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#816984 07/14/24 05:07 PM
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Crash and Burn

This is an older song remixed using some of the input from previous forum posts. Will often place a sad lyric in a happy tune, but went for Orbison-esque pathos on this one.

I don't usually use the BiaB Oohs because they seldom sound natural to my ears, but tried modding them with Melodyne Studio to tame the swooping attack. Am encouraged by the result. (The BiaB Ooh BGVs are on the bridge that precedes the final chorus. Dusty sings his own arrangement of BGVs on the final chorus.)

Thanks in advance for any listens and input!

R.W. Davis: lyrics
D.A. Hughes: vocals, BGV arrangement (chorus)
Me: First Responder

Style is _CREASE.STY (Crease Americana Pop)
RealTracks in style: 2903:Bass, Acoustic, BluesyPopByron Ev 100
RealTracks in style: 691:Guitar, Acoustic, Strumming AcRockBright Ev 120
RealTracks in song: 3552:Multi[Thickened=5] Vocal Oohs-Aahs, Rhythm Pop3-part Ev 085
RealTracks in song: 1757:Accordion, Rhythm Pop8ths Ev 085
RealDrums in style:Americana16GroovinBrushFred^1-a,b:Brushes,Toms

I tried to be optimistic
And wished for the best
But I became pessimistic
And under duress

I tried to be hopeful
And stay on the course
But it was so painful
And felt mighty forced

I pinned all my hopes
On hoping you would return
But you knew all my hopes
Would eventually crash and burn

I tried to be simplistic
And not complicated
But you became ballistic
And so aggravated

I tried to calm you down
And say something nice
You didn’t stick around
Tho’ I asked you twice

I pinned all my hopes
On hoping you would return
But you knew all my hopes
Would eventually crash and burn

Thin-skinned and undisciplined
You were so very hard to read
I grinned and felt chagrined
Knowing I would not succeed
In the end
I could not pretend
Because you are all I need

I pinned all my hopes
On hoping you would return
But you knew all my hopes
Would eventually crash and burn...


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DC Ron #816998 07/15/24 02:22 AM
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Ron,

This is great. Yes, definitely an Orbison feel, but I'm also getting a bit of J.D. Souther. Really nice. Dusty has an excellent voice.

Love the tracks selection and the mix is perfect.

A new favorite for me!

Bob

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Old is good, especailly when renrewed by such a strong talent, Ron. You bring up an often-overlooked but such a BIG part of this forum in how it helps us develop our craft. I too have learned much from comments here. Well, if anyone reads this one they'll know how much I really like this song. I like the feeling and the way you've built it with with those ooze and oz. GREAT idea of remodeling them --a very timely comment that I can learn from. Never thought of that. Well, this crash and burn has risen as a Phoenix. Thanks!


Enjoy whatever happens!
marty

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Originally Posted by rsdean
Ron, This is great. Yes, definitely an Orbison feel, but I'm also getting a bit of J.D. Souther. Really nice. Dusty has an excellent voice. Love the tracks selection and the mix is perfect. A new favorite for me! Bob

Bob, THANKS for the listen and the nice review. J.D. Souther is a monster songwriter, he was everywhere back in the day. He should have been more famous, even though he did very well. Yes, Dusty DOES have an excellent voice, and he's got a great interpretive ear. A lot of fun to work these songs with him. But heck, HE should be more famous, too. Ha! Glad you enjoyed the tune!

Originally Posted by BabuMusic
Old is good, especailly when renrewed by such a strong talent, Ron. You bring up an often-overlooked but such a BIG part of this forum in how it helps us develop our craft. I too have learned much from comments here. Well, if anyone reads this one they'll know how much I really like this song. I like the feeling and the way you've built it with with those ooze and oz. GREAT idea of remodeling them --a very timely comment that I can learn from. Never thought of that. Well, this crash and burn has risen as a Phoenix. Thanks!

Marty, great observation about the utility of the forum. It's like a masterclass in songcraft seen through a BiaB lens. Cool stuff. The Melodyne trick is a good one to remember for any wayward RealTrack. Melodyne Studio is my single most expensive software purchase, but the best value of anything I've ever bought. Oh, and the SONG...glad you liked it! In the words of Sir Elton, Sad Songs say so much...


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DC Ron #817051 07/15/24 04:58 PM
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DCRon, this is fantastic
Great vocal and lyrics
Outstanding mix
Loved it

PS - thanx for the Melodyne tip. I have used Melodyne on RTs and other audio tracks but never on the oohs and ahs. I'll have to try that.


