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In another forum here..... a discussion on the ACW.
Just to be clear import or open the functionality is poor. Bar number issue aside it is sketchy as how one aligns the bars.
Indeed... I was just wrestling with getting it to work for a recent song. I had issues with the tempo of the import being changed drastically. The ACW should be re-coded so that it will import the audio and not change the tempo. It should also have a much easier way to set the first bar and beat of the song. The current window is absolutely confusing.
I've tried to use it simply by dragging the audio in, and hoping it lines up....and then just going measure by measure typing in the chords manually as that was actually easier, faster, and more accurate than trying to get the ACW to do it's job like one would expect it to do.
This function is very nice when it works. I've used it a few times in the past and it worked well. I think I've heard that there's a new version that replaced the first one and the new one is the one with issues.
I literally followed the instructions in the manual and it didn't work. I eventually got the advice of another user to use a work around to get it to work which it did. It needs to be simplified and functional.
Thanks
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm certainly not a power user of the ACW. I appreciate all it sets out to do, and the underlying challenges that the program faces to achieve that. There are inherent programming demands to make such a feature work successfully.
However, there are many continuing issues that might/could benefit from looking at how the system could be improved. Suggested workarounds might ultimately achieve a similar result, but how good would it be if workarounds weren't necessary, and the ACW handled many of these items internally?
It's an excellent feature, but could the existing functionality be improved further?
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This is a prime example of why I simply avoid ALL advanced features in this software. They often either don't work properly, are poorly documented or are buried so deep they're hard to find and use. I love the tracks I can get from BIAB but I do NOT enjoy using this software. So I stick to the most basic things and get out ASAP.
+1 to the wishlist request though!
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This is a prime example of why I simply avoid ALL advanced features in this software. They often either don't work properly, are poorly documented or are buried so deep they're hard to find and use. I love the tracks I can get from BIAB but I do NOT enjoy using this software. So I stick to the most basic things and get out ASAP.
+1 to the wishlist request though! I totally agree and have the same workflow as John3. +1 for the request also.
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I'm certainly not a power user of the ACW. I appreciate all it sets out to do, and the underlying challenges that the program faces to achieve that. There are inherent programming demands to make such a feature work successfully. Hi Trev. If you are interested in developing your "power user" skills for ACW, I encourage you to have a look at PG Music's 2020 New-Features video (from timestamp 25:06). PG Music have included a tutorial file in "bb\documentation\Tutorials\Tutorial - BB2018". If you follow the above 2020 video tutorial and work through Shenandoah step by step with the video, I can guarantee that in around 10 mins you will be well on your way to reaching "power user" ability. I just worked my way through the tutorial to double-check that everything is fine with pre-release testing of build 1112. --Noel P.S. When working with ACW, I always disable the style (right-click in the Style window and uncheck "Style enabled"). I also prefer to use the multi-window display that shows the chordsheet and the audio file.)
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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This is a prime example of why I simply avoid ALL advanced features in this software. They often either don't work properly, are poorly documented or are buried so deep they're hard to find and use. I love the tracks I can get from BIAB but I do NOT enjoy using this software. So I stick to the most basic things and get out ASAP.
+1 to the wishlist request though! I absolutely agree.
BIAB 2024, latest build.
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P.S. When working with ACW, I always disable the style (right-click in the Style window and uncheck "Style enabled"). I also prefer to use the multi-window display that shows the chordsheet and the audio file.) They a very worthwhile tips Noel, thanks!
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P.S. When working with ACW, I always disable the style (right-click in the Style window and uncheck "Style enabled"). I also prefer to use the multi-window display that shows the chordsheet and the audio file.) They a very worthwhile tips Noel, thanks! The problem here, to begin with, is that, for some reason, disabling a style doesn't always work: 1. Open BIAB, any style 2. Press F4 (regenerate) > BIAB plays. 3. Right button on "Style" > uncheck "Style is unabled" 4. Press F4 (regenerate) > BIAB keeps playing.
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P.S. When working with ACW, I always disable the style (right-click in the Style window and uncheck "Style enabled"). I also prefer to use the multi-window display that shows the chordsheet and the audio file.) They a very worthwhile tips Noel, thanks! The problem here, to begin with, is that, for some reason, disabling a style doesn't always work: 1. Open BIAB, any style 2. Press F4 (regenerate) > BIAB plays. 3. Right button on "Style" > uncheck "Style is unabled" 4. Press F4 (regenerate) > BIAB keeps playing. Thanks, Cerio. I wasn't aware of this. Disabling the style was definitely working for me last night but it is not working for me now. Soloing the track onto which the audio file is loaded still works fine, though. I'll report this to PG Music developers and link my post to your comments. The ability to disable a backing is definitely useful for ACW and if a multichannel MIDI file is loaded on the Melody or Soloist tracks. --Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I did a deep dive into ACW this morning and spent about 3 hours testing and retesting it. Carefully. I used the video Noel suggested as the basis of the test. I was able to get it to work fairly well. It still fights you as you move bars other bars go out of alignment. Back and forth you go and eventually you kind of give up and say that’s close enough. In the end it gets you there to a reasonable degree but could use some love.
