in that field.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 325
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 325 |
I find this YT interesting. It says music companies and copyright owners making law suits to protect themselves, since they want to make their own AI models of their artists for themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,162
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,162 |
...music companies and copyright owners making law suits to protect themselves, since they want to make their own AI models of their artists for themselves. I've been in the electronics and software business all my adult life and for a long time now companies have filed patents on things or principles that are sometimes so obvious that one would expect nobody would want to patent them, usually working on the "novel use" principle. There is essentially no value in the idea itself. The aim is simply to be a disruptor ... to make life difficult for the opposition. I expect it's the same in other businesses. Good video. I wonder if it'll make any difference.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120 |
I can't believe that everyone does not see what's really going on here.
Has no one noticed the sudden proliferation of too-good-to-be-true synth voices on the band-in-a-box songwriters forum??
Has no one noticed Dr. Peter Gannon himself producing how to videos on using AI with band-in-a box?
Has it not occurred to you that random samples from Kontakt or the band lab samples page cannot reproduce the sound of the Doobie Brothers?
Has it never dawned on anybody that the best AI program in the world can only create a very bad parody of a hit song but not actually perform one because they don't have anyone who actually knows how to play anything?
Have you not understood that the only program in the world that can actually play a carbon copy of a stolen Doobie Brothers song with nothing more than a chord progression that has been cleverly ripped off is:
Band-in-a-Box???
And all those devil children who lurk on the Band-in-a-Box Forum with their AI generated Devil Songs???
Bu ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
Welcome to AI hell my friends!!!!
You walked right in through the front door! Bu ha ha ha ha!!!
You can check in, but you can never leave!!!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
Has no one noticed the sudden proliferation of too-good-to-be-true synth voices on the band-in-a-box songwriters forum?? Uh yea... Not sure that it's any worse than all of those songwriter demos from the '60s–'70s that sounded like Barry McGuire and Harry Nilsson or the '70s–'90s demos that sounded like Livingston Taylor. Of course, they were recorded by Barry, Harry and Livingston... Trivia: I once asked P.F. Sloan why there was no actual "pounding of the drums" as mentioned in his lyrics to the 1965 mega-hit, "Eve of Destruction" — I don't count the toms in the intro. He told me that it was a one-hour demo session and that the record company liked it so much, it was released within a week. Barry McGuire was just the demo singer after leaving the New Christy Minstrels; it was never shopped to any of the artists that Sloan had in mind. Hal Blaine never got a second bite at the drums to re-do or overdub his track to match the lyrics.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120 |
I love this Rick Beato video. I think he nailed it.
The commercial music industry is profiting from the massive proliferation of music that epitomizes utter laziness sold to consumers who have no taste.
That is the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,829
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,829 |
[quote]Trivia: I once asked P.F. Sloan why there was no actual "pounding of the drums..." Mike, nice bit of trivia. Sometimes "genius" is just a fortunate accident. I think Eve of Destruction is pretty near perfect, recognizing that it shouldn't be. Always enjoy your historical perspectives.
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
StudioCat DAW dual screen
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,868
PG Music Developer
|
|
PG Music Developer
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,868 |
Are any of the AI sounds extracted directly from copyrighted material, or does it use different set of loops/synths/samples to create tracks that sound similar to the copyrighted material that it was trained on, without actually having directly sampled audio from the copyrighted material?
