PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic DISCUSSION >> ODD TIME SIGNATURES.

Mario.

i'm rather confused.

what are you trying to do ?
sorry not being awkward.

are you trying to mix the two mission one demoes in one s1 arrange screen ?

heres an idea...load up mtstudio...and do the same as your doing in s1...same steps...if the same situation occurs in mtstudio then i would suspect that its just that the two pg demoes are different ?

i would be curious to see two pics whereby both graphics
show 5/4 ots. cos your second one is 4/4.

notice for example your first 5/4 tracks start in cel 9...
after drums...i got same here....are you expecting to start right
at the bar start ie the one ?

is it question of setting s1 as swing in one case ?
and even in tother ?

A SHOT IN THE DARK...

NOTE...at top of s1 arrange window is a Q just right of centre.
if you press Q you can set degree of swing from what i see.
maybe this is a factor ?...maybe a quantisation setting ?

fyi...the bottom of my s1 screen is being cut off and i cant set up s1 window to address this somehow.
i guess cos of my vision problems. ..as i make all bigger.

in summary...process of elimination..if you get same probs re swing/even in other daws...then i suspect a setting issue or just how pg did the demoes ?

happiness.

om

Mario.

please read my previous post first.
the mission style i was useing was even.

so now i created in bb the swing version.
and compared.

once again after drums the swing version started in cell 9.
as before for even.
i set 5/4 of course in arrange and s1 piano roll.

question...at what point are you setting the 5/4 in arrange and piano roll ??...before import or after ?
i would import first and then set the 5/4 in arrange and piano roll.
i'm now gonna go test in mtstudio for s's n giggles.
i tell you the developer of mtstudio did it right for users new to music production cos its easier to get into than many daws ive tested.

hth

om

Mario.

see my previous 2 posts.

i tested in mtsdtudio. same as s1.
for both swing and even 5/4 after drum start in both... the music starts at cell 9.

is this not what you want ??
if not please explain further.

hth

om

om, I may have misread you initial S1 message.
What I am to do is to bring a 5/4 style into S1, set S1 to 5/4, then have all of the measures and beats (cells) line up and play correctly. I read your initial S1 message as you were able to do that. My bad.

The second pic shows that a 5/4 BiaB style does not line up with a S1 5/4 but it does line up with a S1 4/4.

I hope this helps.

{edit} - If the 5/4 BiaB style matched perfectly with S1's 5/4 then the music would start on measure 3, just like it does when I set S1 to 4/4.

Mario.

let me apologise in advance if i'm failing you...
i do songs by 'feel' and am no good at theory...lol.

all i can say is ive imported both 5/4 swing and even into mtstudio plus reaps. and both even and swing perform the same in both daws.

try this...boot up mtstudio and import both files ie even and swing into different tracks. do the graphics look right to you ?
remembering of course to set 5/4 as time sig.
reapeat in reaps v2...its a quick dload and boot up.

please clarify one thing ...are you saying you want the drum beats to line up ? but your not getting that re 5/4 but ARE when switching to 4/4.

i'm very very sorry if i'm not understanding your problem...
and maybe its a more complex issue than i'm understanding.

fyi...sorry but i will now be incommunicado till saturday as i'm doing family stuff.

its all my fault i'm no good at music theory...in theory class i...like every bad lad ...was too enraptured with our new music teacher....lol...we were like obediant puppy dogs...lol.
actually kudos to her...she encouraged me hugely to pursue my desire to write songs.

i would urge you to try 5/4 odd and even in other daws like mtstudio and reaps and see if you get the results you were expecting....if you DO then i would suspect an additional setting needs to be made in s1.
definitely s1 is a very good daw...so it might be a setting.
could triplet feel have anything to do with this ? there is an option in s1
i noticed after pressing the Q icon.


happiness.

om

Mario.

a quickie comment ...here in s1 ... mtstudio...reaps v2....
and rb all show the same for mission 5/4 even or swing.

ie...after drum lead in...band starts at 9 cells in.
in summary all the daws match each other as i would expect.
ie 9 cells in.
could the confusion be the way bb works.
notice the use of the -1 bar in bb.

maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree...but maybe its the way bb exports ?

talk to you tomorrow.

happiness.

om

Mario.