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It still fights you as you move bars other bars go out of alignment. Yes, this was exactly one of the main problems of the ACW when I tried it years ago. After setting the first bars and calculate the rest, it may work ok for a while, but eventually, the audio, bars & screen will go out of sync and all kind of crazy behaviour will happen. It's not just an isolated or an easy to reproduce problem, the whole thing is, in my experience, just too unstable and unreliable to be used in a real project. It could be a great addtion, but, honestly, it looks like the feature is still in a very early alfa stage of development. Definitely, it deserves more love.
Last edited by Cerio; 07/17/24 11:04 AM.
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<< " It still fights you as you move bars other bars go out of alignment. Back and forth you go and eventually you kind of give up and say that’s close enough. In the end it gets you there to a reasonable degree but could use some love." >>
I'm sorry Rob but using the PG Music tutorial video and the audio demo Noel suggested as the basis for your test, your inaccurate results doesn't indicate any fault or deficiency of the ACW program or process. The ACW program and process work flawlessly in the demo. The ACW program and tutorial with the demo audio worked for Noel in the past and again when he retested the tutorial and audio file a few days ago before posting the link. The ACW isn't fighting you.
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You are entitled to your opinion Charlie but it is not like I have no experience with the ACW I have used it for several years now. I have been using BiaB and RB since 2003. I know how it works. Just because it works well in a demo doesn’t mean it works for all situations. The demo song was picked and used in a specific project and situation. I and many others have experienced similar issues with it. Sometimes it is better and sometimes it seems to fight against what you’re doing. It may have to do with the complexity of the audio file being used.
Look I appreciate your input and your help but this is the suggestion forum not the BiaB main forum I really wasn’t asking for help , I was asking for a wish of a little refinement to a tool. This is the means all development and progress happens. If it meets your needs great I am getting different results. Lastly it is not a one time issue I have now worked with about a dozen different wave files and mp3s I get mixed results. I’ve known Herb Hartly since around 2001 he has extensive experience with this stuff and he also sees the issue so let us do our job and report things we feel could use some improvement.
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I (and others) have reported several problems in the past about ACW, this is just an example from a few months ago: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=790630&page=1Here's the video I uploaded in that thread, where the odd behaviour of the ACW can be clearly seen: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26582&filename=ACW%20Broken.gif) After this new thread (threads about problems with ACW seem to be cyclical here) , I tried again following the steps on the video Noel posted, got similar results, and wrote my previous post. However, I've tried again using the "Open" command instead of draggin & droppin the audio (import, which is the method used in the video) to BIAB, and the whole thing worked well. It looks like some of the bugs have been fixed in the last months, or that (part) of the problem was using "import" instead of "open" command, but the problem might also be related to the specific audio file being used, I'm not sure. More testing is definitely needed. Having said that, the fact that so many experienced users find this feature troublesome is a clear indicator, at the very least, that this feature is hard to use and that there is a lot of room for improvement here.
Last edited by Cerio; 07/19/24 02:24 PM.
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Cerio thanks, yes I need to keep testing different angles. The video from PGM pearly shows drag and drop so if that method is not working then it needs fixing. Using ops may be better but I will bet since video used the term “open” then drag and dropped the file in they are one and the same.
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Rob, I apologize for misunderstanding your comment and offering help. I have not stated any opposition to refining and upgrading the ACW. It's been upgraded and refined several several times since 2018. It's been refined since the ACW discussion seven months ago. There was nothing in my reply to you opposing refining the ACW and there was nothing in your comment about fixing or refining the ACW.
When you said, "I did a deep dive into ACW this morning and spent about 3 hours testing and retesting it. Carefully. I used the video Noel suggested as the basis of the test." I interpreted your deep dive into the ACW and 3 hours of testing and retesting using the PG Music tutorial Noel posted to mean what you said. My previous reply to you was made specifically believing you struggled for 3 hours on that tutorial and not that you were working on a complex song.
I won't be offering any more advice.
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Charlie I always fine with advice. But in the wish lists it just seems to serve to bury the request under a pile of post. I’ll always listen to your suggestions. No offense taken.
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I haven't really used the ACW, just tried it a few times. I have used other chord detection software such as Riffstation and Song Master pro though.
A chord detection software in my opinion shouldn't need any fooling about with it such as adding bar lines and should just be able to do its job.
Maybe in future PGmusic could find some other software that is better than ACW and add it to biab instead.
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The chord detection is pretty darn good it it the tempo the battles me
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I have mostly avoided using ACW due to the above mentioned issues.
However, I have recently had need of it's unique abilities. Some attempts to use it have been marginally successful while others .... Most, in fact were abandoned out of the frustration of trying to get it to do right.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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