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Everything Notes implied was true ..
You can get to every odd time you want using combinations of time signatures if you are OK with what that looks like in BiaB
..well most Odd Time Signatures anyway. I'd hate to see Bruford's 'He**s Bells' displayed that way, if even possible. (19/8)
One tip I can say out loud is when generating in, for example, 7/4 Time Signature; the tendency will usually be that RB plays a 4/4 and then another, but cuts off the last beat of that second bar for that track. Thus effectively 4/4 & 3/4, but on the UI the scroll bar moves along at a 7/4 display.
/it's like mathematical magic if you don't understand the relationship between math and programming
//sure makes it easier to see where I am in the song, especially on audio tracks
Last edited by rharv; 07/28/24 10:00 AM.
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.......................
Mario.
could you do the following test please ?
my analysis of the 5/4 mission demo is there is various header or control info
before the midi notes start. you can see it in rb event list or midi monitor..
could you delete this front end control info...set s1 to 5/4
import the bb 5/4 mission demo stripped of the front end control info...and post back if still a prob ?
...........................................
om I tried for a hour trying to do that in RB but with zero success. It is my inexperience with that DAW, it fought me all the way so I just gave up, I'm not going to spend hours learning RB as I will never use it. (It's funny that I use(d) Cakewalk's Pro Audio and Sonar as well as Studio One Pro with rarely looking at the doc but RB is so much different - I am not knocking RB or those whom use it - I have always said if you do not already have a DAW then learn RB, it is just not my choice of DAWs) So I generated the 5/4 mission style in BiaB and ran the MIDI file through my MIDI editor (midieditor.org). I deleted the unknown item but it wouldn't let me delete the time signature, i.e. all of the notes and CCs did show. I set S1 to 5/4 an imported the MIDI file. It was exactly as before, i.e. 4/4 lines up the BiaB MIDI measures perfectly while 5/4 did not. om, you can DL a 30 day demo here https://www.presonus.com/en-US/studio-one.htmlYou just have to open an account.
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Notes, I tried you cell approach with a 5/4 time signature. I set BiaB to 5/4 and it set up the chord sheet to repeating 3/4 and 2/4. I loaded a 5/4 style and all was well. But when I dragged that style into Studio One Pro it only lined up with a 4/4 time signature, just as it was with my other attempts. So staying in BiaB all is well but not when moving said styles into a DAW.
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mario.
one funky thing to watch out for in rb is you MUST...after importing the bb file
ensure that time sig is 5/4....otherwise things are winky....if you find in rb tracks view
its defaulted to 4/4...change it to 5/4.
let me say right off the bat i'm not trying to 'push' rb at you.
cos i realise you love s1....which has v nice features.
you are a very talented long time user.
i'm just trying to figure out with the assistance of you all why some daws
(eg in my case reaps and rb) handle 5/4 and others might not.)
mario i DID set up an account for s1. but still couldnt get past activation codes phase.
sorry cos i would love to test s1.
just a way out there question...not meant to irk you...but...upon import of the bb file
did you check time sig was set to 5/4 ?
OR lets say you save a blank song project in s1 in advance..set to 5/4...then open it up and import bb file...does it now show 4/4 say and not 5/4. ?
i have to as i said in rb be carefull and ensure after import 5/4 is set in rb.
ok...all...i tried another daw...waveform free...whats interesting is in waveform tracks view once i imported the bb midi and set time sig to 5/4...all seemed copacetic...
i got 5 per bar cel divisions like reaps and rb.
this is all very strange...and i'm wondering if the anomoly with time sigs is daw dependent. hopefully we all can figure this problem of OT's together and as notes
mentioned a 'hack' or workaround....
i'm gonna see if i can try trials of other daws as time permits.
ADDENDUM.
well i tried to get trials of some big name daws...but jeesh...what ya gotta go thru to get a free
trial. its draining on a person.
so maybe other pg users can try the 5/4 test in their own fav daws.
i'm beat...lol.
happiness to all....and i appreciate the help and comments.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/28/24 12:36 PM.
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om, yes I set both RB and S1 to 5/4 prior to importing the MIDI file. In S1 when I changed the time signature to 4/4 is when the MIDI file lined up with the measures.
It is very interesting that "ok...all...i tried another daw...waveform free...whats interesting is in waveform tracks view once i imported the bb midi and set time sig to 5/4...all seemed copacetic...
i got 5 per bar cel divisions like reaps and rb.". It looks like Waveform uses cells like BiaB. Does Reaper use cells also? S1 doesn't use cells, only measures, so maybe that is the difference. Or are you saying that cells are measures. Note that BiaB only uses cells as measures in 3/4 or 4/4 for exportation.