Jeff Yankauer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114 |
Are any of the AI sounds extracted directly from copyrighted material, or does it use different set of loops/synths/samples to create tracks that sound similar to the copyrighted material that it was trained on, without actually having directly sampled audio from the copyrighted material? Neither - the audio isn't stored in the way you are describing. AI is "trained" on the audio. The training process consists of the data (in this case, potentially copyright audio) being fed into a self-organizing neural network, and some output being created. The match between the output and the expected output is then measured to create an error value, and the weights in the neural network are adjusted so the next time the same input is given, it will be closer to the desired output. For the sake of creating an example, imagine that the AI was being trained to generate 4 seconds of audio. The input might be "lion roar", and the output would be audio representing the roar of a lion. But what would that audio actually look like? It reality, it probably wouldn't be the exact audio stream, because that's a lot of computation. Instead, it would likely be a series of 10ms frames, with each frame representing the audio as a spectral envelope. A spectral envelope is a coarse representation of the energy that exists within the frequency bands. There are various ways of converting spectral envelopes into audio. So right off the bat, the audio that's being generated is an inexact representation of the sound. The job of the AI is to predict what the energy levels in the spectral bands is going to be over the course of 4 seconds. At 4000 milliseconds per second, that's 1600 frames. It's likely to have some sort of "memory", so that network might keep track of the last 20 frames as part if its input. So the actual question to the neural network would be more like "Given this as the last 20 frames, and the target being "lion roar", predict the values for the 40 spectral bands in the next frame". The neural network is a self-organizing network, so it's anyone's guess what the innards of the network are going to be. But you're not going to find any "sampled audio" in the network. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that the network won't replicate the copyright audio that it was trained on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,574
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,574 |
Thanks, yes, the law will have to catch up. "(3) A person is liable to a civil action if the person “distributes, transmits, or otherwise makes available an algorithm, software, tool, or other technology, service, or device, the primary purpose or function of which is the production of an individual's photograph, voice, or likeness without authorization from the individual or, in the case of a minor, the minor's parent or legal guardian, or in the case of a deceased individual, the executor or administrator, heirs, or devisees of such deceased individual.” At the same time, concerns have been raised by some, including Vanderbilt Law School entertainment and intellectual property law professor Joseph Fishman, that the law is overbroad and could bar or chill legitimate conduct or speech. Interested parties should carefully monitor how the law is interpreted and enforced by courts in the coming months with the help of a team of attorneys competent in First Amendment, AI, personal rights, and intellectual property issues." It will be interesting to see how natural creation in a genre (The Beatles influenced by Beethoven or The Beach Boys) is any different than sampling, or technologies in BIAB and the new machine learning output.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,831
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,831 |
Are any of the AI sounds extracted directly from copyrighted material, or does it use different set of loops/synths/samples to create tracks that sound similar to the copyrighted material that it was trained on, without actually having directly sampled audio from the copyrighted material? From what I understand, none of them are using any of the copyrighted materials, samples, or loops to make the music and lyrics. They were "taught" or "learned" on the songs that are copyrighted. I guess much in the same way a student of music might study the Beatles or the Stones and then use what they learned to write their own original music and lyrics. Chord progressions and structure are not copyrightable. The way I see it would be if I or any other writer would dare to listen to a song on the radio, study it, and then use what I learned to write my own song...could I get sued for that? Apparently so according to the premise of this law suit. We all need to watch out if that is the case. While messing around with the free version of one of the AI song creators, just for grins I asked it to compose a song in the "style" of AC/DC just to see what it would provide..... and it came back with a message that using the name of a band was not allowed.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
[quote=Jeff Yankauer]
…