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DC Ron #817062 07/15/24 07:06 PM
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When the accordion came in I thought how cool this song'd sound with a Ry Cooder/Chicken Skin Music treatment.
I enjoyed the song & the story but "And felt mighty forced." sounded just that.


Cheers
rayc
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DC Ron #817071 07/16/24 02:07 AM
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Good song, Ron, love your production chops and always great to hear Dusty's vocal.

I feel the same about those oohs and ahs tracks, most of the time they are not doing what I want them to do. Never crossed my mind to use Melodyne to modify them, thanks for the tip!

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Originally Posted by MarioD
DCRon, this is fantastic Great vocal and lyrics Outstanding mix Loved it PS - thanx for the Melodyne tip. I have used Melodyne on RTs and other audio tracks but never on the oohs and ahs. I'll have to try that.

Thanks, Marty!

Originally Posted by rayc
When the accordion came in I thought how cool this song'd sound with a Ry Cooder/Chicken Skin Music treatment. I enjoyed the song & the story but "And felt mighty forced." sounded just that.

Re-watched the 1977 Ry Cooder Old Grey Whistle Test concert. Probably my favorite era for Ry, though they were all better than good. I like the "mighty forced" line myself as it compactly reveals a sliver of the narrator's perspective that might be otherwise lost. But I get it. THANKS for the listen!

Originally Posted by BlueAttitude
Good song, Ron, love your production chops and always great to hear Dusty's vocal. I feel the same about those oohs and ahs tracks, most of the time they are not doing what I want them to do. Never crossed my mind to use Melodyne to modify them, thanks for the tip!

Dave, glad you liked the tune! Only just started using Melodyne on the Oohs, but once I got into it, it took just minutes to fix everything to my (near) satisfaction.


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I well written and crafted song, though I bit too pessimistic for me laugh I'm an optessimist: I bizarrely derive a positive view of the future via a pessimistic view of the present! laugh


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WaoBand #817148 07/16/24 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WaoBand
I well written and crafted song, though I bit too pessimistic for me laugh I'm an optessimist: I bizarrely derive a positive view of the future via a pessimistic view of the present! laugh

I'm also an optimist, and the glass is ALWAYS at least 3/4 full for me, BUT...my reading of the lyric (which is not mine) is a look backwards at a false hope of reconciliation. So this is perhaps more anguish than pessimism. Your are correct that it IS a SERIOUS downer though. Sometimes, love stinks. THANKS for the listen, and never stop being an optimist...we need the company!! Ha!


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DC Ron #817150 07/16/24 06:17 PM
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Very nice. I don't recall ever hearing anyone else using the accordion in their music. It was a perfect fit.

Great song too.


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Ron,

What a lovely track! It's so well produced! The vocal production here is wonderful!
Love that bridge going to the minor chord!
Everything I've heard from you has been excellent!

Thanks, TB




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Hi, Ron.

Clever write, well sung and produced.

An enjoyable bit of pop, which is something you excel at. smile


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Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?
dcuny #817185 07/17/24 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitarhacker
Very nice. I don't recall ever hearing anyone else using the accordion in their music. It was a perfect fit. Great song too.

Thanks, Herb! The basic RealStyle only had the acoustic guitar, so added the accordion on the 2nd verse to make it more interesting. Think our time in New Orleans gave me an appreciation for the instrument, though it's usually more rambunctious in New Orleans style music. It does pair nicely with an acoustic guitar.

Originally Posted by Torrey Bliss
Ron, What a lovely track! It's so well produced! The vocal production here is wonderful! Love that bridge going to the minor chord! Everything I've heard from you has been excellent! Thanks, TB

Gee, THANKS, Torrey! Dusty's vocals make vocal production a lot of fun. I also enjoy sending the bridge on a little side journey, then syncing it back up. I'm SO easily amused...THANKS for the listen!

Originally Posted by dcuny
Hi, Ron. Clever write, well sung and produced. An enjoyable bit of pop, which is something you excel at. smile

THANK YOU, David! Sometimes I worry that having fun making songs about depression is wrong, but mostly I don't. Ha!


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Ron...You and Dusty have done it again...another super song...I really dig Dusty's vocals (I hope I've said that before)...the harmonies are killer....you did a great job with the Ooh's...I agree that they're hard to work with but you nailed them ...love the acoustic, unplugged feel of the track...one of your best writes and productions IMHO...very nice!!


