I have an MIDI file of an Irish song with 204 BPM. But when I open this in BIAB, BIAB gives the song 136 BPM, but the song plays at the right speed (just as in CUBASE at 204 BPM). When I drag the MIDI file in again to get access to the different tracks, 136 BPM is too slow. Where is the origin of the problem and how do I solve it?
P.S: The opened MIDI file starts at once, the imported MIDI tracks don't start at once.
Thanks for the information. The detail in the screen captures and video is a little small on my current computer to get the information I need to be able to follow the steps successfully.
Is there a possibility that there is a tempo setting in the MIDI file that is affecting this? Just a thought.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Excellent pick-up, Gordon. Yes, you're probably right on the money there.
Years and years of electronics and software experience. The first thing one does with any anomaly like that is do a calculation to see if there's a relationship. It can save hours of tests and head-scratching.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Excellent pick-up, Gordon. Yes, you're probably right on the money there.
Years and years of electronics and software experience. The first thing one does with any anomaly like that is do a calculation to see if there's a relationship. It can save hours of tests and head-scratching.
Not really any calculations needed. The pictures provide showed the midi chart was 6/8 and the BIAB chart was 4/4. But I get your point.
Edit: Gordon, I justed reviewed that old thread from 05/2024. I see you and I came to the same conclusion at the end of that exercise. I am sorry we have to send the OP to this old tread to revisit the BIAB rabbit hole which is this topic.
Rockbandguy, you have stumbled upon my biggest peeve about BiaB. If you stay with 3/4 or 4/4 then BiaB plays well with other software. But with any other time signatures it does not. All of my other music software plays well with each other, BiaB is the only one that does not play well with them.
You really have two good (or not so good) options. A, do everything in BiaB. That means you can not add a 6/8 time signature from other software to BiaB. B, create a 6/8 time signature in BiaB, drag and drop it into your DAW, then play the other tracks yourself. Yes there are other workarounds like have been mentioned but they are a PITA and really take 6/8 feel out of the song. YMMV
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Where is the origin of the problem and how do I solve it?
The cause of this is simply that the song is not 205 bpm. It is only 205bpm if you are considering a group of two eighth notes (one quarter note) to be a beat, which is not how you count 6/8 music. You use a dotted quarter note. You can verify this yourself, by listening to the song and tapping your foot along with the beat. You will definitely not be tapping your foot on every second eighth note.
You can likely find in a setting for this in Cubase, such that it uses a dotted quarter rather than a quarter note. I'm not sure where the setting is, but try searching for 'time basis'. It's a common misconception that Band-in-a-Box is getting the tempo wrong, but it's not.
Where is the origin of the problem and how do I solve it?
The cause of this is simply that the song is not 205 bpm. It is only 205bpm if you are considering a group of two eighth notes (one quarter note) to be a beat, which is not how you count 6/8 music. You use a dotted quarter note. You can verify this yourself, by listening to the song and tapping your foot along with the beat. You will definitely not be tapping your foot on every second eighth note.
You can likely find in a setting for this in Cubase, such that it uses a dotted quarter rather than a quarter note. I'm not sure where the setting is, but try searching for 'time basis'. It's a common misconception that Band-in-a-Box is getting the tempo wrong, but it's not.
In all due respect sir this is not true. It doesn't matter how you count the bests per measure. I can count a 4/4 song as 2 beats per measure but that does not make the song 2/4. 4/4 means 4 beats per measure with the 1/4 getting one beat. 6/8 means 6 beats per measure with the 1/8 note getting one beat. Thus if one brings a 6/8 song in BiaB it should get 8 beats per measure and not put in a 4/4 time signature. Also if one brings a 6/8 song/track generated in BiaB to a DAW it should go in as 6/8 and not 4/4. BiaB is the only music software program that does not play well with others.
Every music theory book and google search will verify what I just posted.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Mario, that may be the case, however that's not what the question is. The OP has a song that he thinks is 204 BPM, but it's not, it's 136 BPM. It's as simple as that. There's nothing more to it.
Mario, that may be the case, however that's not what the question is. The OP has a song that he thinks is 204 BPM, but it's not, it's 136 BPM. It's as simple as that. There's nothing more to it.
I have a question for you sir. IF BiaB used 6/8 time as the other software companies and not 4/4 time would the tempo have stayed identical?
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Way, way back in my early music-learning days, my piano teacher, Old Mrs Glover, was quite adamant that there were essentially two types of pulses that in music. These were "simple time" and "compound time". Simple times use complete notes for their pulses.
For example... Simple Duple time (two counts in a bar) = 2/4 = 2 x 1/4 notes in a bar. Simple Triple time (three counts in a bar) = 3/4 = 3 x 1/4 notes in a bar. Simple Quadruple time (four counts in a bar) = 4/4 = 4 x 1/4 notes in a bar.
On the other hand, compound time signatures use dotted notes at the beat note. Compound Duple time (two counts per bar) = 6/8 = 2 x dotted 1/4 notes in a bar (where 1 x dotted 1/note = 3 x 1/8 notes). Compound Triple time (three counts per bar) = 9/8 = 3 x dotted 1/4 notes in a bar. Compound Quadruple time (four counts per bar) = 12/8 = 4 x dotted 1/4 notes in a bar.
