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would anyone be kind enough and i do thank you if you choose to do so
link something done on BIAB NOT with uncompressed AIFFS ( AUDIOPHILE Pkg )
so that i can get an idea how the sound quality is?
i have read the threads but would appreciate a user who is using the ULTRAPAK with the compressed files
not the uncompressed files and publishes their work on e.g SOUNDCLOUD
thanks so much as im ready to put my money down and if there is really no significant difference I would be grateful to hear this for myself
GL
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GML.
i'm a regular upak non audiophile user.
listen to the songs in my sig below.
please use decent earbuds instead of dollar cheapies..
you can post back a song review if you wish ...be as brutal as you wish...lol.
ive had more than a few likes//bells//comments.
happiness.
om
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Whatever gets posted so a comparison can be made, must be posted on a site that does not compress the files. I thought SoundCloud does compress submissions? You said you read the threads. Did that include an article I wrote, here? https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=378939#Post378939
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I’ve purchased the audiophile version in the past. I do not anymore. I use the UltraPak For my work (performance quality backing tracks) it makes zero difference. I spent some time comparing the Ultra Pak with audiophile on everything from phones and tablets, to pa speakers to $5000/pair studio monitors. The tracks (audiophile and ultra )were basically the same with each speaker. Here’s a link to a CD i put together 4 or 5 years ago. Only the guitar is recorded audio. All the accompaniment is BIAB real tracks using ultraPak. https://on.soundcloud.com/Y52jDeJnL68HthCv9I can’t remember whether I uploaded .wav files or 320kbps MP3’s to soundcloud I have no Idea how SoundCloud processes the audio
Last edited by mrgeeze; 07/26/24 04:59 AM.
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Mrgeeze, if you update prior versions like most of us do, then whatever WAV files you have from the earlier audiophile version(s) are still there. BIAB uses WAV files first if it finds them. Your productions may contain a mix of WAV and WMA.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Thanks Matt.
My personal audiophile version was a few years back when I ran both windows and Mac OS.
My recent testing was performed on 2 separate machines with a friend who has the audiophile version
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I find Mr Matt Finley's archived contribution that's linked to this post to be exceedingly useful on a practical, technical standpoint.
However, I say that I myself find myself to be highly annoyed with the question itself every time it surfaces on the forum, because as a dyed in the wool audiophile with perfect hearing and immaculate taste, I simply cannot comprehend the lack of self-respect that would come from groveling in the dirt with pigs.
Asking whether some cheap bargain basement variety of an audio file is that the same caliber as the audiophile version is like asking what is the better choice at University, Cambridge, or any good school at Oxford, or Pink Hill Community College in Redneck County?
Or what is the more suitable beverage? Real Champagne from France, or bubbling sewage water from the local tap? Or what is the better musical choice for an evening of listening? Live tickets to the London Philharmonic, or some squalid bohemian evening sitting on some vinyl couch listening to Spotify?
You shock and offend the delicate sensibilities of the true audiophile by even raising the question.
It is a horror.
Any true audiophile knows that it has nothing to do with the sound itself, and everything to do with the absolute obstinate personality that refuses to compromise its dignity and roll around on the ground with common grunts!
There! Steady on man and choose your crowd before it chooses you!!
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David, I resent being compared to pigs!
(Kidding). Thanks for the kind words about my notes.
I actually had a membership card in 1970 for some semi-official semi-pretentious Society of Audiophiles. I think I passed their written test (which says nothing about my hearing).
I wear hearing aides now to give me back some high frequency, but even without them I can hear the difference in a song prepared with WMA versus WAV files. I have even stumped several audio engineers with what I could hear.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Any true audiophile knows that it has nothing to do with the sound itself... ... It's how much you paid for the pure copper cables that connect your record player to the speakers. 
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Interesting that BIAB standard wma files (bit rate) are below where people listen these days, but the audiophile 16bit 44.1k is above where most people listen these days. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/0249qFkg/Sample-Rates-BIAB.jpg) The times they are a changing.
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What is this WMA format you speak of?
