PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic DISCUSSION >> ODD TIME SIGNATURES.

Hmmm, I'm reluctant to even mention this, "Money" was written 51 years ago. How time flies...

om, after moving around 75 pound (34Kg) paving stones I got real tired so I came in and looked at some of my VSTis. I noticed that I have a number of them from Sonivox I have used in a number of my songs. They all will run on an i5. They all cost $20 USD and have a try for free demo option. I use the Taylor Acoustic Guitar a lot. There may be some here that you will like.

Blue Jay Drums
Bright Electric Guitar
Session Drums 1
Silk Road Precision
Taylor Acoustic Guitar

I have to run now so I didn't get to see how heavy the CPU hit was on these.

When time permits I will keep looking.

PS - As you probably have noticed most of my instruments come from the full version o Kontakt. This has put a limit on my other VSTi purchases and most of them have been over $50 USD. BUT there is another thread on free Kontakt Player instruments; the Kontakt player is also free.

I found it:

https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=745002#Post745002

Mario.

thanks for the sonivox mention .

just fyi i started a series of tips in tips forum related
to plugins that i tested that work in rb.
mainly because there seemed to be no resource on pg
relating to such for new users to doing songs who might be baffled by it all.
in summary a sorta starter pac of vst's/vsti that work
in rb.
at the same time i felt i wanted to explore vst's more
as i typically use pg content only in a song.

so i think i will wrap up the vst/vsti thread in tips
with maybe a couple of more vsti ive tested in rb.
and...as there are just sooo many plugins...in the wrap
up include that paj link with a cornucopia of plugins
as well as your suggestions....because...obviously i dont have
unlimited time as i'm doing my own projects.

frankly its like a huge forest of plugins....lol.

i was trying to focus in the tips thread on low resource
plugins as i'm sure some new users might not have the
most powerfull pc's. and a problem ive seen in the past is people
ive helped often blame the music app when i n fact sometimes
its the old pc that doesnt have the 'grunt' if large
track and plugin counts are trying to be done by a user.

i hope i make some sense.
feel free to critique.

frankly if i could make a suggestion...it might be nice for
new users if occasionally...maybe each quarter... pg posted a 'sticky' re vst
and vst's that have been verified to work nicely in both
bb/rb. i know its difficult to do such...but...
maybe the sticky could include the caveat that obviously
...as the plugin landscape is so vast...not every free
and paid plugin can be tested.
i was going to suggest maybe...if pg have the time..
maybe 5 new vst fx and 5 new vsti low resource useage ones each quarter.
and the sticky updated.

maybe also input requested from users also as to which plugins
work well....which would be added to the sticky list ?

hope above makes sense ? its just that from my experiences
helping people new to doing songs over the years that often
they are baffled by plugins.

anyhoo tell me if i make sense....what is amazeing is ive been doing loads of
googling and often some plugins on paj's list didnt come up.

ps...over the coming weeks i'm gonna delve more into yours
and paj's world of plugins....many thanks.



happiness.

om

The older I get, the faster it goes

Yes, I totally agree. That's my problem too

Mario.

fyi i tried to get the s1 trial again to test out odds...
but its such a process...sigh.
i would have liked to test out s1 as it has some very interesting recent feature
additions.
apparently they used to offer a free to use versions a few years back ??

your probably aware of this but i came across this s1
vid re time sigs....includeing use of macros.



sorry if its no help.

for anyone reading this i use reaps version way back v2
cos it does all i need with rb.
so far with my testing it seems to do 5/4 fine.

rharv.

ive never done this but in rb can you mix easily
OTS in a song ? eg transition from 5/4 to 6/8 and back again ?
or will things go weird ? it seems you can ?
also ive been looking at changeing from 4/4 to 5/4
and even my ry 7 pc it seems that rb stretching the audio takes
quite a bit of time...i guess because of audio file
consolidation ? which leads me to ask is this process of
invoking time stretching many tracks slow on other daws also ?
or am i wrong ?

happiness.

om

0m, yes "frankly its like a huge forest of plugins"!