The thing with compound times signatures is that the top number of the time signature is always divisible by 3.
The 6/8, 2-counts-per-bar feel is very common with Irish folk tunes (Paddy's Leather Breeches in the original post) and Sousa Marches (such as the one below). The tempo of 136 is counting two pulses per bar where BIAB treats each pulse as a triplet of 1/8 notes. The tempo of 204, it counting 6/8 as equivalent to three pulses (in which case it would be better represented as 3/4 rather than 6/8).
One of Sousa's famous marches in 6/8. It's very easy to hear the left-right-left-right, 2-pulse rhythm.
From a BIAB perspective, whether these pulse beats are two groups of triplet 1/8 notes or two groups of 3 x 1/8 notes (i.e. a dotted 1/4 note), the tempo would always be 136 bpm because that's the speed of the pulses.
I don't know if this helps clarify things, but this is how I remember Mrs Glover's music lessons over 60 years ago. --Noel
Thanx Noel. Yes I have learned that also. My main object is the BiaB does not play well with other software on time signatures other than 3/4 and 4/4. BiaB is the outlier. If BiaB worked with all other software, other than 3/4 and 4/4, then IMHO it would be the perfect backing track generating program.
For those who stay in BiaB or those who bring BiaB tracks into a DAW and play along with them, as I have done, then this is not an issue. But for those of us who like to use other software then BiaB is useless in those other time signatures. YMMV
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Thanx Noel. Yes I have learned that also. My main object is the BiaB does not play well with other software on time signatures other than 3/4 and 4/4. BiaB is the outlier. If BiaB worked with all other software, other than 3/4 and 4/4, then IMHO it would be the perfect backing track generating program.
For those who stay in BiaB or those who bring BiaB tracks into a DAW and play along with them, as I have done, then this is not an issue. But for those of us who like to use other software then BiaB is useless in those other time signatures. YMMV
I agree, Mario. Working in compound time signatures in BIAB requires a bit of lateral thinking and that might not be easily understood by many people. A few years ago, BIAB introduced the ability to convert 4/4 displays in triplets to equivalent displays in compound time signatures.
As far as I'm aware, this works on any notation that has a triplet feel. Since I've never played around with it, though, I don't know how useful it is. I imagine that it could be quite useful for lead-sheets.
I have a question for you sir. IF BiaB used 6/8 time as the other software companies and not 4/4 time would the tempo have stayed identical?
Band-in-a-Box does support 6/8. From the OP's screenshot, I can see that it says, in Guitar Pro, "quarter note = 204". This is what I'm going on. It should really be "dotted quarter note = 136". Are we in agreement?
Somehow Band-in-a-Box is interpreting the time signature correctly when the MIDI file is imported. We could take a look at the data in the MIDI file if we had it. There are some meta events that may or may not be present.
I have a question for you sir. IF BiaB used 6/8 time as the other software companies and not 4/4 time would the tempo have stayed identical?
Band-in-a-Box does support 6/8. From the OP's screenshot, I can see that it says, in Guitar Pro, "quarter note = 204". This is what I'm going on. It should really be "dotted quarter note = 136". Are we in agreement?
Somehow Band-in-a-Box is interpreting the time signature correctly when the MIDI file is imported. We could take a look at the data in the MIDI file if we had it. There are some meta events that may or may not be present.
Yes sir I agree with that.
My problem is that a 6/8 time signature whether imported into BiaB or exported to a DAW should be 6/8 and not 4/4. I strongly feel that BiaB would be a superior product if it did play well with other non 3/4 or 4/4 time signatures without workarounds. Now don't get me wrong I love the 3/4 and 4/4 styles but any other time signature is useless to me. YYMV
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Band-in-a-Box does support 6/8. From the OP's screenshot, I can see that it says, in Guitar Pro, "quarter note = 204". This is what I'm going on. It should really be "dotted quarter note = 136". Are we in agreement?
Hmm, this probably highlights the problem.
Unless I'm mistaken, the MIDI specification defines set-tempo as microseconds per quarter-note, so I think it does not have offer the dotted-quarter-note option. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.
I think it gets more complicated still in XML, where tempo for the sound element is specified in "quater notes per minute", but there is a separate "tempo type" for the performer. That may be where the dotted-quarter is handled, but I don't actually know and I couldn't quickly find a clear explanation.
There's also another issue. Dotted quarter note implies the rhythm has downbeats on the 1 and 4 of the six, which is pretty usual, but not always true. It can certainly vary with some other time signatures.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 07/26/2401:45 AM. Reason: underline
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2024 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
It would be great if you could send a MIDI file - send it to beta@pgmusic.com or post a Dropbox link to it. Seems like it should be an easy problem to address.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
I'm just looking for a 6/8 MIDI file that opens 'correctly' in your DAW. I'm not talking about a Band-in-a-Box exported MIDI file. That would be very useful. Mario has one, and I'm sure there are thousands of other ones. I just want one.
It would be great if you could send a MIDI file - send it to beta@pgmusic.com or post a Dropbox link to it. Seems like it should be an easy problem to address.
I just sent you an email containing a 6/8 that was perfectly imported into my DAW.
Thank you very much for looking into this. I greatly appreciate it.
Unclear if the pianist is a total beginner or a professional jazz player?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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