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firesong #817212 07/17/24 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by firesong
Ron...You and Dusty have done it again...another super song...I really dig Dusty's vocals (I hope I've said that before)...the harmonies are killer....you did a great job with the Ooh's...I agree that they're hard to work with but you nailed them ...love the acoustic, unplugged feel of the track...one of your best writes and productions IMHO...very nice!!

Thanks, Dan! Yes, Dusty is wonderfully talented, and we're fortunate to have him up front on these. I scored the harmonies (so thanks!) but Dusty really nails them. And what he does with the Ah BGVs is just gorgeous. There was a fork in the road on the production on going BIG or small, and I opted to keep the band intimate and let the vocals carry the dynamics. Glad you liked it! THANKS for the listen!!


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DC Ron #817366 07/19/24 10:15 AM
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It is reminiscent of Orbison but also of the Mavericks … a good thing.

Dusty’s vocals sound great as do the BiaB touches.

The accordion provides a very supportive track.
Accordions are rarely used BiaB tracks but they offer a lot - at least to our ears.

Nice dynamic and open mix.
We’ve said that before you are very consistent with it and we love that mix style.

Simply stated … great in all aspects!

J&B


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DC Ron #817397 07/19/24 04:06 PM
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I like that CREASE style. Fits the Orbison pathos well. I was expecting to hear a soaring high C at the end on "burn." smile
Well sung. I particularly like this line: "Thin-skinned and undisciplined."
The BIAB BGVs at the bridge sound good to me.

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Originally Posted by Janice & Bud
It is reminiscent of Orbison but also of the Mavericks … a good thing. Dusty’s vocals sound great as do the BiaB touches. The accordion provides a very supportive track. Accordions are rarely used BiaB tracks but they offer a lot - at least to our ears. Nice dynamic and open mix. We’ve said that before you are very consistent with it and we love that mix style. Simply stated … great in all aspects! J&B

J&B, THANKS for the listen and the favorable review. Had to look up the Mavericks, but I'm so glad you gave me a reason to. They are really quite a bit of fun. AND they often feature a very tastefully played accordion. Glad you enjoyed the tune!

Originally Posted by Ezekiel's Storm
I like that CREASE style. Fits the Orbison pathos well. I was expecting to hear a soaring high C at the end on "burn." smile Well sung. I particularly like this line: "Thin-skinned and undisciplined." The BIAB BGVs at the bridge sound good to me.

THANKS! The CREASE style is pretty sparse, so the accordion was an add by me. I like the way the acoustic guitar has a slightly more aggressive strumming pattern for the B subpart. I always start with A subpart on the verses and B on the chorus, but here I used B starting on the 2nd verse ("I tried to be optimistic") since it paired better with the lyric and gave a nice lift.

Not sure where the top of Dusty's range is exactly, but haven't dialed up a high C yet. That would probably be cool.

THANKS for the listen!


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DC Ron #817437 07/20/24 08:28 AM
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This is great man.
I particularly like how you crafted the bridge and final chorus.
Great job!


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I don't know Orbison well enough to judge whether you're successful, but I can tell you that this is a really good song that I enjoyed listening to!


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Originally Posted by Bass Thumper
This is great man. I particularly like how you crafted the bridge and final chorus. Great job!

THANKS! That was a fun ending to build, though I think it would get old if it was done on EVERY song...

Originally Posted by B.D.Thomas
I don't know Orbison well enough to judge whether you're successful, but I can tell you that this is a really good song that I enjoyed listening to!

THANKS, B.D.! Well, I didn't come close to classic Roy Orbison, but he had a talent for the BIG SAD song, and a great voice. "Only the Lonely" is a good reference point. Glad you like it, THANKS for the listen!


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Hey DC,

This is a really catchy song and it has a great sound to it. Really snappy with an excellent dynamic range, pretty much prime time for radio.

There's been a transformation in your music of late and I can't quite put my finger on it. It's almost as if you were reading the forum sometime ago and you listened to the mixing advice of some super genius mixing superpower who had learned his tricks of the trade from the greatest mixing and mastering expert on the face of the Earth who of course is the first best even though this unconceited forum member humbly acknowledges that he is the second best.

I don't know why I think this or where it would come from but it seems like there's almost a parallel universe at play between the two mixed busses to the extent that one could even call it parallel compression if they wanted to call it that.

But because this song is so wonderful and so good and so pleasing to my ears I don't want to make it all about me because I would never do that.

Great job man!!!

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Originally Posted by David Snyder
Hey DC...There's been a transformation in your music of late and I can't quite put my finger on it....