(please see my previous post.)

ok...please could you answer something for me ?
and its at the core of all this.

are you looking for total correlation tween s1 and bb ?
so you can match both screen displays ?
and not have to change your thinking going tween both displays.
eg you have two monitors...
one displaying the OTS in bb and one displaying the OTS in s1 ?
so you want both to look the same on both monitors ideally ? am i correct that the ONLY WAY to get this is to set s1 display to 4/4 ????
and now things match up tween both monitors display wise ?
do you use 2 monitors ? one for s1 and one for bb ?

if i'm correct re the above then its an unsolveable conundrum i suggest....let me explain...

..how i see if a daw has a problem i do the same test in multiple daws. IF all daws match cept one then the one daw that doesnt match i assume has an issue.

..in this case irrespective of 5/4 swing or even...
(all daws set to 5/4) ive found all daws ie...s1 and reaps and mtstudio match. ie...if there were 3 different pcmonitors from what i see all screens would match.
HOWEVER...

..we know that bb handles OTS differently ie...useing a 4/4 paradigm. i'm not trying to be unkind to pg.
i might be wrong...but i suspect its to do with the way the coding has evolved over time. so OTS handling had to be'fitted' into the existing bb 4/4 paradigm ?
only pg can answer this.

..as we know bb is the ONLY daw that does auto accompany...
also notice that when the OTS is imported into s1 it starts at 1 and not -1 like the bb new tracks window.
(another likkle 'wrinkle'.)

given the above i can only conclude its not the fault of s1 that the only way to achieve correlation with bb is to set s1 to 4/4. (how bb works.).
why i'm saying this is all other daws handle OTS odd or even the same way ! ie they match.
(note rb allows for the bb -1 lead in on import of bb song file.)

in conclusion mate i dont think there is a perfect solution.
maybe i'm out to lunch but i feel its a 'perfect conundrum'.
(like many in life eg schroedinger.)

thus i can only suggest you set s1 to 4/4 ?
i see no other way. basically s1 is doing all correctly from what i see as it matches all the other daws.
(i did further tests last night with the various daws.)

am i makeing sense ?? i sincerely hope so.
the only solution i see is if bb were to implement the same
OTS handling methods as the other daws.
but maybe this is difficult due to the auto accompany features the other daws dont have.

as i said a conundrum with no perfect solution.
its just the life of a music app user...lol.
we just have to live with certain things.

ps...can s1 bar settings be set to -1 start lead in ?
addendum....re -1 it looks like s1 will do this...
(but the trial it doesnt look i can try mario.)
ie...in s1...Menu Song > Song Setup > Bar Offset > -1 > hit Apply.
as the bb OTS start at -1
would this help ?? matching in both apps ?

actually thinking about it mario try a bar offset in s1 of -2 ?
do things now match better ?....because in bb with -1 at start
there are 2 bars before the band tracks come in.
ie -1 and 0....see what i mean ?
SO...to match with bb deduct 2 in s1 off the bar 3 band start in s1...gives you band coming in at 1 like bb ??
see what i mean ?? does the offset offer better matching ??
man this is complex...lol.

ps...and maybe rharv can jump on this...what i find interesting is i understood from posts on these fora...but maybe i'm wrong.. that rb used the same back end 'code engine' as bb. so how come rb handles 5/4 differently to bb ?
i'm baffled on this point....as i said the whole thing is very complex....
i would love to hear how mac people handle OTS songs from bb
and if they have to set offset to -2 ? i thought i saw something on the net related to this...eg logic pro on mac re midi imported from other music apps ??



happiness.

om

om, there is a compatibility problem between S1 and BiaB when it comes to OTS. All of BiaB styles come over to S1 as 3/4 or 4/4, thus making it impossible to add other OTS software. It appears to be a S1 problem.

You really don't have to investigate any more if you don't want. It always has been and still is a compatibility problem between the two companies.

Thanx for all of your efforts, you went way above and beyond with your investigations and I really appreciate it.

Mario.

ok...i agree....thanks.

the whole OTS topic is very very complex.

i gave it the old college try out of respect...
and your superb soundscapes.

its a pity we havent heard from mac users as to how
they handle the OTS topic and the interplay between
bb and their daws like logic pro.
ie do they face any of the same issues...oh well.


happiness.

om