While messing around with the free version of one of the AI song creators, just for grins I asked it to compose a song in the "style" of AC/DC just to see what it would provide..... and it came back with a message that using the name of a band was not allowed. Just yesterday, I was doing a little research and asked an ChatGPT for the lyrics of a particular Beatle song just to save time. I got a big pop-up that this probably violated the Terms of Service—ok... but it also displayed the full lyrics to the song. It wouldn't let me copy them, however. No big deal, plenty of places that would let me copy. BTW, nearly all of those lyric sites are run by Hal Leonard, largest music publisher in the world, and royalties are paid to the rights holders. I found this out by digging deep into MUSE Group's mission statement when they bought Hal Leonard last December. I digress... the project was to get lines from famous songs of the 1960s that used the word, Love. I would ask for a dozen lines from songs by the Beatles, Stones, Monkees, Kinks and so on. In each case, GPT used the name of the band in the reply. What was appalling was how often GPT got it wrong. I saw the same James Taylor line credited to both The Beatles and the Monkees. So I asked for 12 lines from James Taylor and the lines never came up. The lines? "I feel fine anytime she's around me now. She's around me now, almost all the time and I feel fine" (from Something in the Way She Moves). Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709 |
Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen. And all the more disturbing given the rapidity for which it is moving into the medical field. J&B
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen. And all the more disturbing given the rapidity for which it is moving into the medical field. J&B ![[Linked Image from media1.tenor.com]](https://media1.tenor.com/m/vkodxf_ULOUAAAAC/apocalypsenow-horror.gif)
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,114 |
And all the more disturbing given the rapidity for which it is moving into the medical field. Remember MYCIN? Back in the day, AI meant expert systems, with inference engines driven by rule-based systems using knowledge derived from subject matter experts. AI moved from LISP to Prolog. Fuzzy logic was a big thing, because it dealt more robustly with edge cases and gaps. But systems were still build from a knowlege engineering perspective. Now we're at the point where neural networks are fed tons of data, and we don't care about the inner workings. As long the error measure is below some given level, the system is fit for use. Strange days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,408
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,408 |
It appears that some controls are being brought into place: https://alvaromontoro.com/blog/68057/ai-act-is-here
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
Maybe. Nothing I've read about this mentions Copyrights.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,408
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 19,408 |
Yes, who knows where this is leading? Maybe nowhere? Maybe the thin end of the wedge?
BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 366
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 366 |
Rick Beato - amen! I actually shed a tear, because he just nailed it, and exposed the flip side of any art in our society today. I'm guilty of being an active Apple Music Subscriber, I used to subscribe to Netflix/Amazon/Disney/HBO, I subscribe to Storytell and on my TV I subscribe to put art on my Samsung The Frame TV. I can have everything at my fingertips, easy and convenient - but I value it less, than what I used to do. I have so many choices on how to spent my spare time with art. You can add social media, gaming etc to that equation.' The interesting thing is, what I actually value is music I listened to in the past - with very few exceptions. I value watching and learning about historical things - especially understanding the 60's, 70 and the 80's better with the historians perspectives. I value real acting, comedy performed live and listening to books (in the car while I drive) and last but not least - listening to radio...not music radio - old fashion radio where real people share experiences, exchange views and perspectives. Especially with streaming and social media, it is very difficult to balance these things in a meaningful way - since algorithms and AI just feed me the same things over and over again. As an extensive user of BIAB for more than a decade, using other composer aid tools as well - I also somehow add to the Rick Beato's drain is his kitchen sink. But without some of these wonderful tools, I wouldn't be spending hours trying to improve my singing, song writing, guitar playing ....the list goes on. I think the main difference is, that I want to control the full process, and try to replace even Real Tracks to see if I can do it more like my own work. With the AI tools on trial, I feel that I'm no longer in the driving seat of the process. I guess that's a matter of taste and experience with the various tools I would have loved to be part of a band, but the chance and option never came my way. I never started making music to become rich and famous (I dreamt of that in a younger age), but especially BIAB became my band. For others their AI became their band. The funny thing is - that since I have 50+ songs out there, the AIs might even feed on my music (probably to learn what not to do  ... ) So maybe the safest bet is for the AIs to learn from the masters and generate artistic questionable or even poor music, that the Air will learn from again - maybe a downward spiral, might change music business again, and make room for the talented, the creative, the geniuses ....maybe we have to go fully through this era, for music to develop. Meanwhile I will spend a lot of my time and attention to keep on watching guys like Rick, to remind me of what used to be, what used to make me both happy and sad at the same time, but what used to make me feel alive. If you read so far - thank you - I'll end my ramble