David, as is often the case, you (nearly) leave me speechless. But everything you say it true, brother...


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Love the Big clean sound
Good mix
I dig y’all’s music

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Ron & Dusty,

You guys never disappoint - never. I've never heard a song from you guys I didn't think was special. And you did it again.

I agree with the analogies of Orbison and The Mavericks. Bit Dusty's voice, and most of the lyrics, remind me of Gary Lewis & the Playboys.

This is really, really good -0 a great listen.

BTW - Raul Malo, lead singer of The Mavericks, recently announced he's been diagnosed with cancer. Hope all goes well for him. I'm an eleven-year cancer survivor.

Take care,

Alan

Last edited by Al-David; 07/23/24 04:18 PM.

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Al-David #817713 07/24/24 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by floyd jane
Love the Big clean sound Good mix I dig y’all’s music

Thanks for the listen, Floyd!

Originally Posted by Al-David
Ron & Dusty, You guys never disappoint - never. I've never heard a song from you guys I didn't think was special. And you did it again. I agree with the analogies of Orbison and The Mavericks. Bit Dusty's voice, and most of the lyrics, remind me of Gary Lewis & the Playboys. This is really, really good -0 a great listen. BTW - Raul Malo, lead singer of The Mavericks, recently announced he's been diagnosed with cancer. Hope all goes well for him. I'm an eleven-year cancer survivor. Take care, Alan

Alan, why, THANK YOU for the nice review! I can honestly say Dusty NEVER delivers anything less than a special vocal, and I do love my brother's lyrics, so...I probably have the easiest job of all in these tunes. Sorry to hear about Raul. Thoughts and prayers for him as well.


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You really know how to turn simplicity into a glittering pop diamond. Pleasant melody with the slightly upbeat chord progression, especially ending in major, well, that matches with the verse opening statements like "I tried to be optimistic". Lyrics try nicely to find balance between hopes and crashes. I like the darker bridge, adds nice contrast to the overall tone.

The accordion fits very well. And the background vocals with oohs are delicious. Great mix, I especially enjoyed how soft the drums sound.

Janne


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Man, I love that mix. Very impressive! Everything is crytal clear and stands well on it's with no mud to be found anywhere. Cool sound!

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Originally Posted by jannesan
You really know how to turn simplicity into a glittering pop diamond. Pleasant melody with the slightly upbeat chord progression, especially ending in major, well, that matches with the verse opening statements like "I tried to be optimistic". Lyrics try nicely to find balance between hopes and crashes. I like the darker bridge, adds nice contrast to the overall tone.The accordion fits very well. And the background vocals with oohs are delicious. Great mix, I especially enjoyed how soft the drums sound. Janne

THANK YOU, Janne. This was a fun tune to work on, and I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Originally Posted by Brad Williams
Man, I love that mix. Very impressive! Everything is crytal clear and stands well on it's with no mud to be found anywhere. Cool sound!

Thanks, Brad! Trickiest part of this mix was the bridge and last chorus where the BGVs kick in and sit in the same frequency range as the lead vocal/harmony tracks. Used a bit of compression, panning (on chorus where I had individual stems) and EQ on the BGVs to give them their own space, and applied pre-delay to the BGV plate reverb so that they maintained some clarity as well. Honestly, it took quite a few listens to get it right. Glad you appreciated it!


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Really well put together!!! Drums sound big, vocals are excellent!! I think the BIAB BG vocals work pretty well. Nicely done!! Take care. Greg

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Originally Posted by Greg Johnson
Really well put together!!! Drums sound big, vocals are excellent!! I think the BIAB BG vocals work pretty well. Nicely done!! Take care. Greg

Thanks, Greg! Those drums are a great example of track that I just stumbled on when looking for a style, and ended up liking a lot more than anything I would have played myself. I'll almost always arrange the final vocals to play off whatever the drummer is doing. Glad you liked it!


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Great sounding song ... Love the Middle 8 ... almost Beatles Like. Great vocals, backing track, mix, it works on all levels.


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Originally Posted by Elliott Kayne
Great sounding song ... Love the Middle 8 ... almost Beatles Like. Great vocals, backing track, mix, it works on all levels.

Thanks, Elliott! Yeah, nuthin' suggest Beatles better than an unexpected minor 4th chord. smile Glad you liked the tune!