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mario.
hi...to clarify i mean 5 cels within a bar. which reaps and rb show once set to 5/4.
such fun...lol...i'm haveing a daw test marathon.
currently dloading samplitude music studio.
no account set ups...just dload free trial.
will report back on samp.
btw i tried your midieditor.org...there is a button at top to set time sig but haveing trouble getting it to work.
nice little freebie though.
i think your comment re cels might be correct....maybe s1 does things differently.
remember roland and yamaha midi gear years ago had different interpretation of the midi spec ?
i'm wondering if same is occurring here per notes points.
ps...looking at the features in samplitude music studio and the cheap price its impressive.
gonna see if i can try mixcraft next if trial isnt too difficult to get.
respect and happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/28/24 01:02 PM.
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ALL.
UPDATE.
ok just tried samplitude studio..trial and once i imported 5/4 midi
and set sst to 5/4....
like reaps and rb and waveform free.......5 cel divisions per bar showed in the sst midi editor.
actually sst is pretty impressive with a ton of features...boggles ones mind.
and the way magix has done the trial approach is pretty clever.
update.
just tried mixcraft..lovely simple trial. too many features to list.
once again on import of 5/4 and setting mixcraft to 5/4.
got 5 cel divisions once again...
IN SUMMARY....the daws so far that seem to work and show 5 cell divisions per bar for 5/4 OTS are...
..reaps
..rb
..waveform free
..samplitude music studio
..mixcraft.
ps to mario. please confirm something re s1 ...i assume you have the option in s1
timeline to show cel divisions in a bar or time ie...>> hh/mm/ss ?
happiness to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/28/24 02:20 PM.
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Gordon
I was talking about when I use a 5/4 style (unless that has changed)
I should have been clearer ... Implying that BiaB uses different methods to get odd tempos depending on context. Speaking as a software designer amongst many things, that sounds like a recipe for problems. 
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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All. (please see my previous post re daws i tested that displayed the 5 cels in a bar for a 5/4 OTS.) as ive just had my supper and my belly is full...lol..just want to mention some aspects... 1. the daw trials i tried today exhibited huge numbers of impressive features. amazing actually...but... 2. i find lots of modern daws employ the use of loads of icons....and often i found myself what i call 'icon hunting' as in how do i change the timeline from hh/mm/ss times to cel divisions within the bar and where do i set the time signature. fantastic daw features...but often i found myself searching for a feature. 3..I KNOW people here prolly think i have a rb bias...but honestly i dont. two of my fav apps are reaps v2 and rb. why you might ask ? the answer is simple...i find they are simpler daw environments for me to create in. i'm a simple soul you see...and apps with loads of icons i find difficult to use. maybe its my vision impairment (now improved somewhat by the brilliant eye surgeons)..we are all different. let me say again the daw trials i tried today were choc full of very impressive features. maybe i'm a 'dumb A' lol... anyway upshot is ive found several daws (see my last post) that produce expected 5/4 results looking at their 5/4 bar divisions. i would love to hear from ableton, pro tools, cubase and users of other daws if they have probs re odd time sigs. (OTS). also it would be interesting if logic pro works ok importing 5/4 files from bb. now i'm gonna goof off...lol. ps...mario..i dont know if this helps re setting s1 to bars and divisions of such instead of time.? for example in reaps i can set timeline to hh/mm/ss OR bars and bar divisions. mario i googled 'studio one viewing timeline in bars'....link below. s1 offers obviously a plethora of features. https://pcaudiolabs.com/how-to-use-the-grid-in-studio-one/happiness to all. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/28/24 03:48 PM.
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............................................ ps...mario..i dont know if this helps re setting s1 to bars and divisions of such instead of time.? for example in reaps i can set timeline to hh/mm/ss OR bars and bar divisions. mario i googled 'studio one viewing timeline in bars'....link below. s1 offers obviously a plethora of features. https://pcaudiolabs.com/how-to-use-the-grid-in-studio-one/happiness to all. om I have mine set to bars and bar divisions. I have the hh/mm/ss set in the lower S1 taskbar, thus I have both showing simultaneously. Yes Studio One Pro has a "plethora of features". I use a lot of them but not all of them. And much like BiaB I learn something new every time I use it!
Inflation is so bad that CEOs are now playing miniature golf!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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mario thanks....i wonder if its some s1 setting somewhere ? ALL....HERES A SURPRISE...NO BRAINER. ok heres a lesson in letting a user get a trial easy and be up and running fast. from the moment i went to the web site...dloaded the trial...installed... and imported the 5/4 bb file into the daw took at max a few minutes. versus other products where it took a looong time to get the trial imho. i'm highly impressed also how far this daw has come since last i checked.. very easy to use with a low learning curve. just flawless. https://www.multitrackstudio.com/download.phpif anyone doubts me...see for yourself....the ease of install and its ease of use. like rb and reaps v2 it has hidden depths. after install import the 5/4 bb file and set the project to 5/4 and 140 bpm. magnifico... bottom line...the midi editor shows 5 cel divisions per bar... ie what is expected. like other tested daws upthread. seriously take the test lite version for a spin. in conclusion mts imho is a winner. i was very surprised. imho bb or rb with this...one could do a hit record with. this is one elegant kiss concept daw....SERIOUSLY. LOVED IT....it may not have the razzamatazz of some daws... but wow is all i can say. just my opinions...AND NO...for those sceptics out there... i have no links to MTS whatsover. particularly for someone new to music production MTS would be grrrreat. THIS IS DAW DONE RIGHT IMHO...I WAS SMILING LIKE CRAZEEEEEEEE...lol. happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/28/24 06:00 PM.
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Multitrack Studio is good stuff. Been around a long time An old 'Mac' link from when we worked audiominds .. UI tells how old it was http://audiominds.com/recording_software.html <grin>
Last edited by rharv; 07/28/24 06:58 PM.
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Rharv.
re MTS...what a great daw. i agree good stuff.
a breeze to get the trial versus some trials where it consumes lots of time to get a trial...
ie account creation...etc etc...sigh.
theres gotta be a better way while protecting a company ip.
MTS was a breeze just like reaps trial.
heres another.
i just tried PODIUM free daw.
like MTS a breeze to try it....and lots of nice user features.
also like MTS not bloated..small exe.
lets get to the meat.
i dropped in the bb genned 5/4 140 bpm like with the other daws
no probs...opened editor...cel divisions were as expected...5 divisions
in a bar.
congrats to podium....only played with it a little...but another interesting daw option.
lots of good user features etc....like MTS i would suggest someone new to music production useing this with bb or rb generating the session musician tracks would have
fun. i mean i love rb/bb/ptw/reaps for their depth of features...but the freebie daws
are nothing to sneeze at imho.
I REALLY WISH SOME APPLE USERS WOULD RUN A 5/4 140 bpm test importing
from bb mission1 style demo.
(Rob Helms...you have an apple ...right ? if your reading this...any chance you could check if you get in gband or logic 5 cel divisions per bar for a 5/4 song.)
what confuses me rharv is why i can get 5 cel divisions in rb for a 5/4 file but not
in bb....comparing piano rolls. any bb workaround ?
respect and happiness rharv.
om
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what confuses me rharv is why i can get 5 cel divisions in rb for a 5/4 file but not
in bb....comparing piano rolls. any bb workaround ? That is what I said earlier; the Delphi code working example exists in house written and implemented in RB .. and I guess since you get it for free with BiaB maybe they figure if you like to work like that we already gave you RB . dunno I just move on to RB when BiaB can't do what I need.
Last edited by rharv; 07/29/24 02:33 PM.
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Rharv.
hmmm...i wonder why ?
as you say the programming code is in rb so why not bb ?
actually going through all these daws has given me even more
respect for rb and its uniqueness.
it baffles me why some people knock rb...cos thru my testing various daws
...none of them do what rb does.
lots of snazzy daws out there but also i'm finding daws
with just too many icons to figure out from a user perspective.
i'm not exactly the dimmest bulb on the tree ...but in some daws i felt
overwhelmed by all the icons the programmers have used plus the size of
the executables. by comparison...like reaps daw the MTS and Podium daws impress
me how they do so much within lean *exe's.
fyi...ive got a fanless 140 buck hold in your hand mini pc here i'm testing out.
great for the net as i dont want to use my production ry pc for that.
lousy single thread score for music production...but for s's and giggles
i'm also testing these daws out on it.
MTS and Podium surprised me...obviously cos they are clever lean
daws like reaps....and come up fast.
the fanless would be ok for low track and plug in counts...
ie song scratchpad kinda idea... but my production new mini pc
blows it away...but of course that one is 3 times the price.
one thing going thru my mind is how apple (much as i love their new m processors)
is gonna compete once these fanless 140 buckers have 3 or 4 ghz cpu's in a few years
and thus blow the doors off for music production at a cheap
under 150 buck price.
fyi i think things might be playing out as follows...
critique my logic..
1. apple dropped intel cpu's. thus big loss of biz for intel.
2. intel responds with cheap powerfull processors for cheap under 200 buck
mini pc's in response to replace the lost revenue stream.
tech wars...lol.
the thinking being that apple macs tho' grrreat are also not exactly affordeable for many poor musos around the world.
gonna be an interesting few years.
fyi was hoping to try pro tools in the spirit of being unbiased...but...my goodness its so difficult to get a trial versus the ease of reaps or mts or podium daws trials..
ive now given up twice....lots of steps to go thru to try trial like some other daws.
i like the way pg do it...they protect their ip...while...at the same time makeing it easy for users.
respect and happiness.
om
ps...just tried briefly the mulab daw trial...mission1 5/4 works in this too.
5 cel divisions per bar.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/29/24 04:59 PM.
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.................................
om
ps...just tried briefly the mulab daw trial...mission1 5/4 works in this too.
5 cel divisions per bar. Are you saying that a BiaB 5/4 song dragged and dropped into those DAW actually had 5 beats per measure and the BiaB file played perfectly with it?
Inflation is so bad that CEOs are now playing miniature golf!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Mario. dunno what i can say more. just do your own testing with various daw trials if you doubt me. eg ... 1..export pg mission1 song. 2..set host daw to 5/4 140 bpm....etc etc. MTStudio is great for fast trialling...only takes a few mins to dload and open up. note...the only daw editor or piano roll i could not get 5 cels in a bar was bb. all the rest rb/reaps/mtstudio/podium etc etc no probs. as i'm tired thats it for me re testing. cant test every daw of course takes too much time. frankly i gave up on some daw trials as i said because of taking too much effort to get the trial. after ease of use of getting MTStudio and podium trials i thought why cant others make it easy to do daw trials. for example mts gives you 3 tracks to test out. i'm not sure gotta check but mts has a generous inexpensive upgrade policy as do others like reaps. magix samplitude impressed me how they approached the trials aspect. but some of the daws took some time to dload as they include lots of content and plugins etc etc...so to be fair they are larger programs because of this. re setting s1 time sigs to help you ive been looking on the net... i assume you know this as an example... https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?t=42994there are also vids on you tube re the s1 time sigs topic. from my research it looks like s1 is very capable re time sigs and changeing time sigs in a song. thus i'm puzzled....when i have time will try and get s1 trial again. it seems that s1 has both a time sig and tempo track....?? happiness. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/30/24 04:31 AM.
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I would love to test Logic, but my Mac is too old to download it. I don't really like GB. I use Reaper on Mac.
Lenovo Win 10 16 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2024, Realband, Reaper, Harrison Mixbus 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app, Komplete 49 key controller.
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Mario.
dunno what i can say more.
just do your own testing with various daw trials if you doubt me.
.........................
om Sorry om I didn't mean to upset you. I'm just confused over the word cels. I understand that cell means one measure so is cel a beat? I can't find the word cel anywhere. Again if I upset you I am sorry. That was not my intention.
Inflation is so bad that CEOs are now playing miniature golf!
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Mario.
as notes said...various people have various interpretations i guess.
let me say upfront i always have been lousy at music theory.
if you asked me to put pen to manuscript paper old skool...not me.
i do songs differently.
so heres my take....depending on time sig numerator.
4 = 4 cel graphic divisions
6 = 6 ditto
12 = 12 ditto.
i just tested in rb...all good.
for you i will try once more today s1 trial and go thru the many steps.
because i want to try it anyway in the spirit of being unbiased.
fyi...the daws i'm gonna test out further are mts, podium and maybe waveform free.
the first 2 cos of price/performance and waveform free...cos it works on rasp pi.
Rob Helms.
re MTStudio...there is a version for mac...maybe try the demo ?
am curious what you think. even runs here on junky pc.
only takes a few mins to dload and install. i was very impressed. like reaps a daw done right
imho.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/30/24 06:42 AM.
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video - Band-in-a-Box® DAW Plugin Version 6 for Mac®: New Features for Reaper
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® - Update Today!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 for Mac® Video - Over 50 New Features and Enhancements!
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