MacMini M1 - BIAB2021 - Logic Pro X - iZotope Music Production Suite - Scaler 2 - far too many Waves plugins and Line 6 Guitars and boards + a fantastic Yamaha THR10ll mini Amp - Avid MBOX Studio
Peters' Garage is available on all major streaming services
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,290
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,290 |
Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen. I would say this might be similar to someone who has never played an instrument, for the example, let's say a guitar, messing around with it for a few hours for a few days and determining because they can't play it, the guitar doesn't sound very good at all. They don't seek out examples of where a guitar sounded great to them, then take the time to learn what has to be done to create what they like. I can say that it's BY FAR not as easy to make a decent song as people seem to want it to be. Musician or not. It's a whole new set of skills and thinking differently than you maybe have before about writing a song. Also, the technology becoming more user friendly will help. There are some pretty unintuitive hoops to jump through to get a decent result. Even at that, it takes many attempts. Personally, I don't find it easier to write a song using various A/I tools. I think it is actually harder in certain aspects. In other aspects though, it can help tremendously. Combining A/I technology, with the SKILL of prompting (which isn't overly simple), and most of all, the HUMAN side of it, I believe works well. It's just not a push a button get a song thing by a long shot. If you understand composition, lyric writing, song structure, and especially production, it can really help. From watching others though, I feel many musicians greatly over-estimate their skill proficiency in several of those arenas when approaching this technology. Just my opinion on this. Ultimately that's all any of this have on the matter is our opinions.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401 |
Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen. I would say this might be similar to someone who has never played an instrument, for the example, let's say a guitar, messing around with it for a few hours for a few days and determining because they can't play it, the guitar doesn't sound very good at all. +1 I have seen and heard this "Artificial Yes, Intelligent, No" sentiment a few times over the years. And when I've challenged such folks to a "You vs AI" battle of the minds, they and I both know they wouldn't stand a chance against an AI bot in the same way they wouldn't stand a chance in an earth moving competition with a bulldozer. Anti-technology and folks that cannot understand technology have always been with us. After all: "If man were made to fly, he would have been born with wings" "The earth is not a globe." "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." “There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.”
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,863
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 21,863 |
.............................................
After all:
"If man were made to fly, he would have been born with wings"
"The earth is not a globe."
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
“There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.” Steve, you forgot to add "I'll never use a mouse"!
Have you ever noticed there are no lines to a bathroom at a water park?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 8,120 |
This may be a little if track, but other people have been a little off track, so I guess I'm allowed to do it too. So here goes.
As a multi-instrumentalist and someone who has spent a large part of his life playing in numerous bands, and in recording sessions with bands, including bands that I have fronted, I take a lot of joy in playing instrumental tracks myself just because I think it's fun.
However, I have never had a problem with people making music in any other fashion that they would like, even if they just choose to bang on a trash can lid or use banging on a trash can lid loops. What difference does it make, it's a free country.
I am sure that there are many artists out there who are legitimately using all the AI tools at their disposal to come up with something creative, while still trying to stay within the bounds of the law and not deliberately steal from other artists. And I'm sure for many their intentions are good.
I just have not had that many interactions with songwriters who do not play an instrument at some level and use that instrument as they are working through the craft of writing a song. That is not to say there aren't such people out there, I just haven't really mingled with songwriters who aren't musicians as well but that's just me. Again I'm not saying there isn't another way to do it, I'm just saying that's the way most people I know do it.
Also, all of the songwriters that I interact with have some sort of spiritual force inside of them that is trying to express itself in an original way. They actually agonize over the lyrics that they write and the shape and form of the music they create until it reaches a state of perfection and they feel that it is a unique expression of their own 1 and 7 billion personhood.
I think all of them in that group I'm defining would say that AI is absolutely anathema to their artistic personality.