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Hi Ron
I liked the rhythm of this and the lyrics. Accordians are underated and it sounded good on this. Your production skills are impressive and this is an all round enjoyable song to listen to. It reminded me of Turn Turn Turn and you cleverly incorporated the intended Orbison-esque vibe. Nice.

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Originally Posted by Izzy
Hi Ron I liked the rhythm of this and the lyrics. Accordians are underated and it sounded good on this. Your production skills are impressive and this is an all round enjoyable song to listen to. It reminded me of Turn Turn Turn and you cleverly incorporated the intended Orbison-esque vibe. Nice.

Ooh, Turn, Turn, Turn is really cool, especially the Byrds' version. Hard to believe that was almost 60 years ago. THANKS for the listen and the nice review. So glad you liked it!


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Hi Ron
Cool song
Really well sung
Your Voice Fits very well
Great lyrics
BiaB very nicely utilized
Andi ;-)

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Originally Posted by PROJECT M
Hi Ron Cool song Really well sung Your Voice Fits very well Great lyrics BiaB very nicely utilized Andi ;-)

Glad you liked it, Andi! The vocal and lyric credits are in the original post, but I agree with you 110%. THANKS for the listen!


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Ron,

Really like this one--opening is engaging and it keeps the ear all the way through. The vocal is compelling, the lyrics are terrific, and the BGV harmonies sing . . . I have used the BIAB oohs and aahs occasionally, but like you I think they often sound a bit artificial . . .I usually use them more to augment BGVs than stand on their own . . . Regardless, you use them nicely here. Cool tune!

Deej

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Ron.

I really enjoyed this song. A classic case of keeping it simple. A quality vocal and BGV harmonies.
While the biab Ooh's were ok, Dusty's BGV's were superior for sure.
A great mix.
Keep em coming.

Regards
Brian.

Last edited by Jackdogdude; 08/16/24 09:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Deej56
Ron, Really like this one--opening is engaging and it keeps the ear all the way through. The vocal is compelling, the lyrics are terrific, and the BGV harmonies sing . . . I have used the BIAB oohs and aahs occasionally, but like you I think they often sound a bit artificial . . .I usually use them more to augment BGVs than stand on their own . . . Regardless, you use them nicely here. Cool tune! Deej

Glad you liked it, Deej! Using the BiaB BGVs to layer with sung BGVs had not occurred to me, may have to try that out. Thanks for the listen AND the tip!

Originally Posted by Jackdogdude
Ron. I really enjoyed this song. A classic case of keeping it simple. A quality vocal and BGV harmonies.
While the biab Ooh's were ok, Dusty's BGV's were superior for sure. A great mix. Keep em coming. Regards Brian.

Brian, thanks for the listen, glad you enjoyed it! Totally agree on the BGVs. Hard for BiaB to top Dusty on BGVs for sure.


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The first thing that popped into my head was what a cool mix. Vocal was awesome and what a cool groove. I got an Everly brothers vibe. One of my favorite tunes of yours. Really well done....


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Originally Posted by Scott C
The first thing that popped into my head was what a cool mix. Vocal was awesome and what a cool groove. I got an Everly brothers vibe. One of my favorite tunes of yours. Really well done....

Geez, Scott, who wouldn't be flattered by a Phil and Don comparison? Not me! Thanks for the listen, glad you liked it!


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Great backing. Excellent mix and production. The topic (toxic, lop-sided relationship) is one that not a few listeners might relate to.

Ghostgum.


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Originally Posted by Ghostgum
Great backing. Excellent mix and production. The topic (toxic, lop-sided relationship) is one that not a few listeners might relate to. Ghostgum.

Thanks, Brian! The lyrics were by my brother. He has a great talent for writing gut wrenching lyrics that are (usually) not autobiographical. In our division of labor, I take the lyrics and write the song using BiaB accompaniment, and record the scratch vocals. If we like it enough, Dusty will sing it as he did here. The mix and production are the last step, as you would expect, and require a bit of trial and error on my part. So glad you liked the results!


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This is an unpredictable melody which keeps the listener engaged! Very unique in a great way! Well done

Dewey

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Originally Posted by Dewey_MI
This is an unpredictable melody which keeps the listener engaged! Very unique in a great way! Well done Dewey

Why THANKS, Dewey! I try to imagine my teenage self driving in a car, windows down, 8-track playing, 6x9 speakers in the rear deck blaring, and me singing along. If a melody fits that image, then I keep it. Glad you liked it! Ron


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Great technique to get an engaging melody, Ron! I think I'll start driving down my back roads with the windows down more often for inspiration!! LOL

Dewey

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