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david...
you jest sir ??....lol.
i wont take it back,
im lovin that flac.
done a ton of tracks.
man in the street cant tell the diff.
now im gonna go riff.
happiness
ps...all songs in my sig were done useing normal non audiophile upak.
ive found people like or hate a song ie normal persons in the street.
they dont care if song was done with el cheapo cables...lol.
om. 🇨🇦. 🇬🇧
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 07/26/24 11:33 AM.
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I don't mix for the normal person on the street and I don't know any audio engineer who would. As long as there are people who do know the difference, I will mix for them.
As to that chart, I've commented on it before. Listing BIAB 'Standard' at a bit rate of 128 is, I believe, misleading. Yes, some of the WMA files are 128, some actually lower, but WMA compression of 128 sounds better than an MP3 of 128. In some rudimentary tests I did years ago when I wrote that article about the differences between the regular (standard) and audiophile versions, I thought the WMA files sounded closer to a quality comparable to 198. Perhaps others could comment.
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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I agree, Matt.
I find the Windows WMA files better to listen to than MP3s.
When I write my songs, I always use the 'Ultrapak' version of BIAB because it is on my computer and this is how BIAB Audiophile version installs the program.
Then, when I want to create a final production, I work with the WAV files on the USB drive.
I can hear a difference between WMA and WAV with most instruments.
Because I'm getting old now, though, my ability to hear top end frequencies is fading, these days the difference between the two file-types is less noticeable than it used to be.
I always upload the Audiophile-derived end result to Soundcloud.
The upload is then automatically compressed to 256kbs AAC (~320 kbs mp3) as high quality streaming format (as far as I understand).
--Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Google results have some disgruntled people complaining that SoundCloud compresses all the way to 128.
Note: the OP (who has not yet returned) didn’t specify SoundCloud; I did. My point was that to compare fairly, demos of a BIAB song must be posted somewhere they won’t be compressed (and that’s not SoundCloud).
BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors
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Many moons ago, I ran extensive listening tests, comparing the different MP3 compression standards to the CDs I was ripping (44.1K/ 16 bit). I could hear slight differences between 192K .mp3 and CD .wav. Rates below 192K were obvious. 128K was terrible. 320K sounded like the CD to my ears. The only difference between 256K and 320K that I could hear was on a high-end home theater system with a really good subwoofer The 256K rips lost just a touch of really low end definition, but I really had to listen for it. On the other audio systems I tested on, the 256K rips sounded like the CD. Since there was a major file size increase between 256K and 320K, I ripped everything at 256K. With today's huge external SSDs, I'd have used 320K. But for streaming, I don't think anything over 256K would justify the increase in data.
Last edited by TheMaartian; 07/27/24 05:45 AM.
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Google results have some disgruntled people complaining that SoundCloud compresses all the way to 128. A couple of years ago that was definitely the case. Nowadays, though, it looks like things are a bit different if a user uploads using a lossless format. This is what they currently have... https://help.soundcloud.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003452847-Uploading-requirements![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=28425&filename=streaming HD from lossless format.jpg)
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Many moons ago, I ran extensive listening tests, comparing the different MP3 compression standards to the CDs I was ripping (44.1K/ 16 bit). I could hear slight differences between 192K .mp3 and CD .wav. Rates below 192K were obvious. 128K was terrible. 320K sounded like the CD to my ears. The only difference between 256K and 320K that I could hear was on a high-end home theater system with a really good subwoofer The 256K rips lost just a touch of really low end definition, but I really had to listen for it. On the other audio systems I tested on, the 256K rips sounded like the CD. Since there was a major file size increase between 256K and 320K, I ripped everything at 256K. With today's huge external SSDs, I'd have used 320K. But for streaming, I don't think anything over 256K would justify the increase in data. I did similar analysis when I started ripping my 1000+ cd collection. Settled on 320kpbs mp3's for phone/pad/car/etc. I quit thinking about the cost of storage 10 years ago. Its been all SSD since then for me. When I started producing tracks for performance I created them using .wav real tracks from biab (UltraPak) into my daw (Logic). I bounced the ouput of the daw project to 320kpbs mp3's. I use those 320kbps mp3's for performance. I use IOS software (Anytune) to play my tracks, build setlists, loopsections,control playback, etc. I own a variety of sound reinforcement gear (QSC, EV, Bose, JBL, Turbosound, etc). I mostly use a modeller (HX Stomp) nowadays vice a conventional guitar amp. The only reactions I've ever gotten on my tracks is people (musicians usually) commenting on the high quality. People have offered to pay me to make tracks for them.