I've even had some of them complain about my use of Band in a Box for backing tracks although I usually play numerous tracks on numerous instruments and synths myself on every song I put out. Some of them think that any use of something that's not real is not legitimate but I think that's a little bit snotty and unrealistic. When I try to explain to them that a backing track is a backing track and I see nothing at all wrong with using band in a box if I can't find a bass player or drummer at any particular moment they still don't understand me. But c'est la vie.
For me, the creation of music is just an avenue for the generation of personal joy. If other people like it and have fun with it that's cool, if they don't like it that's cool too. The main reason I do what I do in music is just because it makes me feel good. And I will just keep on doing it for that reason and no other reason.
And I have no interest whatsoever in surrendering that joy to a computer or a machine.
I would rather play computer video games than do that and I've never played a single video computer game in my entire life.
Just my two cents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,829
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,829 |
DC Ron
BiaB Audiophile
Presonus Studio One
StudioCat DAW dual screen
Presonus Faderport 16
Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 55
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 55 |
For me, the creation of music is just an avenue for the generation of personal joy. If other people like it and have fun with it that's cool, if they don't like it that's cool too. The main reason I do what I do in music is just because it makes me feel good. And I will just keep on doing it for that reason and no other reason.
And I have no interest whatsoever in surrendering that joy to a computer or a machine.
I would rather play computer video games than do that and I've never played a single video computer game in my entire life.
Just my two cents. Thanks for saving me the time of typing this out. You pretty much expressed exactly how I feel. Also I would add - It was bad enough that prior to AI, music was being distilled down to a "formula" of what would sell. AI is accelerating that process and before long there will just be that one, sad, last string of notes that are the accepted way we are told music should sound . . .
Don't ever try and be like anybody else and don't be afraid to take risks. -Waylon Jennings
PC-Win 10 Pro-Intel i9 9900 3.6 GHz-32 gig ram-SSD (X3)-AMD RX 550
AUDIO INTERFACE-Presonus FP10/Firepods
SOFTWARE-Cakewalk by Bandlab / BiaB 2024 UltraPAK
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401 |
Also I would add - It was bad enough that prior to AI, music was being distilled down to a "formula" of what would sell. AI is accelerating that process and before long there will just be that one, sad, last string of notes that are the accepted way we are told music should sound . . . Not sure if I totally agree with this. My thought is there will always be a demand for passionate, honest music played with soul and emotion, and packed with intelligent sonic language. Want some examples of such great human-made music played with passion and skill? Jump over to the Snarky Puppy thread.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 14,709 |
Also I would add - It was bad enough that prior to AI, music was being distilled down to a "formula" of what would sell. AI is accelerating that process and before long there will just be that one, sad, last string of notes that are the accepted way we are told music should sound . . . Not sure if I totally agree with this. My thought is there will always be a demand for passionate, honest music played with soul and emotion, and packed with intelligent sonic language. Want some examples of such great human-made music played with passion and skill? Jump over to the Snarky Puppy thread. "My thought is there will always be a demand for passionate, honest music played with soul and emotion, and packed with intelligent sonic language." Indeed. Demand is certainly relative. We love Americana, blues, blues rock, old school country, bluegrass, classic rock, folk rock, some jazz and more. Almost every day we are exposed via Spotify, Apple Music and YouTube to artists we had never listened to but very much like. And most often these are newer artists. So they survive by being "in demand" albeit it on a lesser scale. I won't go on a "soul and emotion" rant but, yes, that is the key. And frankly one either gets that or they don't. And, no, I am not anti-tech when it comes to music. Heck were it not for well designed algorithms used by the afore mentioned sources we listen to we would not be exposed to these artists.  FWIW Spotify’s “DJ” absolutely nails the music we enjoy. BTW Kudos to those who do such amazing work with synth vocals. But to our ears they typically sound like modern pop singers. And if that’s the goal then job well done. Bud
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,314
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,314 |
One thing's for certain - there's no going back from here.