Maybe you should suggest that a "What Plugins Work in RealBand" thread in the Realband forum where users could list plugins that they are using. Plus the could list what OS and CPU they are using.That might save you a lot of time plus help you and others whom use RB.

Thanx om. I have used time signature changes but I didn't know about the macro. I rarely use time signature changes but when I do I just insert them, i.e. no need for a macro.

Don't forget Jethro Tull's “Living In The Past”, Zeppelin's “Four Sticks”, and not rock, “Mars” from Gustav Holst's “The Planets”.

I would think the most popular one would be either “Take Five” or “Mission Impossible”, since they crossed genres and were heard by pretty much everybody.

Notes ♫

PS. But then 3/4 is definitely odd (not even) so there are thousands of contenders there.

Mario.

re threads re users contributing plugins that work
in rb (and bb)

i agree re haveing users contribute to a thread re plugins that work in rb.
imho there should be the same thread for bb...
ie plugins that work in bb.
the problem is if the above arent threads that are made 'stickies' a lot of info
is lost for newbies because the threads will disappear into 'the abyss'.
but hey its worth a try adding to the wishlist.
which i'll do now plus in bb and rb forums start threads
asking for user contribs re plugins that work in bb and rb.

hopefully such ideas will work so as to help new users...
we shall see. good idea. hopefully pg people read this.

happiness.

om

OM, in regards to my experience in RB;
I generate the tracks in the odd times (switching to even and back to odd without issue).
I think the key is I generate the tracks after the time changes are established, not before.
Therefore there is no 'stretching' beyond the normal generation process..
RB will then just (for example) generate a 4/4 and 3/4 phrase in the song to equal the 7/4 (or whatever), and the user never knows.
After that the generated AUDIO is handled as 7/4 for editing etc.
This is even if the generated track is a 4/4 style; it simply drops a beat (unless you make a part marker that triggers it to generate a lead-in etc.) It can't create what never existed so it figures out how to accomplish the task by simply making sure the '1' happens when it should.
I *think Jeff actually posted this info once a while back.

/maths; it isn't hard at all for computers

Rharv.

that is a wonderfull superb tip....

might be good to add to the tips or rb forum as a sticky by pg ??

you see this i feel is a good example for new users whereby clarity should be
made and is needed. otherwise they might get frustrated being new to rb and call it c**p .
my concern being if new people dont know this stuff negative comments might ensue.
its another argument i would posit whereby more advanced vids are needed for rb.

even though ive used rb tons ...i'm stupid that i didnt think about that tip.
walk the plank om...lol.

respect and happiness.

om

om, I just received this via email this morning:

https://somervillesounds.com/the-antiquarian-echo/

It is pads made from guitars. I didn't DL it as I have a ton of pads but you may be interested in this free one. It will run on a i5 however it is VST3.

Mario/ALL.

Mario...thanks for the vst link suggestion...your a peach.
fyi i'm gonna wrap up my thread re plugins that work
in rb in the tips forum. of course in the wrap up i will attribute
plugin ideas and links also youve suggested to you of course.

i just wanted a nice plugins thread in the tips forum
to offer a 'starter pac' for new users that might be
looking for a series of tested plugins....and to help them..
as over the years ive come across so many people not
just baffled when they get into music but also befuddled
often re plugins.

imho the 'starter pac' in conjunction with sforzando
and synthmaster pg includes...if one cant do a record that
knocks the music consumers socks off with that lot they wont with anything.
its way way more than people had in studio outboard gear
years ago whereby hits were done.
i marvel at what they had in the 60's in studios in the uk
and elsewhere and what they wrung outta the gear according
to people ive met in my travels and had a pint with.
pure inventiveness back then.

i'm sorta on a kick right now to learn more about OTS
as well as broaden the instruments one might use in
ones songs...a reason i suggested in pg wishlist the
harpsichord used in past hits.
we need a thread imho about what 'odd' added instrument rt's
and midi are needed in pg content. the harpsichord being one example.
maybe more baroque offerings ?
ie what other rt's//midi might be neat for OTS songs ?

once again mario thanks for all the help.
that aegean is superb.

as to vst3 i gotta wait of course till in bb/rb.
but i'm sorta 'hot to trot' about this new clap
(what a name...lol.) plugin standard that is getting
traction from various daws ?

heres a link about it for anyone interested...

as your a plugin guru you might find it of interest..

https://cleveraudio.org/

above lists developers....includeing some big names i wasnt aware of.

https://cleveraudio.org/the-story-and-mission/

above is philosophy.....very very interesting.

i can see it now...lol...its gonna be like when people
had to rebuy the white album when cd's came out.
people will need to rebuy their plugins if it gets
traction ?..dunno. certainly very interesting
technical approach. the fact that reaps already supports
it i find interesting.

one daw i really wanted to check out was Pro Tools
via their free first version trial....to see how it handles OTS.
i wanted to give it a fair shake re OTS and also test it out
as its been awhile since i last checked it out.
but the number of steps to get the trial i found just too much.
and also this put me off...

https://homestudiogenie.com/use-pro-tools-without-ilok/

as i said i think MTStudio have got it right.
dload and install in a few minutes and give one a couple
of tracks to test out features.
(also pg have got it right imho. people want to do songs
and not worry about other things.)
however i got to say PT features look very very nice.
i would have liked to give it a fair shake re OTS etc.

happiness.

om

UPDATE...re my OTS travels
(or should i say my travails...lol.).

well ive learnt a lot doing ots.
couple of things...

..i'm useing an all midi style (in this case mission 1)..sooo i can move bits of track around fast in rb
to test out various arrangements viz what one hears in ones head. its a trick i used to do in powertracks years ago so as to show studio session musos a rough guide for a song.
like powertracks midi is very strong in rb.

..i 'know' people knock coyote included free by pg...
because of cheesy sounds...but actually in this case as its so 'lightweight' its quite a blessing as it doesnt get in my way re working fast.
also heres whats highly interesting...ive come across a super 'piccolo' sound from coyote that seems to fitthe song to a T as to sound picture...
and ive found nothing to better it so far.
i know its a synthesised sound but it just fits this what i think will end up as a rather jazzy song.

..my biggest challenge is still finding RT's that fit the 5/4 vibe. thus i really hope that pg indicate in their content which RT's might fit a common OTS like 5/4...
and other common OTS. because its hours and hours of work
trying to locate and 'FIT' a RT via crafty editing to the OTS.
the basic instrumentation ive decided on for the song are jazzy drums (thank you rb for finding those as substitutions.)
plus jazzy piano plus a funky bass and also some synth.
(already got synth driven by midi)...and of course the cute piccolo provided by coyote. i also need a lead soloist and rhythm...maybe gtr..RT's.
in summary piano/soloist instrument/rhythm gtr RT still needed.

..i tried Gordons great idea of looking at waltz RT's but so far
not much has twigged me....also..still lots of crafty editing is needed.

TBH this is the sort of difficult song i would probably in the past have taken into a studio with session musos after giving them a rough guide done in bb/rb to save expensive studio time.

to wrap up...i hear this as a jazzy crooner type song..
somewhat like my pretty girl song in my sig...
not my typical hard rock song like the stallion in my sig....lmao.

i would be really really gratefull if anyone could point me to RT's i can shape into a 5/4 song.
this 5/4 song is a huge challenge.
also if pg want to chime in...feel free.
particularly re jazzy rhythm piano, soloists eg sax ?
or maybe soloists scatting with each other ?
ie different rt's like jazz guitar and sax and piano
riffing in their own time space ?

as i said big challenge. but if i fall flat on my face..
so be it...ive learnt a load about OTS.

happiness.

om

om, I have found the best way to play OTS is to take what BiaB MIDI gives you, with the tracks you want to keep replace the GM sounds with better sounds, the record your parts, both the tracks you want replaced and any additional tracks, usually the lead tracks. YMMV

Mario.

thats exactly what ive been doing.
but sadly i miss a ton of nice RT sound pictures in pg content.

its a real conundrum with RT's for OTS....

as weve talked about the pickers ideally need an indication of what RT's might be usefull re common OTS.

actually i might be getting somewhere testing midi supertracks but the prob is they dont have the breadth of instrumentation variety of the RT lib.
in addition useing vsti plugins is another challenge requiring lots of testing of sounds ie samples or sfz for example to find out what fits the song.
this is why your brilliant filmscapes amaze me...because of course your attention to detail in your songs sound pictures.
the only reason i'm doing the song is i stupidly love a challenge outside my comfort zone...lol.

happiness and respect.

om

As do I my friend!

Mario/ALL.

Got OTS working in S1.

your good people mario....sent you a pm but in case you missed it.

heres how to get ots in s1....eg 5/4.

1..import bb midi file.
2..next to time line in arranger on the left youll see a BLOCK.
3..click on it and a menu will come up.
4..select time signature.
5..change from 4/4 to 5/4.
6..to get midi piano roll i clicked on the track graphic under time line....
7..then...once again in s1 piano roll i clicked on block to left of time line and selected time sig from menu.
8..i checked time sig was 5/4. if its not for some reason alter 4/4 to 5/4.
9..maybe there is a better way but the above is what worked for me.
10..and yes i checked with other daws...the notes start in the right places in the s1 piano roll.
11..imho the feature re OTS should be made more overt.
maybe in top menu where the file menu is ?
frankly i am still exploring s1..its very extensive.

hth. overall in my opinion s1 is a very very good daw...with extensive features. the latter though meaning a user new to music production like rb/bb will need to go through quite a learning cycle due to the extensive s1 features.

also...and not to irk anyone as we are all different...like lots of modern daws... extensive use is made of icons...thus one must take the time to learn what each does. however to be fair this is a delicate balance for any developer providing an app with extensive features. in conclusion no easy solution to cut down on the learning cycle....frankly for me i find i like a daw with limited numbers of icons.
maybe its my poor vision...dunno.
Reaper v2 i find a lot easier to navigate around.
but not the extensive feature list of course...but...R2 does everything i need anyway.

let me add...like rb/bb and lots of daw apps to get the best out of s1 a user will really have to try out the various s1 features in order to develop his/her individual work methods.

in closing and to be very fair and unbiased i'm going to explore s1 more....its a very good daw. but its a large daw exe in comparison to others ive tested.
one thing i REALLY REALLY liked in s1 was the ability in arranger view to have seperate time sig/chords/marker etc tracks.
something ive been wanting for a looong time in bb and rb.
i also hope its made easier to get the s1 trial.
for example like multitrackstudio.com fast dload and install... and no need to set up an account to get the trial.
MTS took all of 5 mins total before i was useing it.
the way to protect any daws ip imho is like mtstudio just offer a few tracks in the trial for someone to trial the daw.
particularly as the daw market is sooo competitive....ie setting up accounts etc i'm sure might put some potential buyers off.


happiness.

om

om, this is getting very interesting. I tried the styles mission 1, 5_4 swing, and 5_4 even using both your technique and mine: mine is to click on the time signature icon on the bottom task bar and when I change it to 5/4 it automatically changes it on the main window as well as in the piano roll and notation windows. In each case I did get 5 beats (cells) in the windows, however the BiaB style(s) did not line up correctly, as you can see in the attached pics. They did line up correctly when I changed the time signature to 4/4. Note that I do have the latest version of Studio One Pro.

Would any other Studio One Pro user please try to duplicate both methods and report back with your results? thanx in advance.