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Like many threads here, you probably got more than you wanted. Did we answer your question?
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I have an Ultrapack and it's true that the tracks created directly by Realtracks, I usually use two to three per song. I work in RealBand and create tracks in wav depending more on harmony than on style, while also creating tracks in midi (I have RealCharts checked). I just create the drums as a midi and split them into separate tracks. And that's the end my work in Realband. I import everything into Studio One and process the drums using Studio One tools. I process the other midi tracks on the Kontakt or Opus module, or some third-party virtual instruments can be run directly without modules. I intervene manually in the midi tracks and make improvements with my ideas according to my own feeling. This kind of bypasses the Audiophile version, which I can no longer afford as a pensioner. However, I consider my recordings on SoundCloud as amateur songs and I do not get paid for them, but it brings me satisfaction. Nevertheless, I do the mixing and mastering at a professional friend's studio.
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Interesting that BIAB standard wma files (bit rate) are below where people listen these days, but the audiophile 16bit 44.1k is above where most people listen these days.
…
The times they are a changing. Trying to figure out how old that chart must be. It certainly is not accurate. Neither iTunes nor Amazon have distributed 256k in years. I keep thinking that, at age 70, I shouldn't hear the difference between Audiophile and Ultra (which I can download at any time). Of course I can.
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Interesting that BIAB standard wma files (bit rate) are below where people listen these days, but the audiophile 16bit 44.1k is above where most people listen these days.
…
The times they are a changing. Trying to figure out how old that chart must be. It certainly is not accurate. Neither iTunes nor Amazon have distributed 256k in years. I keep thinking that, at age 70, I shouldn't hear the difference between Audiophile and Ultra (which I can download at any time). Of course I can. It was made this year. The point of the chart was people on average are listening to a lower quality today than say 20 years ago and BIAB offers a slightly lower and higher quality than what the average user is listening to. Amazon Prime Music streams at a bit rate of up to 256 kbps (lossy compression). High Definition (HD): is 850 kbps. lossless compression. CD = 1411kbs (no compression) Ultra-High Definition (Ultra HD): This offers even higher quality, up to 24-bit/192 kHz, with an average bitrate of 3730 kbps. (lossless compression)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, could you elaborate on why you chose a 128k bit-rate for standard BIAB?
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Matt, if you check the properties of one of the BIAB RT wma files you will see it shows a bit rate of 128K. As you pointed out, this may be a better quality than an MP3 compression at that bit rate. Both compressions are lossy. Sorry, to end this conversation, as I'm very busy for the next couple of weeks, I was just pointing out that most people listen to a quality that's slightly less than what CDs produced in the 90s. That's all. I personally can hear the difference between an isolated wma instrument and a wave instrument in BIAB, but my ears are shot, and I wear hearing aids, as I played in a rock and roll band for many years. When the tracks are mixed with other tracks especially if the tracks are generated with midi super tracks where the instruments are at a higher sample rate, I doubt most people would hear a difference in the final mix. Your milage may vary. 
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, could you elaborate on why you chose a 128k bit-rate for standard BIAB? Interesting. I'd presumed that was 128kbps was the rate BiaB used, but looking around I see quite a few older RealTracks are only 48kbps.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Jeff, could you elaborate on why you chose a 128k bit-rate for standard BIAB? Interesting. I'd presumed that was 128kbps was the rate BiaB used, but looking around I see quite a few older RealTracks are only 48kbps. Anything much lower than 128kbps is likely a mono RT.
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Yes, I was about to say that. And I didn’t find a lot of those many years ago when I spot checked.
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Yes, I was about to say that. And I didn’t find a lot of those many years ago when I spot checked. There are plenty. Basses are almost if not always mono. Probably most wind instruments, electric guitars, and many of the drum stems. Basically anywhere there's no advantage to recording in stereo - might as well make for a smaller download.
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Anything much lower than 128kbps is likely a mono RT. Ah, right. That makes sense, though the ones I've looked at are, yes mono. 48kbps so less than half the bit rate. I expect that makes sense somehow
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Ah, right. That makes sense, though the ones I've looked at are, yes mono. 48kbps so less than half the bit rate. I expect that makes sense somehow Those are probably older ones. These days mono RT's are 64-80kbps, I think using a variable bitrate.
I work here
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Generate Lyrics for your Band-in-a-Box songs with LyricLab!
Need some lyrics to complete your Band-in-a-Box song? LyricLab is here to help!
LyricLab (by Joanne Cooper) is an AI-powered tool designed to quickly create lyrics and chords to fit your music. Just enter a rough idea of your lyrics, and let the AI bring them to life. Once you're happy with the results, simply import the LyricLab file into Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or newer. From there, you can pick your style and generate melodies to match your song’s chords!
Learn more about LyricLab here!
Watch the video.
Band-in-a-Box 2024 Italian for Mac is Here!
Ci siamo dati da fare e abbiamo aggiunto oltre 50 nuove funzionalità e una straordinaria raccolta di nuovi contenuti, tra cui 222 RealTracks, nuovi RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 3, Playable RealDrums Set 2, due nuovi set di "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK 6, Xtra Styles PAK 17 e altro ancora!
Tutti Pacchetti | Nuove Caratteristiche
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 German for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 für Mac Deutsch ist verfügbar!
Wir waren fleißig und haben über 50 neue Funktionen und eine erstaunliche Sammlung neuer Inhalte hinzugefügt, darunter 222 RealTracks, neue RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, "Songs with Vocals" Artist Performance Sets, abspielbare RealTracks Set 3, abspielbare RealDrums Set 2, zwei neue Sets von "RealDrums Stems", XPro Styles PAK & 7, Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, und mehr!
Paket | Was ist Neu
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 French for Mac® is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2024 apporte plus de 50 fonctions nouvelles ainsi qu'une importante de contenus nouveaux à savoir : 222 RealTracks, des RealStyles nouveaux, des SuperTracks MIDI, des Etudes d'Instruments, des Prestations d'Artistes, des "Morceaux avec Choeurs", un Set 3 de Tracks Jouables, un Set 2 de RealDrums Jouables, deux nouveaux Sets de "RealDrums Stems", des Styles XPro PAK 6 & 7, des Xtra Styles PAK 17 & 18, et bien plus encore!
New! XPro Styles PAK 7 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 7 with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 50 RealTracks and RealDrums that are sure to delight!
With XPro Styles PAK 7 you can expect 25 rock & pop, 25 jazz, and 25 country styles, as well as 25 of this year's wildcard genre: Celtic!
Here's a small sampling of what XPro Styles PAK 7 has to offer: energetic rock jigs, New Orleans funk, lilting jazz waltzes, fast Celtic punk, uptempo train beats, gritty grunge, intense jazz rock, groovy EDM, soulful R&B, soft singer-songwriter pop, country blues rock, and many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 7 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box 2024® with XPro Styles PAK 7! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Watch the XPro Styles PAK 7 Overview & Styles Demos video.
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2024 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box 2024 for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 18 for Band-in-a-Box version 2024 is here with 200 brand new styles to take for a spin!
Along with 50 new styles each for the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, we’ve put together a collection of styles using sounds from the SynthMaster plugin!
In this PAK you'll find: dubby reggae grooves, rootsy Americana, LA jazz pop, driving pop rock, mellow electronica, modern jazz fusion, spacey country ballads, Motown shuffles, energetic EDM, and plenty of synth heavy grooves! Xtra Style PAK 18 features these styles and many, many more!
Special Pricing! Until September 30, 2024, all the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 18 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea)! Expand your Band-in-a-Box 2024® library with Xtra Styles PAK 18! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 18 here.
Watch the Xtra Styles PAK 18 Overview & Styles Demos video.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 18 requires the 2024 UltraPAK/UltraPAK+/Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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