Ever since the Industrial Revolution in England and probably before that, the Luddites and others have tried in vain to halt progress. Whether you perceive the progress to be good, or bad, makes no difference when it comes to trying to prevent it. The present lawsuits are likely to suffer the same fate. As David Cuny (for whom I have a great respect) pointed out, the Ai computer does little more than listen to the radio and learn how to write songs. Sorry, David if this is an oversimplification of your excellent and detailed explanation. This is pretty much how I learned to do it and I suspect many others did too. How often do you hear an Artiste talk about their influences? If you are going to stop the Ai machine listening to copyrighted music, then it follows that you must also stop the general public from listening too, in case they become influenced and maybe start to play guitar like BB King (I wish).
I've been working with both computers and music for most of my life and was still unprepared for the sudden improvement in Ai generated music. I confess to having tried it out and been startled at the sheer quality. Now I'm trying to work out how I can embrace this format, because if I try to dismiss it, or pretend that it will go away, I think I'll simply go mad.
ROG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,423 |
Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen. I would say this might be similar to someone who has never played an instrument, for the example, let's say a guitar, messing around with it for a few hours for a few days and determining because they can't play it, the guitar doesn't sound very good at all. +1 I have seen and heard this "Artificial Yes, Intelligent, No" sentiment a few times over the years. And when I've challenged such folks to a "You vs AI" battle of the minds, they and I both know they wouldn't stand a chance against an AI bot in the same way they wouldn't stand a chance in an earth moving competition with a bulldozer. Anti-technology and folks that cannot understand technology have always been with us. After all: "If man were made to fly, he would have been born with wings" "The earth is not a globe." "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." “There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.” Are you trying to be funny, Steve? I've been using AI tools in music production since 2018 and know them pretty well—not for songwriting, of course but there are plenty of other uses. If you watch cable TV, listen to YouTube, use a cell phone, send and receive email, you are using technologies that have my fingerprints from when Silicon Valley and AT&T were my day gigs. Though long retired from that grind, I still consult to Apple now and then. Your condescending blend of arrogance, insults and ignorance is getting pretty old.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sonoma, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro
Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,401 |
Are you trying to be funny, Steve? Not at all, just historical.I've been using AI tools in music production since 2018 and know them pretty well—not for songwriting, of course but there are plenty of other uses. If you watch cable TV, listen to YouTube, use a cell phone, send and receive email, you are using technologies that have my fingerprints from when Silicon Valley and AT&T were my day gigs. Though long retired from that grind, I still consult to Apple now and then. Am I detecting a back-pedal here?
How do you explain the following? 
"Artificial? Yes. Intelligence? Not that I have seen."
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2024 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 468
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 468 |
Well technology is pandoras box.
There's a line between me taking my guitar.
and playing a new song that I just wrote. The drummer is going to play his part and will change it or alter it according to my request, same as the other players. Much like BIAB
So I figure I've written the song.But If I enter 50 words and a program completes the song lyrics solos arrangement chord pattern, everything, I really had almost nothing to do with ut.
End if any of you have heard the quality.
Of the generated instruments in any of these apps. I'm sure you are or would be amazed.
I would love to see p g music incorporate this new technology.
WSS
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Generate Lyrics for your Band-in-a-Box songs with LyricLab!
Need some lyrics to complete your Band-in-a-Box song? LyricLab is here to help!
LyricLab (by Joanne Cooper) is an AI-powered tool designed to quickly create lyrics and chords to fit your music. Just enter a rough idea of your lyrics, and let the AI bring them to life. Once you're happy with the results, simply import the LyricLab file into Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or newer. From there, you can pick your style and generate melodies to match your song’s chords!
Learn more about LyricLab here!
Watch the video.
Band-in-a-Box 2024 Italian for Mac is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Mac Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK & 7, Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Mac® is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6 & 7, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, et bien plus encore!
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums65
Topics82,885
Posts752,969
Members39,023
| |
Most Online3,932
Nov 19th, 2024
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean